Talk:Jean Sibelius

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[edit] Sibelius was not "Finland-Swedish".

In the article it reads:

"Sibelius was born into a Finland-Swedish family ..."

At the time of Sibelius' birth the term "Finland-Swedish" didn't exist. When the term later on (by about the early 20th century) was coined, Sibelius himself didn't adopt it. If there are people who think that ancestry is, for some reason, important: Sibelius' family on father's side seems to have been Finnish (their farm in a Finnsih part of the country called "Pekkala" and his grandfather called "Janne", see http://www.sibelius.fi/suomi/suku_perhe/suku_sibelius.htm).

So, "Sibelius was born into a Swedish-speaking family ..." is clearly a more correct. Tomi Ahti 10:38, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

What's this about him being called "Janne"? I've never heard of this before. Wasn't he "Jean" to the rest of the world? JackofOz 00:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
See http://www.sibelius.fi/english/elamankaari/ "The couple decided to call their son Janne in memory of Doctor Sibelius's brother, Johan "Janne" Sibelius, who had been the captain of a merchant ship. Later on it became Janne’s habit to modify his official first names, writing them in the order Johan Julius Christian. During his student years, he began to use visiting cards which he had found in the estate of his uncle, Johan Sibelius. In the fashion of the times, his uncle had written his name on the cards using a French form. Thus Johan Christian Julius "Janne" Sibelius became known to posterity as Jean Sibelius."
Going a bit of the main question at hand, but Janne is a name that is just as swedish as it is finnish, it's not even just Finland Swedish, as its very comon in Sweden too. So that is not really an argument for anything (as you seem to imply on). Also we know Sibelius was very very strong on national romaticism, which at the time was very projected in the Finnish language (that worked as opposing russian pressure and lifting the national spirit by pushing the - at the time - "rural language" which was the scene for the national romatisicm movement that did not want to be a part of russia but did not want to "be sweden or part of sweden"). Much of the thoughts of that era are sick in todays perspective, but that still does not in any wayshrink the merits of Sibelius' music. Gillis 22:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
"Sibelius was born into a Swedish-speaking family ..." looks a bit out of place, as well. I mean, is it customary in Wikipedia to mention in the first chapter the language a person happened to speak? For example, Britannica's article about Sibelius doesn't. Oh well, I'll leave it at that, perhaps it serves some purpose.

um, excuse me, yes he was. I'm his realative and I too am "Finland Swedish"

Grandchildren (I don't know about the children) don't speak Swedish. The language used in Sibelius' home was Finnish although Janne and Aino could change to Swedish if they didn't want the kids to understand what they were saying. This is an authentic reply by one of the Sibelius' grandchildren when asked about the language issue.

[edit] Voice recordings disagree

Check [1], there are a few recorded thorough interviews with Jean/janne Sibelius. You can clearly notice that even though he speaks quite fluent Finnish he does search for words at times, just in the way most fluently finnish speaking persons that have swedish as their mother-tongue do. Sibelius attending a "finnish school" as the article says is also true with some modification as that school had the majority of its students come from swedish-speaking families with the same intentions of teaching their kids Finnish, but one can only guess what was spoken outside of class by the kids. This probably has not stopped Sibelius from teaching his children finnish with a national romantic inspiratiion. It is then debatable whetever a person suc as Sibelius should be called a or b or considered himself either. But clealry his original mother-tongue was Swedish and i think that is the widely accepted definition. Gillis 23:15, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Voice recordings disagree on what exactly? The article says clearly that he was born into a Swedish-speaking family. (And I think his Finnish was, as can be expected, pretty perfect. Although his pronunciation had this old-fashioned, strange "Swedishness" about it, the same way Paasikivi and quite a few amongst the elite in those days had, never mind what their mother tongue was.) Anyway, why is the language strife still going on in Wikipedia? Sibelius is a Finnish national symbol, punkt, piste, period. And an excellent composer too, by the way ...
Yes but this was a retort to the original posting saying that Sibelius was not a finnish-swede. Now I don't care about any language strife but i care fore facts. So are you saying his mother-tongue was finnish or swedish if a person lacks very basic words as is clear from the recording i would dare say his mother-tongue was indeed swedish. And that is stated in the article to some extent, i just do not want it to be taken away as the original post seems to argue that should be done on a non-existent basis. Gillis 11:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
But the original post, if we are referring to the same post, says that he could not have been born into a Finland-Swedish family, unless we want to start talking anachronistically about later developments. The concept just didn't exist at the time. Not publicly at least. If it did exist, it meant hatred ("saatanan ruotsi", an original 17th century expression) or despise (read Matti Peltonen). Fortunately, your Swedish-speaking (and Finnish-speaking) grandparents were in all likelihood as dirt poor and powerless as my Finnish-speaking (and Swedish-speaking) ones. Your need to identify yourself with the "Swedish" elite and its achievements is, sorry to say this, based on an illusion. Fortunately there were the kind of visionaries like Sibelius among others that could see further.

