Talk:Jean Ziegler

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[edit] Removed text

The Wikimedia Foundation has had a letter of complaint about this article. Having reviewed it, and the article and talk pages, the article has been stubbed. The removed text should not be replaced. The article can be worked on carefully and any verified information put back. But this should be done with maximum care and very, very careful wording. In particular, any sources should be carefully chosen and mainstream. I'm sorry to be heavy handed here, but this is not a minor issue. Please be quick to remove anything from this article that you think problematic, and slow to add anything new. Thanks all -- sannse (talk) 20:54, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Mainstream article from Time Magazine concerning Jean Ziegler: http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,957634,00.html

[edit] New edits

Cb93, thanks for your edits to this article. Some of the stuff you added is very helpful. However, some of your language wasn't exactly what we use here. It would be appropriate for a magazine article, for example, but not an encyclopedia.

As for the Gaddafi thing: can you provide a source that says he wasn't involved in it in any way? Any good source on the subject would be appreciated. It needs to be confirmed or dismissed, or the article must discuss the controversy surrounding claims and counterclaims. IronDuke 03:20, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


I understand Ziegler was on the panel that awarded first the prize and continues to be involved. UN Watch cites an article from United Press International on April 23, 1989.

Socialist deputy Jean Ziegler said a prize foundation fund in the name of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi is registered in Geneva with capital of $10 million. Annual winners will be selected and foundation capital managed by a committee of African and European politicians and intellectuals, he said. The prize is conceived as an anti-Nobel Peace Prize award for the Third World, Ziegler said in a statement. Ziegler said committee members besides himself include Sam Nujoma, leader of the Southwest African Peoples Organization (SWAPO); Robert Charvin, honorary dean of the law faculty at Nice University in France; Nasser Cid, dean of law at Khartoum University, Sudan; and Jean-Marie Bressand, founder of the twinned cities association.

Ziegler was awarded the prize in 1992 but declined it Jamahiriya News Agency in French.

I think that a sentence along the lines of "Ziegler was a member of the panel that awarded the first Kadaffi Prize [not sure what the official title is] and was awarded the prize in 1992, though he declined to accept it." I can't source his rejection of the prize although it is stated in the French wiki, and it would be erring on the side of caution. Pontificake 09:36, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Well Ziegler also vehemently denied the fact and called it "absurd". I think that is worth including: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ehUPTdNLpLA&feature=related —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trouvaille (talk • contribs) 16:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Swiss banks and the Holocaust

Speaking of reliable sources, half of this section is occupied by a citation of a critical comment about the book, coming from the site http://switzerland.isyours.com, a commercial site run by Micheloud & Co., whose activity is well described here: http://switzerland.isyours.com/e/banking/index.html As required by sannse, I'll quickly remove this part. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satanetto (talk • contribs) 20:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:BLP and UN Watch

Hi all, UN Watch is not an independent source for allegations. Referring to sannse above, care should be taken to supply this article with *independent* sources (be it CNN, NYTimes, NZZ or whatever). --Mbimmler (talk) 19:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

  • I combined both references into a single para, since it appears to originate with an agenda-driven group and has received only very limited coverage outside of that group. Guy (Help!) 23:01, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] My last addition was appropriate

Your right. I'll leave that out. However, the revision that was undone was sourced from ABC News. This is an "independent" source. I am reinstating it. (Hyperionsteel (talk) 22:51, 26 March 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Ileana Ros-Lehtinen's comments

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen is a notable person - she is a prominent Cuban-American and serves as the ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. In addition the source is legitimate (The Associated Press). I've also placed her comments in quotes and/or made clear that these are her own statements and are not facts. Also, I've added the support Ziegler received from the Swiss Government.(Hyperionsteel (talk) 01:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC))

Here is the citation I plan to insert - it is notable and is properly sourced. The fact that it doesn't paint Mr. Ziegler is a postive light doesn't mean it shouldn't be included.

In March of 2008, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, a Cuban-American and the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee sharply criticized Ziegler's appointment to as an advisor to the UN Human Rights Council. Ros-Lehtinen stated that "Mr. Ziegler has drawn criticism for his unyielding support of many of the worlds most vicious dictators. He expressed 'total support for the Cuban revolution' and its leader, Fidel Castro, whose repressive regime has left hundreds of political dissidents to languish in jail" and of failing to address famine emergencies throughout the world and of using "his platform to consistently attack America and Israel."[1]

Switzerland's Federal Department of Foreign Affairs supported Ziegler's appointment, stating that it "attaches great importance to human rights and is pleased that a Swiss candidate will be able to contribute his expertise to the committee."[1]

[edit] Direct quotes and Cuba

I cleaned up and formated the refs. These were the substantive changes:

  • Many paragraphs were direct quotes from cited news articles, but not indicated as quotes. Others were nearly direct. So I converted all those to direct quotes.
  • Some quotes were not balanced to reflect what was in the article, so I expanded those.
  • The Time quote in the "Khaddafi Prize" section was misplaced. It did not support the text before it at all. So I added a quote from the Time article.
  • I expanded the "Khaddafi Prize" description, maybe to much. The list of winners was unbalanced, notably skipping the first recipient, Nelson Mandela. Ziegler was directly involved with that choice it seems, maybe that should be in the article.
  • I removed that assertion that Ziegler's name is still on the Libyan website for winning in 2002, as I looked at it and did not see his name, just "13 writers". In any case, it's not clear he could be held responsible for that.
  • On Cuba, among Zielger's praise, he did say one mildly negative thing, so I threw that in (and it's reflected in the title of the cited article, which like most other titles, was missing).
  • On the Cuban agents at the press conference in Geneva, I added the AP's account of the UN's spokeswoman's apology. The other source is an opinion piece in the National Post, "The farce at the UNHRC".

- Colfer2 (talk) 04:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gaddafi Price

I see that there is a strong urge to highlight ostensible defects in Jean Ziegler's character (I wanted to write "slander" but decided choose a neutral formulation). I don't know whose weak character and flimsy skin cannot suffer any criticism by Ziegler, nor do I really want to.

Anyway, I noticed that all sources supplied to prove the Ziegler-Gaddafi-relationship say Neue Zürcher Zeitung (NZZ) on the surface but actually link to UN Watch, incidentally the very institute that makes the accusations in the first place. I don't think accusations prove accusations. Could anyone please supply independent sources, for example by pointing to the actual "real" NZZ pages? SomPost 18:14, 01 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ziegler is on the list - look closer at the website

Look closer at the website - Zielger is on the list as a winner in 2002 - although his name is spelt differently (as "Mr. John Ziter") - I find this to be too much of a coincidence. French Holocaust denier Roger Garaudy is listed as "Mr. Rogeh Jarrodi" which suggests that the spelling is different (or the names were mispelled.)

Look at the following webpage under the 2002 winners (I find it hard to believe that Mr. John Ziter is anyone else) http://www.gaddafiprize.org/WhoEn.htm

(Hyperionsteel (talk) 22:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC))

The source, Weekly Standard, says he won the prize in 2002 but disowned it. How is it significant that his name is or was "still" on the official web page? It is not his web page, or is he still on the board or something? I don't think Wikipedia has to copy every rhetorical flourish of the original article. Another source would be handy here. The Time short article is from 1989. -Colfer2 (talk) 23:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)