Talk:Jesus College, Oxford/Archive 1
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NPOV!
The Student Life secion seems biased.
- 'One result of the size of the college site is that first-year students tend to see a lot of each other and thus form both strong bonds of friendship and a keen sense of college spirit, giving rise to the reputation of Jesus being a friendly college.'
- 'The size' - small? It's not particularly small.
- Students in almost all colleges form strong bonds of friendship.
- Reputation: really?
<<<SEE COMMENT BELOW>>>
- 'recently featuring highly in the academic Norrington Table'
- 13th out of 30 is not high
- 'while the sports teams have often reached the heights of intercollegiate competitions.'
- Really? Perhaps this could be justified on this talk page.
- 'Many undergraduates feature in the music and drama worlds, while others contribute to student journalism for Cherwell or The Oxford Student. One area in which Jesus undergraduates tend not to appear, however, is politics: the college has a well-deserved reputation for apathy when it comes to Oxford Union and OUSU hacking and undergraduates seeking to change that have tended to find the consensus unwilling to budge.'
- These all need justification. This sounds like original research to me...or original experience, at least.
Hugh Price should be mentioned together with his position as Archdeacon of Brecon in the first paragraph. This would set the context for subsequent references to the Welsh connection.----Clive Sweeting 29 AUG 2006-
Hugh Price should be mentioned in the opening paragraph. Mention of his position as Archdeacon of Brecon would help to set the context for the Welsh connections which are subsequently developed---- Clive Sweeting 29 Aug 2006
- According to The Sheepshagger the College Bar has the friendliest bar staff to be found in the University.
- Just no. Not from the college's own informal newsletter.
I will make changes in hours/days to come.
Samgra 09:09, 24 May 2006 (UTC) (Note: I am an Exonian)
- No objections from me. --Mel Etitis (??? ??????) 14:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that some of this section looks iffy. Some can be justified (see below), but there is a need for pruning. The bar staff are indeed great, but this is clearly POV on my part, and I wouldn't try using The Sheepshagger as a citation for anything! Whether 13th of 30 is high or not is also POV; we should state the figure or give a link to the Norrington Table if we think it matters. If this bit was written before the 2005 figures came out, describing 5th of 30 as "featuring highly" would be a bit more justifiable. I think on balance these details are out of place; you wouldn't put last week's scores in an article on Chelsea Football Club!
- --Casper Gutman 00:33, 6 June 2006 (UTC) (Full disclosure: I'm a Jesubite of almost six years' standing)
IT REALLY IS SMALL - the reference is to the physical size of the college. Compared to other Oxford Colleges, Jesus is very small. And since it isn't physically big, it is almost entirely populated by first years (who spill out into Ship Street - the College cannot accommodate a full year group) as post-prelims almost all second/third/fourth years necessarily live in college flats either in Cowley or on the Woodstock Rd, thus the comment here is accurate. The college is small, first years do see a lot of each other, this does form a kind of college spirit and Jesus does have a reputation as a friendly college - it's part of the ganda of oxford tour guides, its mentioned in blurbs about the college in prospectuses, and many Oxford students know Jesus as friendly. Objective evidence of a reputation - perhaps not, but reputations are always subjective. The point being made is that compared to larger colleges, e.g. Christchurch, that year groups are relatively small and live together helps to establish a close-knit friendly atmosphere, where students get to know a higher proportion of their year group than elsewhere. Sorry to go on - your other comments seem fair. TymShepherd 07:13, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
- Citations please? --Mel Etitis (??? ??????) 22:19, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
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- For evidence of the small size of the college's main site, a quick glance at a map will suffice! There's a nice one of central oxford, with college sites highlighted and labelled, at http://www.dailyinfo.co.uk/sheet/maps/dn-day.pdf.
- For evidence that the college houses all Fresher undergraduates on the main site and in houses in adjacent Ship Street, and that most students then live on the college's other sites in later years, see the college prospectus at http://www.jesus.ox.ac.uk/admissions/prospectus/accommodation.php.
- There is evidence out there that the college is reputed to have a close-knit, friendly atmosphere; proving the reputation to be well-founded would be trickier so I won't try! The best I could manage in ten minutes was the web version of OUSU's Oxford Handbook. At http://www.oxfordhandbook.com/the_university/colleges/jesus/ the third paragraph says "The atmosphere among the students is friendly and close-knit. Jesubites can get the reputation for being a bit insular, but that certainly makes for an increased sense of community in college[...]". Since this is from a website/printed publication comparing Oxford colleges it is presumably intended to imply friendliness etc. beyond that to be found at Oxford colleges more generally.
- I haven't provided evidence that (3) results from (1) and (2), but it doesn't seem an unreasonable proposition, and I can't think of any more likely explanation.
- --Casper Gutman 00:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC) (Full disclosure: Jesus College student)
Thanks for the discussion.
- I have deleted the reference to sheepshagger
- I have corrected the "high" on the Norringtonn Table - 13th out of 30 can only be called average/middle. I don't think you can really argue that 'high' is a better term than 'average.'
- I'm not convinced about the reputation. Prospectuses are hardly reliable and oversimplify things. But I will leave this for the moment.
- Size: I was thinking in terms of student numbers, but now realise that the sentence doesn't necessarily mean this.
Also:
- What sports has Jesus done well in lately? I don't know - I'm not in Oxford anymore. I just wonder if this has been left in there from years past.
Samgra 09:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- Reworded "not being especially noted for its prowess in any particular field", as I felt it sounded a bit derogatory. I'm sure that wasn't the intention, but it just struck me as something that didn't sit well.
- This paragraph (Student Life) is still pretty weak, but probably better than it was. I might try adding more verifiable (and maybe interesting) info at some point.
- Not sure about recent sporting achievements - not really my thing....--Casper Gutman 09:16, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Edited the offending section some more, and added a few extra things. Is this any better? Opinions? --Casper Gutman 12:06, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- I think it's a huge improvement. I've removed the NPOV warning. Thanks for putting up with an Exonian editing the Jesus page! Samgra 12:16, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
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- No problem. Thanks for spurring on the improvements! --Casper Gutman 15:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Welsh connection
I remember a service conducted all in Welsh, presumably on St David's Day. If this tradition is continuing, it may be worth mentioning. --Alf melmac 07:50, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- Quite right, Alf. The St David's Day service still takes place each year. Having been in the choir for that service a good few times, I must be one of the select few non-Welsh speakers in the world who could write this out from memory... "Gogoniant i'r Tad, ac i'r Mab, ac i'r Yspryd Glân; Megis yr oedd yn y dechrau, y mae yr awr hon, ac y bydd yn wastad, yn oes oesoedd. Amen." I'll add a little paragraph! --Casper Gutman 10:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
