Talk:Jeremiah O'Donovan Rossa

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I will include this article on my watch list, and begin to reference it. As I am intrested in the Young Irelanders, Rossa will play an important part i.e the fenian's which were founded by exiled members of Young Ireland. Domer48

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 17:04, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Again with the Commander

I see Rossa has also been given the uneasy epithet of "Commander". Is there a source for this? I don't think either the Fenian Brotherhood nor the IRB has any such rank. -R. fiend (talk) 18:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, now we have him holding the "position" of Commander (still linking to the military rank) which I guess is a slight improvement. Now where is the source that this title belongs to him in that capacity? It seems there is a tendency to call people "Commander" as a sort of general-purpose title, which is somewhat disturbing. We wouldn't do that for General, so why this rank? I'll look into his official position when I can. -R. fiend (talk) 19:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Still no source for "Commander". I'm removing it. -R. fiend (talk) 07:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

May I suggest that instead of repeating this same arguement on every one of these articles, we contain this discussion to just one place, and until agreement is reached you refrain from removing text from the articles in question, to reduce the likelyhood of edit wars.--Padraig (talk) 10:43, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't make sense, as it's a different argument. Or do you expect suddenly a text to appear saying "While Rossa held no formal rank, he was recognized by members of the dynamite campaign as one of its commanders"? I don't think so. With Clarke at least a half-hearted attempt was made to cite some sort of rank, but here there is none. When someone has a source we can discuss it, or do I suddenly have to prove that he didn't hold that rank? -R. fiend (talk) 16:30, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

He was the Leader of the Dynamite campaign, he planned and organised it.--Padraig (talk) 16:51, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

That is not the rank of Commander. Why is that so difficult for people? Why don't we just use these stupid infoboxes sparingly, as all they do is present oversimplified, misleading information that's already in the article. The article makes it clear he was the chief organizer of the dynamite campaign (as well as all the other information it provides), we don't need it to make up ranks and titles for him as well. Heaven forbid we should actually make people read the damn article to find out information on him. -R. fiend (talk) 17:05, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Its not put as a rank but as a position, you already argued that rank shouldn't be used, so position was added to the infobox for that purpose.--Padraig (talk) 17:12, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Still, is there any evidence that he was ever referred to as a commander even as a position? Why is that better than other words that could be used, and that wouldn't be mistaken for a rank? Without perusing his memoirs (which I have been meaning to read for a couple years but haven't gotten around to yet) I was unable to quickly find what his official standing in the IRB and Fenain Brotherhood was, though it seems he should have held some formal position (neither had ranks, that I know if, so not Commander). I think we should find out what that was and use it. In the meantime, maybe "leader of the dynamite campaign" would be the most accurate "position" for him to hold (keeping in mind simply putting "leader" would give the erroneous impression that he was leader of the IRB). -R. fiend (talk) 17:42, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable, but that would reduce the likelyhood of edit wars, and would not suite some. --Domer48 (talk) 11:30, 3 January 2008 (UTC)