Talk:Jeane Kirkpatrick

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[edit] Violence

This article says that she and George Schultz came to physical violence, however the link that they cite as a source says "they came to blows" using quotations meaning it isn't meant to be taken literally, and what they state about it being an impeachable offense was referring to the Iran Contra funding, not any physical altercation. 216.201.12.138 07:31, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Which spelling is correct -- the one in the title or the one in the text? Deb 21:25 May 3, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks, good catch: I've fixed the misspelling in the title. I believe the proper spelling is "Jeane", since that is what her organization (http://www.empoweramerica.org/) refers to her as. However, since the other spellings of "Jeanne", and "Jean" are extremely common (even in UN security council documents!), I've made redirects from both "Jean Kirkpatrick" and "Jeanne Kirkpatrick" to this page. mprudhom

[edit] First woman?

This bio says that she was the first woman to serve as ambassador to the U.N., if that's so then what was Eleanor Roosevelt who was appointed the U.S. rep to the U.N. and who presided over the committee that hammered out the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights? 216.255.40.133 02:07, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Roosevelt was the first female Rep. to the U.N. - Kirkpatrick was the 1st femm Ambassador

It's the same thing. 216.201.33.20 22:11, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

No, not really. Kirkpatrick was a permanent representative and had the full duties of an official ambassador. But for the most part I think that Eleanor Roosevelt did as much but Jeane has just the fancy title; not to undermine what Dr. K did; both women covered a lot during their years at the UN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.62.78 (talk) 00:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

You are in fact correct, I went back and looked it up and Jeane was the ambassador to the U.N. security council, Eleanor was the U.S. delegate to the Human Rights commission, both important but entirely differant. 216.201.12.176 19:19, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Membership in Religious Organizations

I've heard that she is a member of the Order of Malta, Knights Templar and Opus Dei. She also has ties to the reverend moon's cult. I don't really have time to research it right now but it might be interesting for someone to take it up TitaniumDreads 05:13, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

She was a member of the 4th Presbyterian Church in Bethesda, Maryland.

[edit] who cares

she is getting really old, neo-retired-marxist, plus museum

Jeane J. Kirkpatrick Senior Fellow

http://www.aei.org/scholars/filter.all,scholarID.32/scholar.asp

For what it's worth, politicians’ connections with Moon and his group are all purely financial, and get to facilitate contact with his unsavoury financial supporters in Japan.

[edit] Her son's ties to religious organizations

FWIW, her son (Stuart Kirkpatrick), is a spiritual teacher for a Vajrayana Buddhist group in Ann Arbor, Michigan, Flaming Jewel, http://www.flamingjewel.org/. An affiliated Vajrayana Buddhist group (Aro gTér ) gives a brief bio of him here (http://www.aroter.org/eng/images/nyingma/trx_portrait.htm) and links him to Jeanne Kirkpatrick.

I'm not sure if this is "encyclopedic" info or not, or if it's relevant enough to Jeanne Kirkpatrick, to appear here. Neo8675 18:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

One could always tuck it into a footnote.Mowens35 19:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What the US should support

Cut from intro:

including authoritarian dictatorships.

Implies that all authoritarian governments are anti-communist - which is not something Kirkpatrick ever said, nor is it something Wikipedia ought to say.

But we need to address somehow the issue of her doctrine that it can be good to support authoritarian regimes, in certain cases. Did she say what the criteria are for that?

Also we need to address the objections given by advocates of Communism (or systems similar to it, or regimes leaning that way).

There's an un-ending debate over Communism - whether it's good or bad, or can be made good; whether systems based on it or similar to it can be made to work in a way that benefits all the people of a nation (not just the ruling class).

Ironically, Marxists say the best thing to do is to throw out the ruling class and put "the people" (proletariat) in charge (see dictatorship of the proletariat). Their opponents point to the example of the Soviet Union and its nomenclatura - just another situation where being in the ruling class gives you privileges while the masses suffer. Again, I say, the irony is that Marxists say they are trying to eliminate the class division wherein a ruling class gets the good things, while the rest of the people get much less. Uncle Ed 17:46, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Not everyone who opposes fascism is a Communist. Just because people think it's wrong to support an Augusto Pinochet or a Suharto doesn't mean they think it's right to support a Fidel Castro or a Pham Van Dong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.134.233.115 (talk) 12:23, 25 August 2006

[edit] What's missing

Nothing about totalitarianism in the article, even though I thought she was credited with creating the term - or at least championing it.

