Talk:Jesse Owens

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[edit] Official??

In what way is that the official site? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.247.27.150 (talk) 07:56, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tinus Osendarp

"However, see Tinus Osendarp."

  • What's the however? Nothing in that article seems to contradict this paragraph. Yes, he was white and Jesse creamed him, but the article doesn't contradict anything nor can I see why it's linked here. I assume there's a reason, but apparently, it has been left out of both articles, which is annoying. Is it just that he was the fastest white guy? If so, maybe the Jesse Owens article should say "Notably, he defeated Tinus Osendarp who had been expected to win the x and y events" (assuming he had been expected to win, I don't know the Tinus story at all). --Daniel Quinlan

Why is it necessary to point out the how Jesse Owens "creamed" the "fastest white guy" in the race? That hardly seems relevant to the article as a whole, and the fact that the article doesn't mention it annoys you seems extremely POV. --Nazrac 22:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

That is an old edit from 2003. It is no longer relevant. David D. (Talk) 05:47, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

"[...] on August 9, 1936 he won his fourth gold medal of the games as a member of the 4 x 100-meter relay team."

  • The current phrasing is odd. Why is the date pointed out for the last event and not the other three. Is the exact date even really needed or useful? I suggest striking, perhaps even reverting. Daniel Quinlan 07:34, Aug 10, 2003 (UTC)
For now I gave the dates, to show they are not on the same date, as in 1935. Aliter 19:40, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Hitler

  1. Made it slightly more neutral, by removing something unprovable.
  2. How do we know: "Adolf Hitler had intended to use the games to promote "Aryan superiority"."? Mind you, I fully believe the German propaganda machine did, but we write here we know someone's personal ideas.
  3. Is it true that Hitler has "criticized African-American athletes as "black auxiliaries" and "non-humans""? I know the Nazi-controlled press did, but this is the first time I see these words put into a person's mouth. Aliter 19:40, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Problems solved, I see. Thanks. Aliter 03:01, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

No, not solved. To me, "A persistent myth has grown up that Hitler had intended [...]" implies that it isn't true, which is a statement that needs to be justified. Maybe I just interpret the statement wrong, but if it can be misintepreted it needs to be changed. Abostrom

I agree. I think you do interpret the statement wrong: The comma behind "Aryan superiority" means the next part of the sentence follows from the first part; the Jesse Owens-quote disproves the second, and hence the total. But the structure is probably too complex, ivhgcdygcfghfccghcft invites misreading, and it's debatable whether the second part in fact does follow from the first. We know people falsely claim Hitler refused to shake hands with Owens, etc. etc.. We should probably either limit ourselves to those part or rewrite the more general part as a separate statement. Aliter 00:10, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The discussed paragraph smells very bad now. Just as Abostrom wrote, it sounds as if it isn't true that the Nazis tried to use the Olympic for propaganda purposes. I think the paragraph is not NPOV; it is biased. I will put a tag on the article's page until this is resolved. Ben T/C July 6, 2005 10:39 (UTC)
  • We are talking about the paragraph, introduced by anonymous user 203.219.108.182, on July 10, 2004, who has only this and the following edit and nothing else.

A persistent myth has grown up that Hitler had intended to use the games to promote "Aryan superiority", and was in the stadium for some of Owens' events but had refused to acknowledge him after his remarkable performances. In fact, in Owens' autobiography, The Jesse Owens Story, Owens himself recounted how Hitler had stood up and waved to him:

"When I passed the Chancellor he arose, waved his hand at me, and I waved back at him. I think the writers showed bad taste in criticizing the man of the hour in Germany." - Jesse Owens, The Jesse Owens Story, 1970.

In what was to become an act of extreme irony, the American president of the time, Franklin D. Roosevelt, then involved in an election and concerned about the reaction in the USA's southern states, refused to see Owens at the White House: Owens was later to remark that it was Roosevelt, not Hitler, who snubbed him.

I don't want to change this personally, as I am not an expert in the field and not a contributor to the article, but if this is not changed to a better form, especially by removing the part "A persistent myth has grown up", than I will remove all three paragraphs. Ben T/C July 6, 2005 10:59 (UTC)
  • If it is possible to insert parts of the olimpic games documentary without violating any copyright that could be more objective.