And of course Sibelius' mother tongue was Swedish. Just read the post you're opposing again.

Exactly where have i claimed that speaking Swedish made you rich or anything else for that matther? And mroe importantly i'd like it if you did not start getting personal and making guesses about my family roots (which are entirely irrelevant to this discussion). But now that you've done so the family on my grandfathers side was from Norway, and from my fathers mothers side from Russia, my mothers side is entirely from Carelia. So i have no relation to Sweden as a country. Which really brings us to the bottom line and point of my posting: Are you trying to imply that being "finland swedish" really does require ethnicity from sweden as a country? because this is the feeling that i get since your arguments follow the following rules
-You argue Sibelius was not a Finbland-Swede
-You say he was born into a Swedish-speaking family, but learned later Finnish at school to a fluent extent.
-Other than this it is evident from his speech his mother tongue was Swedish
Now please, please, point me out why he would NOT have been Finland-Swedish according to the widely used definition that someone is finland swedish merely if he a. lives in Finland a considers himself a finn. b. Speaks Swedish as hes mother-tongue. So that if a && b evaluate as true -> the person is Finland Swedish. Apparently to me this seems to do so in the case of Sibelius. Gillis 15:04, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Sibelius was not born into a Finland-Swedish family. He could not have done it because the term didn't exist at the time. That has been said three times now. If you have something against the idea of not using anachronistic concepts, please argue about that. If you want to make Sibelius a Finland-Swede later in his life, please tell why that is so important that Wikipedia should do that reevaluation against Sibelius' outspoken will. (Sorry about the rest, I was just trying to find out why this seems to be so important to you. By the way, when you say that your family came from here or there, have you ever thought that these family lines are always determined through fathers? Think about it.)
Well with the same logic he cannot be called a Finnish composer as such a term neither existed by virtue of state. But if your point is only the non-existense of the term Finland-Swede then i do agree with you. But as the term Finnish-swede really has no "ethnical meaningfullness" i find it a very light prochronism, it's a term invented aterwards for a part of the population that has de facto existed before. Much in the same way that history books often reffer to "sweden-finland". Gillis 19:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Of course Sibelius can be called a Finnish composer. That's what he wanted to be, he wanted to to contribute to Finland's sovereignty (among other things) and that's how (among other things) many Finns wanted to see him at the time. How could he have been part of Finland's nation building if Finland didn't exist?
And what's bugging you anyways? Every concept can be splintered anyway you want. There are no ethnicities, just you and me and six billion different individuals, there is no music, just separate notes. What part of Sibelius' Second Symphony do you want to call his Second Symphony? Perhaps the parts that you think represent his ethnicity or whatever it is that makes you happy? Or should we honor his own will and call the whole piece the Second Symphony? Should we call Sibelius' parents Finland-Swedes when they themselves didn't even know the concept? Is it up to us?
And, yes, it's anachronistic to use the term Sweden-Finland. If you find it in Wikipedia, please, correct it - unless the idea of the writer is to emphasize a provincial viewpoint. Oh well, correct it anyways. The idea can be said without retorting to anachronistic concepts. And, oh yes, the pupils of Hämeenlinnan lyseo in the middle of Häme could not have been "mostly Swedish speaking" when Sibelius studied there.

And what did you mean in the first place when you wrote that those recordings disagree? On what?

