User talk:Jeff Soapy Smith

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Welcome!


So far you have added content only to Soapy Smith, as your username asserts. You would not happen to know anything about any other confidence trickster? - Skysmith 21:37, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

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I moved messages from your user page to this talk page - you can write a desription of yourself there - Skysmith 07:46, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Jeff. See the Wikipedia manual of style WP:MOS for use of caps in headings. Generally, except for proper names, Wiki prefers only the first heading letter capped. Welcome to Wiki Sbharris 19:41, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Jeff Soapy Smith, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 

Contents

[edit] Soapy Smith external website is spam??

I am having some trouble on the ALASKA page. I have listed my "Soapy" Smith website under external websites and two people keep deleting it. "Soapy" Smith is to Alaska history, what Jesse James is to Missouri history. In fact, "Soapy" is listed as "Alaska's Outlaw." You will find his name is every book on the goldrush there. Most people in Alaska know his name.

I am ready to give up. This is why I did not want to edit on Wikipedia in the first place. I was ASKED to come here. Soapy 17:56, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jeff, I'm sorry to hear that you're having problems with content conflicts. It's normal for most external links to be deleted os sight - check out WP:EL for more details. If you think your site is still worthy of being on the page, I think the best solution would be to post on the article's talk page, explain why.
I hope this doesn't stop you from wanting to edit wikipedia - it's not all arguments and conflicts! -- cds(talk) 18:08, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I looked over the link and the site, it's a good resource. The reason I would delete it from the Alaska article is that it is not particular to Alaska as a whole; those are the primary external links that you would want to keep for that particular article (eg the state website, census information). I don't think you're spamming or putting in the link for vanity as the other edit summaries say- I think it just doesn't fit for the overall article. I do love the article on Soapy Smith, pretty interesting stuff. You're doing good work! Teke 18:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Jeff, it's just that Wikipedia knowledge is deeper than you think. The entire Klondike goldrush merits just ONE sentence in the subarticle History of Alaska and one photo (which is a great one, BTW). Skagway doesn't merit mention. But if you keep looking at histories of those particular topics in Wiki, you'll eventually find the perfect natural place to put your link(s). Don't give up. I see somebody (you?) has already added the link to Skagway, Alaska. It's not in Klondike Gold Rush, but then the names of few people are.Sbharris 18:56, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Sbharris: I do not know how much you know about Alaskan history, but the Klondike gold rush had an enormous impact on Alaska. I do not understand you saying Skagway has no merit for mention in Alaska history. It was the main port for the gold rush, and plays a key role in the Klondike Gold Rush National Historical Park, operated by the National Park Service. Soapy 21:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

What little I know about that area of history, I would agree. Maybe the info could be added to the Gold Rush article. - Skysmith 21:56, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Agree. Even in upper Alaska (which I've been to, though never the panhandle where the Klondike staging was) has many references to the gold rush years. You can't visit upper Alaska without finding out the difference between chechako and sourdough. This history should be expanded in History of Alaska, since most of the staging to the Klondike was through Alaska, and (as we said) had a huge influence on its history and culture. Jack London. Robert Service. Need I say more?Sbharris 03:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I did not put it in the "Gold Rush" history (I assume you mean Klondike gold rush) because it is Alaskan history, not Canadian.Soapy 22:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

You could start a new chapter like "Klondike Gold Rush in Alaska" in that article if you want to specify the exact consequences in Alaska. - Skysmith 10:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, somebody put into Klondike for you. But that history is both Alaskan and Canadian for reasons noted above, and this is already discussed in the article. Perhaps the Alaskan part of the Klondike article could use some fleshing out as well. Go for it.Sbharris 03:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I am saddened to see that you say that you are tired of Wikipedia. Sometimes it's best not to get involved in articles that are personal to you for this very reason. Had it not been for this I wouldn't have learned about Soapy Smith, which is what the project is about. Consider staying and working on other articles; there is much to be done here. Teke 01:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

To Skysmith and Sbharris: One of you two can do the write up on Alaska's role on the Klondike article. If no one deletes to it, or complains that it does not belong there, then I will maybe add to it.

I know next to nothing about that era, so I could not do it justice. However, I don't think there would be any good reason to delete any relevant information. - Skysmith 16:19, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: your comment on Wikipedia talk:Deletion process

Edward Capehart O'Kelley was speedy-deleted by User:Kungfuadam. If you have not yet talked to him/her, I recommend leaving a polite note on the admin's requesting clarification. Looking at the deleted content, I understand why the tag was added but looking at the page history, this does seem to have been carried out a bit precipitously. We've been fighting a fairly persistent vandal lately and your stub may have just gotten caught in the crossfire.