Hitler could not hide that he was angry when the black athlets won their "superior aryans." Is very evident, and there is no doubt about his racism in: his book, his speeches, and his killing industry against Jews, Gypsies, Blacks (he invaded Africa), other non aryans, and even "week aryans" like homosexuals or mentaly retarded, etc.

Other point I think must be modified is the euphemistic style of the article using: afro-american ethnicity and alike instead of black. The nazis used euphemisms to disguise their actions, they talk euthanasia to kill "the week aryans". Please do not use euphemisms in the article. I was tempted to correct that but I am not fluent enough english writer.
The article should not be neutral when neutrality means to be a revisionist, Hitler never hided his racism and was supported by a very efficiently planed and detailed propaganda machinery, a very well documented fact.
For that reason I do not agree with the deletion of his propagandistic intentions as something unprovable argued by Aliter in the following paragraphabove:

<end of my comment>—Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.248.181.1 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Wording

User:Wyss wants the text to read "After the first day, when Hitler left the stadium before an awards ceremony involving an African-American" and "Hitler opted for the latter and skipped all further medal presentations.". The first sentence is missleading, Hitler left early (according to some sources due to rain), but it had nothing to do with the awards ceremony. The second sentence gives the impression Hitler awarded the medals himself and that is clearly false. I suggest it is changed to "After the first day, when Hitler left the stadium after greeting only some of the athletes" and "Hitler opted for the latter and did not attend on the second day.". Considering the persistent urban legend regarding this matter it should be made clear what happened. I have also heared that Hitler shook hand with him and congratulated him on the banquet later that day. However the Germans did ask the US relay team to remove Jewish athletes from the team, something they gladly did. // Liftarn


  • AH left early the day before to avoid shaking hands with a black athlete (not Owens) during the awards ceremony.
  • When the IOC told him to either be present for all ceremonies or attend none, he opted for the latter.
  • Nowhere does the article even imply AH was handing out awards.
  • The article conforms with the documented record. Wyss 17:11, 26 August 2005 (UTC)


Any source for the claim that "AH left early the day before to avoid shaking hands with a black athlete" instead of leaving for, say, rain or some other reason. Do you have any source for the claim of that he didn't attend the second day for that reason rather than some other reason? The wording "skipped all further medal presentations" hints AH in some way was involved in the medal presentations rather than just being a spectator. // Liftarn
Try these [1] [2]. Hitler was not handing out medals, but had the opportunity to be present to shake hands with the winners at the awards ceremonies. Wyss 16:52, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
That first link gave a few interesting pieces of information. "that day he didn't congratulate anybody" and "That first day he had shaken hands with all the German victors". Regarding the nameless person he now has a name "Hitler did snub a black American athlete, but it was Cornelius Johnson, not Jesse Owens. It happened the first day of the meet. Just before Johnson was to be decorated, Hitler left the stadium. A Nazi spokesman explained that Hitler's exit had been pre-scheduled, but no one believes that." apart from the POV they could be used to make the article better. // Liftarn

[edit] Article

No information on the article by him "My Greatest Olympic Prize"  ?

[edit] Posthumous?

A trivia channel on IRC just described Owens as having "won four gold medals, plus a fifth posthumously". Is this true? DS July 2, 2005 12:31 (UTC)


[edit] No hand shakes

Neither Hitler nor Roosevelt shook hands with Jesse. There were no direct snubs... it was an era of deeply institutionalised, overt racism. Hitler did wave at Owens. AH was a genocidal sociopath but he had a human side and some considerable personal charm (there are reasons why so many powerful people cooperated in his rise to power). For AH the games were as much a propaganda exercise for showing off the recovering German economy and infrastructure and benefits were derived. German athletes won many medals and the Nazis thought of the 1936 olympics as a big success. Readers shouldn't imagine AH anxiously sitting in his swastika festooned fuhrer box, rooting for every event, he wasn't even there for most of them, nor for any of the awards ceremonies after the first day.