This discussion is now going round n' round in circles. First you make a big fuzz about Sibelius not being Swedish-speaking or so it appears. And when that is corrected you chenge the fuzz into being about the anachronism of the Finnish-Swedish term. Being such a purist with anachronisms is really unnecessary in historical texts such terms can be used when it can be expected by people to know them, for every mans dictionary like wikipedia that can be corrected by notes etc. when necessary. But however anything stands i am happy with the article as it is now, and if you also are we can very well leave it at that. All i wanted to point out was that Sibelius indeed spoke Swedish as his mother tongue, albeit he did want to promote the Finnish language in a national romantic era, which can be seen in him teaching it to his children etc. .
And regarding the claim about the school it is something i've heard before, but the closest i can come to it is from the Finnish wikipedia the quote <quote>Alakoulusta hän jatkoi Hämeenlinnan normaalilyseoon, jossa vielä hänen aikanaan oli jälkiä 1870-luvun kielisodista: pääosin ruotsinkielistä oppilaskuntaa kasvatettiin vahvassa fennomaanisessa hengessä.</quote>, i take it you udnerstand Finnish as you know where H'me is. For some reason my tilda\s aint working //Gillis
I never even implied that his mother tongue was not Swedish. Where did you get that idea from? But I'm happy that what I was trying to say finally got across. I shall delete this discussion in a short while because it's just a bunch of misunderstandings. OK?
Okay by me! I think we\ve had a few missunderstandings yes. But the voice recordigns could be left into the article in some way as external links or something, since they are as such indeed quite interesting. I just suspected you were one of the lingual revisionists such as the ones that change the name of Swedish noblemen in Finland\s history such as the ones trying to change Jacob Magnus Sprengtporten into Jaakko Mauno Portinrikkoja, speak about anachronisms! //Gillis

[edit] "French uncle"

His uncle wasn't French, in fact, but a sailor. Therefore, the uncle used a French version of his name as it was easier for other people to understand. And probably more elegant sounding as well, to him at least. Young Sibelius found his uncle's business cards, saw the name Jean, and decided to use it. Source: Tawastjerna's biography of Sibelius.--Wormsie 22:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect "Sibelius" to this article?

I think that makes the most sense. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to do it. I tried to do it by renaming the previous article entitled Sibelius (which was a disambiguation page) "Sibelius (disambiguation." Then I tried to redirect the old Sibelius article to this page, but for some reason it redirects to Sibelius (disambiguation). I can't figure out why this is. If anyone could help me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Smedley Hirkum 01:53, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Seems like it's working now, right? Setting up a redirect is documented somewhere in the Wikipedia docs. Andrewski 22:15, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Relation to the Sibelius notation software?

Does the music notation software named Sibelius have any connection with Jean Sibelius? Was its name inspired by it?

I ask this because I came across this article by typing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibelius thinking that I'd read about the notation software (where instead I discover Jean Sibelius), and I only came across the notation software after reading the article on the Finale notation program. Not to mention that this article has no reference to the notation software.

See Sibelius (disambiguation) for other uses of the name. It's listed at the top of the article. Andrewski 22:13, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
The twin brothers who invented the Sibelius notation software have the surname Finn. 90.205.92.216 (talk) 23:25, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I added a cleanup notice due to the numerous incomplete sentences and other peculiarities.--Wormsie 15:07, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sibelius was not "Finland-Swedish", neither "Finnish" actually.

Well, if we have a look at the nationality Finland was part of Russia in 1865 and continued to be Russian up to 1917. Finland gained its independence two days before Janne was 52. I keep wondering why the "Finnishness" is such an important issue...

It also continued to be Finland while it was part of the Russian state (or Swedish state). Its own statehood came about because of the Finnish nationality (m-w.com definition 5 a : a people having a common origin, tradition, and language and capable of forming or actually constituting a nation-state b : an ethnic group constituting one element of a larger unit (as a nation ) ). Nationality and statehood are not exactly the same thing. -- JHunterJ 21:44, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
It's worth to note the term Finland was not even used in any way during the swedish age... you could say it was introduced as the name for the autonomy. But that's getting sidetracked... Gillis 11:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC) ps tompii or whatever your name was please sign your comments.
And besides, Finland was never, strictly speaking, part of Russia, but a Grand Duchy with its own laws and government. But, yes, I can see your point. Let's start calling Sibelius a Russian composer!
That's stretching the concept of autonomy quite a bit. It's like saying the åland islands are not a part of Finland, and you could argue they today have a greater degree of autonomy than Finland had in those days. Gillis 11:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

