Talk:Jeffree Star/archive 1

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[edit] Birthdate and other things...

In the article, it says he's 21 years old...but if he was born Nov. 15, 1986, he's only 20. Whoever wrote this article probably meant to write 1985 instead...also, I know for a fact he went to Pacifica High School in Garden Grove, California, and graduated in 2003...how do I know this? He's in my yearbook; I graduated in 2005. And yes, his real name is Jeffrey Steininger. He has a younger brother named Phil.

  • This is the first I've heard of Phil, but what about Daniel Hilton? The two have claimed to be twins before and certainly look like they could be fraternal twins. Or is "Daniel" really "Phil"?
  • I haven't heard of Daniel Hilton; I only know Jeffrey has a younger brother named Phil because he is also in my yearbook and I've talked to Pacifica High School teachers about it. Who knows, though...the name "Daniel Hilton" sounds kind of phony anyway so maybe it is an alias of Phil's. - myspace.com/amandalovespurrs
What is true and what can be referenced and included on Wikipedia are two separate things. If and when it's sourced that he has a brother (and frankly if it makes sense t include that information in the article) then by all means go for it. Please also sign your comments. Benjiboi 21:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)`


Wasnt he in class of 1990? making him in his 30's - unsigned comment from Jak3m

If you can find a reliable source that confirms it then please post it. Benjiboi 23:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] gay artist' category

I don't think it he should be in the 'gay artist' category. In interviews, he has mentioned having sex with a woman named Paige. I believe he says it in his video interview with auralsalvation.com. Here are links to the interview: http://www.auralsalvation.com/2005/11/jeffree_star_part_1/ http://www.auralsalvation.com/2005/11/jeffree_star_part_2/ http://www.auralsalvation.com/2005/11/post/

He says he's gay but that doesn't mean he's exclusive to men. The category is GLBT so he's covered even if bisexual is more accurate. Benjiboi 14:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD

Clearly this needs to go up for another AfD. A bunch of uncited information does not a worthwhile article make.--75.2.32.250 16:38, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Only one statement appears to be uncited. Most of the statements are cited properly, which is much better than most articles. I don't see this "bunch of uncited information" you describe. As for putting it up for AfD: the previous AfDs were about notability, but now, with the increased media coverage, I don't think that would work anymore. Whether people like it or not, he is now notable. You're welcome to put it up for AfD if you feel there's a case for deletion, though.
PS. I've made a header for this topic. -kotra 19:17, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

The picture from Perez Hilton has been edited; Perez is known to draw on pictures, usually words or certain 'liquids' dripping from places, always in white. This can clearly be seen in the posted photo; perhaps an unedited one should replace it? 75.8.90.63 12:12, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Good point. I hadn't noticed the white "liquids" on that picture. I've removed it. -kotra 22:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I reverted the image back to the first download, which is from his MySpace profile.--milk the cows (Talk) 21:58, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jeffree's BandMerch store.

I think it might possibly be a good idea to add into the page that Jeffree currently has a BandMerch store where he has many different Jeffree Star band merchandise for sale. The store's URL is: http://www.bandmerch.com/java2/BandMerch/jeffreestar/ Huntx 05:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

done. Benjiboi 14:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tone of the article

I commend whoever recently expanded the article to practically 5 times as long. It is much more informative now, and the some of the new references are great. However, the tone of the article is now overwhelmingly positive, like an entertainment magazine article mixed with a biography written by an admiring fan. Peacock words and phrases like "success" "gift for aesthetic beauty", and "impressive" are not very objective, nor are the numerous quotes of glowing praise (like the laughable "digital polymath" quote). The article needs some cleaning up to stick more to the facts and less to personal opinions (even, sometimes, if they're opinions presented by magazines). -kotra 00:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the compliment, I can't say I'm a fan although I do find his tenacity compelling (like Madonna's). Given the subject's trajectory I'm sure more critical press will soon emerge providing plenty of criticism. The industries he's centered in presently (fashion, make-up, modeling, internet celebrity) are not known to have insightful and critical attention from reliable sources so the article reflects that. I'm sure that once his physical album is released it will be praised and scorned and more information balancing the positive tone of the article will be readily available. The music industry is notoriously brutal to all and Star definitely will get heat even if only for his image. I think within a few months, when his album hits much more mainstream attention will give more balanced opinions on his music and plenty more material to work with. Benjiboi 00:41, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Star's next untitled album coming out will be available in stores, so I'm sure there will be reviews and information from the mainstream media coming out in the next few months. I have met Star at Warped Tour and he is a very nice person which somewhat contradicts his "I don't give a shit about you" attitude, so maybe the press will get a hold of that. The article does have some weasel words, and the quotes shouldn't be in there unless they're well known within its fan base, other wise this passes WP:BIO and WP:MUSIC (in other words, there probably won't be another AFD on this anymore since the recent one passed).--milk the cows (Talk) 01:37, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article cleanup