I've re-written that section of the article accordingly, put in another Owens quote (so most of the story is now in his, widely-documented words), cleaned up the picture layout and removed the PoV tag. Wyss 6 July 2005 12:04 (UTC)

[edit] "Young slaveowner" beats Owens

This article mentions twice--once in the body, and once in the "Trivia" section--that "Owens was defeated in a footrace by Graham Talley, a young slaveowner, which fueled his determination to become a great runner." If Owens was born in 1913, how can this possibly be true? Where were there any slaveowners in the 1920s? A quick google revealed nothing. Until I can check the facts in a more reliable source, I have flagged the article as "disputed."

--Williamebil 12:09am MST, 16 Nov. 2005

I deleted the unlikely references and removed the disputed tag. If there is anything to it at all, perhaps Talley was the descendent of slave owners, but the whole thing probably should be considered a hoax, without verifiable evidence.--Silverback 09:08, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

→ÊÂǐItalic textInsert non ---- [[Link title]]-formatted text here He won 4 medals

[edit] Hi

Does Jesse Owens have anything in common? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.132.237.158 (talk • contribs) .

With whom? Powers 00:24, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalised

This article has been vandalised in several places. --Darthmgh 03:02, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Some "graffiti" were still there in February 15th. When I went to the Edit page, the offensive graffiti were not there; the text appeared correct. So I simply saved it without making changes; when I returned to the article, the graffiti were gone.

[edit] Cultural depictions of Jesse Owens

I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 15:08, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Equal rights in Germany

Please stop inserting this misleading pro-Nazi propaganda and deleting sourced content. If you have reasons, please list them here before editing the article again. Haber 23:09, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Please stop inserting your Ku Klux Klan propaganda/racist POV vandalism. There was no discrimination/persecution of Black people in Germany, in contrast to your country. Your edits and denial of American racism against Black people are utterly unacceptable. Aosser 09:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

The version which I approve acknowledges that there was racism in both countries. The point is that JO rose above it and showed us the way. Falsely asserting that Germany treated blacks equally does not help anyone to understand. You are deleting sourced content and flat-out lying. Please desist. Haber 17:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Matthew "Mack" Robinson

In the trivia section it states, "The runner he beat in the 200m at the 1936 Summer Olympics was Jackie Robinson's brother, Matthew 'Mack' Robinson, who also beat the world record at the time." The Matthew "Mack" Robinson link shows that an article has not been created for him yet. Today's Did you know... section on the main page has a link to Matthew Robinson (athlete) but I am fairly new here and after some research I still could not figure out how to make a redirect to the Matthew Robinson (athlete) article if it could be created.

LPDDISPATCH 07:34, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] For the record

I've heard JO broke 6 records 25 May 1935. Were the OR or WR? Include it? Trekphiler™Flag of Canada 05:07, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This Article Reallly Needs to be Cleaned Up!

There are loads of grammar mistakes and the information is poorly communicated. I think we should class it as 'Requiring Cleanup'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Digitalapocalypse (talk • contribs) 10:02, 23 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Should This Be Here?

I don't know how, but someone has managed to sneak the following lines in:

"Jesse Owens was so outraged that Hitler did not shake his hand he summoned an earthquake and lighting to come from the heavens to kill hitler ... Hitler counter-spelled jesse owens spell which gave Jesse Owens magic powers allowing him to win 4 gold medals in the 1936 olympics"

I think it's bollocks and needs to be removed. Can anyone who doesn't disagree please do so? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.128.39.65 (talk) 01:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] adoption

I have removed the foloowing here from the article: It needs a source and is not appropriate in the early years section. Should have its own section if there is enough info that cn be used.:

Jesse Owens is also known for his love for children. He contributed to the adoption agencys. He formed his own adoption services. When friends and family came together in 1980, they wanted to find a way to honor the spirit of a man who strongly believed in his country and the value of its youth; this being said he supported the war in Vietnam.