Also, her views on the UN seem to parallel those of Rev. Moon. A recent Moon speech at Lincoln Center says almost exactly the same thing about the selfish nationalism of UN member states. (I'll go dig that up next chance I get.) Uncle Ed 17:54, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

She's not credited with creating the term. I'm not sure who did - but I've read some works by Karl Popper where he uses the term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.245.189.47 (talk)

[edit] her personal life

She dated Bill the Cat in the 1980's. Surely this is encyclopedic. — Coelacan | talk 22:24, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

She dated a fictional cartoon character? - Misterboston | talk 10:10, 08 December 2006 (EST)

She sure did ;) [1] — coelacan talk — 16:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] date of death

Re the addition of her death date to the Biography section-- a friend of my family knows a member of the Kirkpatrick family, and reported Kirkpatrick's death earlier this afternoon. Ra3653s 21:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neocon?

She is categorized as a neoconservative. Does this category belong on her page? Was she really a neocon? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.121.84.53 (talk) 18:40, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Affiliations (political, etc)

Would it be helpful, and make the article easier to read, if there was a section that could summarize her transit from young socialist to mature Republican conservative? It is an interesting cycle and one for which there is much information, ie quotes from her about that personal trajectory.Mowens35 19:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Career as U.N. Ambassador?

There's almost nothing here on her actions as Reagan's ambassador to the UN. She was in the papers a lot at the time. I hope we can work on establishing her track record. It certainly would be encyclopedic to discuss her impact in her most prominent position (had she not held this position, and been controversial at the time, she would almost certainly not have made major obit status in all the major news organizations now). Rousse 17:40, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

My addition, well referenced and widely publicised in the UK anyway, that she attended the Argentine Embassy victory party on the day of the Falklands invasion, has been deleted. Why is this? Bedwasboy (talk) 11:09, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jeane Kirkpatrick, Burning in Hell?

Contrary to the eulogy offered by Michael Novak (December 8th, 2006 entry of the "On the Square" First Things blog at http://www.firstthings.com , now archived in their December 2006 blog archive.) I think that it is a highly defensible position that if there is an afterlife determined by a God whose justice can be recognized here on earth then Jeane Kirkpatrick is considerably more likely to be burning in Hell alongside Roberto D'Aubuisson -- whose neo-Nazi death squad government in El Salvador she defended and supported -- than holding conversations around the dinner table in Heaven, as Novak claims. Maybe one of Jeane Kirkpatrick's last judges will be Jean Donovan. 137.82.188.68 06:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

WOOH! Man, I hate her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MC John (talk • contribs) 17 December 2006

Actually its will probably be the other way around. Jeane Kirkpatrick was a diplomat engaged in containing the spread of Marxism, Jean Donovan was a Church woman attempting to use her position to run aid to the Fretne.

And I doubt she gives a damn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.201.48.26 (talk) 17:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

"And I doubt she gives a damn." An especially ill-suited usage of this figure of speech, given that the subject was the likelihood of Jeane Kirkpatrick's damnation. As for "probably the other way around" -- well, if you worship Moloch, maybe you might think that. But if you're a Sermon-on-the-Mount kind of Christian then I think Not. 137.82.188.68 (talk) 01:59, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Argentine Dictatorship

"It must be noted, however, that Kirkpatrick tacitly supported the broadly anti-Semitic military dictatorship in Argentina, responsible for the disappearance and death of several thousand Jews, and known to use symbols of Nazi oppression in its own concentration camps (see Feitlowitz, A Lexicon of Terror; and the testimony of Jacobo Timerman)."

I plan to delete this. It's inappropriate for at least three reasons: (1) not appropriately cited; (2) its claim is vague--broadly anti-Semitic, symbols of Nazi oppression--and borderline weaselly--responsible for the disappearance and death of several thousand Jews, said of a regime that in general disappeared and killed civilians like it was going out of style; (3) the claim is presented as unqualified fact rather than being the view of a specific author that's not even very widely shared.205.212.72.122 02:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Nonsensical Caption

A caption currently reads "When Mrs. Kirkpatrick with the men and women of the Reagan Cabinet" - not sure what this is supposed to be saying Tiki2099 15:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Declaration of War

On September 12, 2001 Jeane Kirkpatrick along with other conservatives including Jack Kemp issued a letter to Congress urging them to Declare War on the entire Islamic Fascist Newtwork, I have found excerpts online but have yet to find a complete copy online, this should be included on this page, if anyone has an online copy please include it. 216.201.48.58 (talk) 03:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:JKirkpatrickpbs.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)