Talk:Jesse Dirkhising

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[edit] Photo?

Anyone willing to hunt down a photo? Benjiboi 21:54, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

It should be noted that this article should be primarily about Jesse. Matthew Shepherd should not provide the template. Jesse was murdered by homosexuals and was a hate crime committed by gay men. Not too pc, but it's a fact. One of Shepherd's murderers, they killed him for his money, is bisexual. How about we give Jesse his due in the article? Don't let the homosexuals downplay his death.70.108.117.53 (talk) 21:53, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

  • The reason why the case is Wikipedia:Notable is because Conservative/Right Wing American commentators believe that Dirkhising's case was neglected in the media while Shepherd's case was covered, and the right wing media created a backlash against the left wing based on this. Regarding "biographical" coverage (both articles are mostly about the cases and not the victims themselves) I'll take a look. :) WhisperToMe (talk) 22:06, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
    • Hmm, after comparing the two cases both seem to have "Background" entries of equal length. Dirkhising's doesn't have a photo but I'll see if there is one that could be used. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
      • I've looked into every reliable source available and there does seem to be doubt whether the murder was accidental or not and no evidence suggests it was a hate crime. As for a photo I did see one somewhere but, naturally did not copy it as it wasn't free. Benjiboi 04:07, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
        • It's okay to use a non-free photo of a dead person unless a free photo exists. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
          • Fair enough, I see one's been added which seems fine to me. Benjiboi 01:51, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
        • The murder and rape of Jesse Dirkhising was a hate crime despite what you think Benjiboi. What do you call it? An act of love? No! It's a violent hate crime committed by two homosexual men. It is what it is. Also there is no reliable proof nor any evidence to show that Dirkhising was gay, therefore this part you wrote and put into the article should be removed. There are however sources that claim Jesse Dirkhising was indeed HETEROSEXUAL. I noticed you didn't put that part in which leads me to question your involvement in this article. Your personal political views are more than obvious through your edits. They have no business here. Caden, 4 March 2008
          • Actually there seems no evidence to support the claim of a hate crime and no reliable sources have suggested it, in fact, although the two men involved would easily be considered ephebophiles or pedophiles there is evidence that Dirkhising was in some part a willing participant and one of the defendents testified that the visits and sexual activity had gone on for a few months. This doesn't excuse a murder, accidental or otherwise, nor does it condone sexual relations with a minor, in my view, but it does indicate that the nature f this case compared to Shepherds were dramatically different. Benjiboi 01:51, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
          • I have a real problem with this article from beginning to end. It is not neutral at all. I question nearly all of the sources, edits and references used. Infact, I question every single contribution made here by Benjiboi. He has turned this article into left wing type of liberal garbage. It is not evenly balanced and is very anti conservative. All contributions inserted by him are cleverly manipulated to serve the left wing agenda. This article should be neutral but appears to be one sided. Also much of the material used are nothing but allegations that have never been proven to be truthful. There is no evidence to support that Jesse Dirkhising was homosexual but there is evidence to support that he was heterosexual but was being confused by the continuous efforts of his homosexual killers. Dirkhising was not a willing participant, he was a victim who was being sexually molested for two months by two homosexual pedophiles. Josh Brown, the younger homosexual lover of Davis Carpenter, testified that he had been sexually molesting Jesse for two months. Benjiboi cleverly did not include any of this into this article. Caden, 5 March 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.161.164 (talk) 04:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
            • I just saw this posting so apologize for not responding sooner. Actually I used every source I could find so I'm a little surprised by your assertions. Also please save your accusations against me as personal attacks are not allowed. If you have a reliable source that refutes content or indeed can add to the article in some way please post here so others can also review it. Benjiboi 01:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-Mainstream Media Coverage of Jesse Dirkhising's Murder

On 16 October 1999, six days before the Washington Times article's publication, Dr. William Pierce of the National Alliance broadcast a half-hour radio lecture treating the murder of Jesse Dirkhising by two homosexual men. A text copy of the broadcast can be found at

http://users.mo-net.com/mlindste/adv10169.html

The broadcast was heard nationally on shortwave radio, and it was immediately available worldwide by internet download from the National Alliance website. It isn't true that the mainstream media were the first to give the Dirkhising murder a measure of national exposure, and there is the possibility that not even the Washington Times article would have appeared had the prior National Alliance coverage of the crime not been published.

74.45.232.201 (talk) 15:30, 28 February 2008 (UTC) Jerry Abbott

Interesting but I think this little gem gives insight into this "source" ...
“ My organization, the National Alliance, attempts to fight alienation among our people in many ways. One of the ways is a sticker we distribute which has on it the simple message, and I quote, "Earth's most endangered species: the White race. Help preserve it." ”
They also seem to get quite a few facts wrong, for example Dirkising wasn't "dragged off the street". I will generally oppose the use of this source and doubt its impact was very great on this subject's story. If you can cite more reliable sources that cite this shortwave broadcast as being impactful in a meaningful way then please post it here so we can see of the possibility. Benjiboi 01:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jesse Dirkhising article does not read as NPOV

Could somebody who is willing to be honest, subjective and neutral please have another look at the Jesse Dirkhising page? It is NOT WP:NPOV and that makes it a really big problem. It's clear to me that it's nothing more than the POV of several editors who have taken over the Dirkhising page. Take note of the edits, sources, material and references used. It's all one sided. How can one assume good faith when we have editors pushing their own agenda through typical propaganda? This article needs to be deleted and re-written in order for it to work. It must be neutral, which it is not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CadenS (talk • contribs) 22:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree that there are POV problems, but I don't think the article should be rebuilt from the ground up. It should be reworked fairly extensively though. The Matthew Sheppard section should be just a link to the full article, and there are tinges of sexual bias which should be stripped out. I would also love to see a citation for the O'Reilly quote; it's a pretty good summary of the issues in play, but it doesn't sound like him at all. 128.84.79.171 (talk) 00:41, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

CadenS, please stop, insinuating other editors are not honest violates wikipedia's policies on no personal attacks. Stick to content not the contributor.
:128.84.79.171, I used to feel the very same way but indeed almost every source beyond the local news positioned this murder in context and contrasted to the Shepherd one. One solution, I guess, would be to refocus and move the article to "Comparisons between the Dirkhising and Shepherd murders". In that case I think there would be no bio then for Dirkhising as all the relevant material would be in that article and he is known only because of this event. Benjiboi 01:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Benjiboi, I am sticking to the content. That's my whole point. Please stop making assumptions about me. The content of this article is not WP:NPOV . It reads as being POV from top to bottom. It needs to be reworked in order for it to be neutral. Moving the article is not the solution. CadenS (talk) 22:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
WP:AGF does not require people to be stupid. You are making veiled accusations against established editors. Benji and I certainly have disagreed over this and other articles, but Wiki is a work continuously in progress. If you have specific complaints about the article then please use this space to address them and to suggest improvements. Unconstructive accusations are not useful and are disruptive. --Veritas (talk) 22:25, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I give up. I'm sorry for even trying to help out. I feel like I'm being ganged up on. I'm sorry, but this is how I feel. My intentions are good but I feel nobody believes me. I will no longer attempt to help this page. CadenS (talk) 22:49, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Birthplace and middle initial

According to this link the memorial stone of Jesse Dirkhising shows his middle initial to be "W". In the newspaper clip (death notice), it shows his middle name as "William" and states his birthplace as Oxford, Ohio. CadenS (talk) 21:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC) Here's the link