If talking to the deleting admin doesn't answer your questions, you have the option to petition for a review of the deletion decision at Wikipedia:Deletion review. Rossami (talk) 02:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

(copy of what I wrote there)
Edward Capehart O'Kelley (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) was deleted by Kungfuadam (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves • rights).
  1. You are correct that it shouldn't have been speedy deleted, as it had the {{hangon}} template, and has 2 existing article references.
  2. The Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion explicitly states: "Before nominating an article for speedy deletion, please consider whether an article could be improved or reduced to a stub. Also, please note that some Wikipedians create articles in multiple saves, so try to avoid deleting a page too soon after its initial creation."
  3. You are incorrect as to the place to complain. That should have been Wikipedia:Deletion review.
  4. Unfortunately these days, just re-posting the same article again is sometimes considered a form of vandalism, so complain first, and during the review the old article will be undeleted so everybody can see it.
--William Allen Simpson 03:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
And to follow up, don't give up quite yet....
--William Allen Simpson 03:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your help, but the article is gone. I checked where you said it was, for review, but it is not there. I also have not received any response from "Kungfuadam" or the other areas I posted the complaint. Looking at his talk page, I can see he has a lot of complaints against him. Something should be done about this guy. I was asked to come to Wikipedia a while ago, but always delayed, because I heard about the problems. Now I wish I would have stayed away. Soapy 06:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

These things happen, unfortunately. You could recommend the article for undeletion in the the Deletion review. Or write a longer version and repost it - Skysmith 08:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I've restored the article for you and moved it to your userspace. You can find it at User:Jeff Soapy Smith/Edward Capehart O'Kelley. This is to allow you to expand the article, WP:CITE more sources etc. Once you feel the article is ready it can be moved (note: moved using the move tab, not copied) back to the main article space. If the article does not demonstrate that the subject is notable it could get deleted again, so make sure it's ready. Feel free to ask me any questions if you need further help. Cheers, Petros471 10:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


Thank you people!! Soapy 15:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Helpme

Please use the {{helpme}} only on your talk page. It is not for articles or their talk pages.
Also, I am not able to do anything to move the talk page as you have asked, and you will need admin assistance. I will leave the helpme there for now so that an admin can take care of it. --No1lakersfan 16:31, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
The issue has been resolved. --No1lakersfan 16:59, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

memeber jasbro is causing a lot of havoc on my Soapy Smith discussion page. Even though numerous people have explained to him the situation he will not let up, nor will he let anyone remove improper tags/banners on the main article.Soapy 20:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I'm afraid User:Jaysbro is right to raise this issue. Talk pages are there for discussion of the page content, including whether it conforms to the policies and guidelines for Wikipedia. Also, in general, the templates at the top of the page should not be removed while the page content is still disputed.
I would say that citing sources - the specific documents which support your claims (especially web versions if possible as they're easier for people to check) - would probably fix the issues discussed. You shouldn't cite sources which are in your personal possession: these cannot be checked and are therefore not verifiable.
Wikipedia has a few ways to help resolve disputes - see Wikipedia:Resolving disputes. --h2g2bob 23:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello, Jaysbro here. I object to the accusation that I "won't let anyone remove improper tags/banners on the main article." I specifically said that anyone can delete from or add to the article (since Wikipedia is freely editable), but that doing something unilaterally (without a consensus of all interested parties) is likely to create a controversy (and Wikipedia has procedures for dealing with a controversy). On re-reading my post I see how it came out as a threat, how Jeff could have inferred "Do this or I'll bring the wrath of wikipedia on you" and for that I apologize, but I wasn't trying to threaten, just tell you how Wikipedia operates. Jaysbro 16:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shell game

If you have read this article, the reason for the {totallydisputed} tag should be obvious to you. Nonetheless, I left some examples on the talk page in case you are interested in trying to improve the biased tone and questionable factual accuracy of the article. My guess is that it will require some bonifide sources and a near complete rewrite fo the text. savidan(talk) (e@) 06:31, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

    • This issue has been completely resolved. the User: Savidan did not know that the shell game was a swindle and never played on the street honestly. Soapy 20:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] soapy smith .. fort worth

curious is you have any sort of reference for the soapy smith info you placed on the History of Fort Worth, Texas page.. please get back to me - Thanks!! --drumguy8800 C T 23:16, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

  • letters from family and gang members. They will be published in the biography I am publishing on Soapy, which is why I did not use them as reference. Soapy 19:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seattle, Washington

This message is regarding your Talk:Seattle, Washington vote to oppose a move. I made a comment on it. Georgia guy 20:31, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] baked alaska

i saw you removed 'baked alaska' from the Alaska section. the pair do share a connection apart from the name. the baked alaska article mentions "This title transformed into "Baked Alaska" in 1876 when Delmonico's Restaurant in New York City named it in honour of the newly acquired territory of Alaska." So i feel it should be included. DARReNTALK 11:55, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shell game edit corrections

Thanks for your fixes after my changes to Shell game - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shell_game&diff=next&oldid=99234115

I missed that.