I cleaned up the article a lot so it's written in the right tone. Thanks for everyone that has contributed to this article, especially with referencing. I'm going to request a peer review to find other things it should be improved on before it goes up as a good article candidate.--milk the cows (Talk) 17:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to make Plastic Surgery Slumber Party a separate article again for now since in most cases albums/EPs have their own articles. It looks messy with the EP template in the article along with the main musician template at the top.--milk the cows (Talk) 18:34, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Totally disagree. This flies in the face of the just-closed AfD discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeffree Star (2nd nomination) in which the newly rewritten Jeffree Star article was to be kept and the album page deleted with information merged into this article. Although we might not agree with the decision it was a community consensus to take those action and the process should be respected. The article could be recreated once more sources sustain it's notability possibly when the physical version of the album is released (apparently slated for Oct 2007) three months from now. I suggest you reverse your edits or I will seek more experienced editors' input about what appropriate actions are appropriate. I also realize you may simply be doing what seems to make sense but the Plastic Surgery Slumber Party article has just been removed per the AfD process so please reconsider. Benjiboi 19:29, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I will revert it back for now.--milk the cows (Talk) 19:45, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. I have little doubt that it will soon enough be it's own article but the AfD was clear and wasn't even a week old. Benjiboi 20:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Genderbending, genderfuck

I read gender bender and genderfuck, trying to find the difference. I gathered from them that genderfuck is just an openly defiant or outspoken subset of gender-bending, particularly for performance purposes. Since Star seems to fit that description well, I removed "gender-bending" from "his gender-bending appearance as a genderfuck cross-dresser", because it seemed redundant. It's been changed back, though, because "Star, at times, does one or both". Am I overlooking some major aspect of his persona that can be called "gender-bending" but not "genderfuck"? I'm not totally familiar with Star or genderfuck in general, so it's possible. -kotra 19:55, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

The Genderfuck article indeed needs work so that is probably part of the issue of understanding some of the nuances. Gender-bending speaks to subtle as well as outright bending of gender rules and roles, I think there is little doubt Star does that. Genderfuck is usually over the top "fucking" with gender assumptions, roles and ideas. It can be done, as in Star's case simply with an image that if you only saw him from the neck up you would assume he is a woman but when you see his non-female breasts it's obvious he's not. The present Genderfuck article incorrectly limits the scope to a performance but Star does that as well. Genderfuck also speaks to the DIY and in-your-face attitude both of which Star has exemplified. Benjiboi 01:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I see what you mean. Star does sometimes practice gender-bending that isn't as over-the-top as genderfuck. In that case, logically the word "gender-bending" should be enough. So I've removed "genderfuck" from the sentence accordingly. Feel free to revert it if you disagree. -kotra 02:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
I do and I did. Star regularly is a gender-bender and a genderfucker. Both are appropriate and mean slightly different things. Benjiboi 02:32, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
I understand how gender-bending isn't necessarily genderfuck, but not how genderfuck isn't necessarily gender-bending. My conclusion from what you and the articles said was that genderfuck is a subset of gender-bending. Could you explain how I'm mistaken? Sorry for being dense. -kotra 17:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Part of it I would have to venture is intent (all of this would make a great thesis if I were going for a degree in Gender Studies). Gender-bending is more playing with gender roles and assumptions - sometimes purposeful, sometimes completely unintentional and, I believe, the emphasis is on the viewer to interpret. If someone assumes that pretty model is a young woman then so be it. Genderfuck is more deliberate and an outright smashing of gender confines with the subject either having no choice to choose (as they have genderfluid appearance or manerisms) or usually purposefully confounding assumptions about a person's gender. And there is less subtly open to interpretation - That pretty woman is a guy. I think this might be a "which came first the chicken or the egg" as both these concepts are new-ish and have yet to be fully dissected, compared and contrasted. There is also the added bonus that many folks use the terms interchangably but in my experience those who consider themselves genderfuckers do not see themselves as simply playing with gender or gender-benders. Another aspect is undeniably generational and cultural, it's much more punk and hip for some to be a "fucker" than a "bender." Benjiboi 01:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining. I gather from your explanation that, as I had previously assumed, gender-bending and genderfuck are basically the same idea except genderfuck is more extreme and overt, but also, against what I had assumed, one isn't necessarily a subset or a synonym of the other. So assuming your explanation is correct (though I think both terms are still ambiguous enough to make pinning down a definite meaning difficult at best), it makes some sense to keep both words. So I won't touch that sentence anymore. Also, one thing I want to note for the record is that in my experience "gender-bending" is an older (1980-85) and more well-known term than "genderfuck" which I hadn't even heard of until I saw it here. Probably in the gay community it's more common though. Thanks again for clearing it up. -kotra 03:08, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I think you may be correct that genderfuck is a newer term although both are well-represented in scholarly circles. Benjiboi 17:10, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Jeffree Star is amusing, he has inspired so many teenagers on myspace, to copy his pictures and dress like him :/

I hope one day I become more famous than Jeffree Star, without cross dressing and having pink hair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackotheripper (talk • contribs) 19:12, 31 August 2007 (UTC)