It also needs to be copy edited if there are sources. how does the Vietnam part relate to this theme? David D. (Talk) 17:09, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Owens biography

I have no idea, where this quotation comes from, because it is not in "The Jesse Owens Story" from 1970. In the book Owens despises Hitler and never calls him "Chancellor". This Part should be removed:

On reports that Hitler had deliberately avoided acknowledging his victories, and had refused to shake his hand, Owens recounted:[4] “ When I passed the Chancellor he arose, waved his hand at me, and I waved back at him. I think the writers showed bad taste in criticizing the man of the hour in Germany. ” —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.178.87.168 (talk) 16:23, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] "Berlin Games: How Hitler Stole the Olympics Dream"

This section appears to contradict much of the info in the rest of the article. A solitary link to a book being sold on Amazon isn't a very good citation, especially for an entire, controversial section. --JD79 18:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the important bits of info could be moved in the bulk of the article, as in "blah blah blah blah, though this claim is disputed by author blah blah in "Berlin Games: blah blah blah".

[edit] Contradiction in Article

In the Berlin Olympics part, it says "after friendly and helpful advice from German competitor Lutz Long"- while the later part of the article says the historian Guy Walters said this was untrue.

I've changed it to that he allegedly said...

[edit] Oakville vs. Danville

I find it it be very important that the name of the community where Owens grew up be noted. In his autobiography, Jesse constantly refers to Oakville when discussing the positive and negative points in his life. Therefore, it is important that it is listed as where he's from. (Wrdmegle (talk) 19:14, 13 January 2008 (UTC))

If I recall correctly, the article mentioned him being born near Danville. I'm not sure if it mentioned Oakville as being his original birthplace. The reason Danville was in there is because most people actually know where Danville is. Very very few know where Oakville is. AlaGuy (talk) 01:38, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Danville isn't exactly a bustling metropolis. If you know where Danville is, you can find Oakville. In fact, it would be better to put Moulton as the town it is close to than Danville. Also, anyone can find Oakville if they type it in to mapquest or google maps. (Wrdmegle (talk) 07:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC))
Yes, you can find it by typing it in. But, I think we're looking to simplify the process for readers so that they don't have to go to other sites to find out where Oakville is. If you're looking for a city to say it's close to, I'd say Decatur. Really, do most people know where Moulton is? It may be the county seat, but I think people are more likely to know where a city with about 19 or 20 times the population of Moulton is. AlaGuy (talk) 19:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
This has been on going for a while. See this edit. If he was not born in Danville then we should not say he was. I agree it's not hard to find these places on a map and giving incorrect information is more confusing than listing a less well known community, IMO. David D. (Talk) 21:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I think we've gotten past putting Danville in the article. Should we put a larger city (Decatur or Moulton) to give Oakville's relative location?AlaGuy (talk) 23:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Here's the problem. Jesse constantly refers to Oakville in his autobiography, so it obviously needs to be referenced. Once you've put the county in there, that's plenty of geographic reference (there's only 67 in the whole state). I think you replace that part if anything, not the Oakville part. It's proper to put a less well known community down when you are describing something unique to the area. See Emmett Till for one of the best examples of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wrdmegle (talk • contribs) 20:03, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm just saying that Oakville is an unincorporated community, and there are few people that can tell you how to get there. I agree, the lesser known place should by all means be included. I still believe there should be another community included to give a relative location. Of course, it would be put in after Oakville is mentioned. It'd be nice to get a third, three or four more would be nice, opinion. AlaGuy (talk) 20:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Danville is also an unincorporated community. The only difference is that Danville has a post office that some homes in Oakville receive mail from, including the memorial park (creating confusion with addresses). However, Danville is in Morgan County, not Lawrence, and most from Oakville do not claim to be from Danville. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.36.254.93 (talk) 07:43, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand why you are worrying about the specific location. Most readers look at the state alone, which town is referenced will likely make no difference to comprehension. As such i think it is better to be accurate rather than clear, with respect to better known towns nearby. If he uses Oakville in his biography who are we just change that? David D. (Talk) 20:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

So i thought I'd try mapquest and see what i get with Oakville, AL. Why do we consider this to be a problem? The Oakville location seems quite easy to find. David D. (Talk) 22:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)