Interestingly, the verb was okay in British English (and by extension Aussie English), but not okay in US English. See: [1]

e.g. If I replaced the word "gang", by "they" -> "surround" would be the choice.

I'll let it stand.

Thanks again.

202.63.40.179 20:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

    • Actually, what you apparently meant to do was change the original sentence to read, "the gang surround him/her," but you wrote, "the player/victim the gang surround him/her," which does not make sense. Soapy 20:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
      • Yeah, agreed. That's why I thanked you. As someone who is a little pedantic about spelling/grammar I appreciated you fixing the error I hadn't noticed at the time. But when looking at the change of "surround" to "surrounds", I at first didn't understand why you changed that. Looking at web sites I realised the different British/U.S. usage. Possibly in British English either "surround" or "surrounds" is okay, depending on whether the gang is regarded as a unit ("It surrounds") or individuals acting together ("They surround"). In U.S. English it looks like "surrounds" is the only option. Regards, 202.63.40.179 01:45, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] People known by pseudonyms

Category:People known by pseudonyms (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) was actually discussed for six days, and now it is deleted. Angus McLellan (Talk) 08:10, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] William Moore

Thanks for your advice on the article William Moore (steamship captain). I'd appreciate any further information you have, particularly on the Alaska and Skagway related portion of the article, which I haven't quite started yet. On a completely different topic, re: Soapy Smith, I have a source here The Far Land by Eva MacLean, that states that the last surviving member of Soapy Smith's gang, George Montgomery, ended up in Hazelton, British Columbia. Because that book is more a pioneer reminiscence than anything, I've been leery of citing that information. Any ideas on its truthfulness?CindyBo 18:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi CindyBo, The best book in my opinion is, The White Pass: Gateway to the Klondike, by Roy Minter, 1987 (ISBN: 0-912006-26-9). In regards to Soapy Smith and George Montgomery, I do not have any information on him and his name does not appear anywhere in my records. This does not mean he did not belong, in some fashion, to the Soap Gang but there is no information on him doing so. Is there some kind of footnote in the book you mentioned that shows some sort of evidence that George was a member? or are we just to take Eva MacLean's word. Eva's statement about George being the last surviving member of the gang is absurd. I have been researching Soapy and his gang for well over twenty years and have no where near a complete list of the gang. It was a very secretive organization. In fact, after Soapy was shot dead, the vigilante's tried in vain to rid the town of the gang. They were successful of destroying their hold on the town but were not successful in finding all of them. I have copies of newspapers that show ads in which members of the gang continued to operate businesses in the town well after the death of their boss. It is just not possible for someone to know when the last one died. Did you see my website on Soapy Smith yet? Click →[2] Soapy 18:56, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

ADDENDUM: Hi CindyBo- I did a little checking up on Eva MacLean and her book and did not realize before that she was a woman of the gold rush era...in Canada. I assumed she was a living historian. The members of Soapy Smith's gang were all Americans that came from western parts of the United States, mostly Colorado and Washington. My records do not indicate any of them went to Canada, even during the gold rush. Upon leaving Alaska, most went back home to the states. I have been successful in following a few back to the states well into the 1920s. Some even continued to keep in touch with the widow as they were loyal, even years after Soapy had passed. Soapy 19:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I figured that the George Montgomery statement was suspect, Eva MacLean relied on stories told by the people themselves and what she saw in Hazelton from 1911 to 1913, so whether George really was a member or was just telling her a tall tale, can't be proven from her book, (no footnotes). Her book is more factual when it comes to the robbery at Hazelton, as she witnessed it and her husband was Dan MacLean. Regardless, as to George retiring in Hazelton and being a member of the gang, I'll poke around some more in our local history and let you know if I find any more references to him.CindyBo 20:47, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

By the way, you have an absolutely wonderful website there. Is that the one someone called spam? What nonsense! Even here, in British Columbia, Soapy Smith is also very well known, the name if not the facts. When you publish your book, I hope we'll see it in our book stores here too.CindyBo 21:03, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you on two counts; one, for continuing to keep an eye out for "Soapy" in British Columbia, and two, for the nice comments regarding my website. My publisher is located in Alaska so British Columbia has a good chance of seeing it. It is due out 2008. Soapy 00:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism Warnging

I have a question for you...to what was the vandalism warning that you placed on may talk page (with no explaination) for? As I am a vandalism fighter myself, this warning concerns me very much. I don't see from your contributions where you have reverted any of my edits, and any reverts that I have made have been good faith reverts of suspected vandalism or page banking, so I am VERY concerned about this issue!!! MsDivagin 17:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

  • It is the exact message you left me...without explanation, on an unsigned edit. It all started when you deleted some legitimate categories from the article Soapy Smith. I replaced what you had deleted, and you came back and undid my correction and tagged me as a vandal. I see what you did as the real vandalism and tagged you thusly. Please be more careful when editing articles in the future, as they can easily be construed as destructive. Thank you. Soapy 02:29, 30 September 2007 (UTC)