"It's worth to note the term Finland was not even used in any way during the swedish age". Total nonsense. Grand Prince of Finland was actually included among the King of Sweden´s titles since the late 16th century (I think Johan III was the first one to bear it). Finland was a well-established geographical concept already in the "Swedish age".--217.112.249.156 19:30, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Conceptual "Finland" roughly in its current meaning was only established around the mid-17th century. During the Swedish era, it had official borders only in the mid-16th century (for the John's duchy, covering just Finland Proper, Satakunta and western Uusimaa), but after that it had no official existence before 1809. --Drieakko 13:27, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
And yes, the Drand Duke of Finland was used sporadically by Kings and Queens of Sweden roughly from the 1580, but it was purely nominal and no geographical or administrative context was ever added to it during the Swedish era. --Drieakko 13:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Drieakko expressed it better than me, but yes that was my point. That point was t oestablish that the idea of Finland as a separate country belonging to any other country came considerably late in the swedish era. The fact that kings used terms such as grand duke of Finland was prbabvly more an act of showwign of. (Check old finnish laws approved by the tsar, the tsar had quite a few terms under his buckle since at the third row of text it says etc.etc.). Also when speaking about the "word Finland" to describe Finland of today on the premises that the word existed as early as the middle-ages, but it was used to describe a small part of todays Finland, It described some of the enviroments around Turku. So Swedish kings claimed to be emperors of Finland, Häme and Carelia (which actually were gographically much larger parts of todays Finland. Finland considered considered shortly a separate part of Sweden during the time of Gustaf Wasas sons were in competition of the crown of Sweden. But I think we're getting a bit too far off from Janne Sibelius here. Gillis 16:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] To split or to not split infinitives

I restored this sentence:

In this way Sibelius sought to radically simplify the internal
construction of the music.

instead of this correction:

In this way Sibelius radically sought to radically simplify
the internal construction of the music.

Moving radically before sought changes the meaning. If the split infinitive must be avoided,

In this way Sibelius sought to simplify the internal construction
of the music radically.

is a possibility, but a rewrite-from-scratch of the sentence would be clearer, IMO.

I also switched rumour back to rumor. Since Sibelius is neither British nor American, the style of the first major contributor should be maintained. -- JHunterJ 20:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Technically, I think this might be better and still retaining its meaning:

In this way Sibelius sought to simplify radically the internal
construction of the music.

However, I think that's more awkward and that's why I constructed that sentence that way in the first place (if I wrote it; can't quite remember). I generally hate split infinitives though; any thoughts? Andrewski 22:29, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

What I actually changed it to was:
In this way Sibelius radically sought to simplify the internal
construction of the music.
However, like Andrewski, I can live with this particular split infinitive. Alternatively, which may be considered better, it could be changed to:
Sibelius was radical in the way he sought to simplify the internal
construction of the music.
Any objections?
Re: "rumour" vs. "rumor" - I note what you say, but this phrase only appeared relatively recently. The only other blatant Americanism is "... was sketched from the motive of the statue in Don Giovanni sneaking by moonlight", which I must confess to not having the faintest idea what this might mean (I know what "sneaking about" means, and I know what "sneakers" are, but neither accords with my understanding of the plot of Mozart's opera). I therefore propose to amend "... and rumor has it that ..." to "... and it is understood that ...". Any objections? 195.217.52.130 15:56, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Why don't we just blow a hole in this debate and take it out altogether? I wasn't aware of this before, but weasel words are discouraged on Wikipedia. That just leaves us to cite that quote.... --Andrewski 22:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
How about, "Sibelius sought radical simplification of the music's internal structure."? --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 12:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. I say go ahead and make the change. Andrewski 13:37, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately I disagree. Whilst "Sibelius sought radical simplification of the music's internal structure." is undoubtedly true (almost to the point of a truism), I think the point that the original author of the sentence with the split infinitive was making was that Sibelius is often seen as purely reactionary compared to many of his contemporaries (through writing in a strictly major:minor tonal idiom, unlike the Second Viennese School, Debussy, Vaughan Williams or Ives for example, but avoiding the melodic, harmonic and temporal expansiveness of, say, Mahler and Strauss). However, he was radical in that he made the internal structure of his music as simple and as self-contained as possible, distilling everything down to a few motivic ideas, then permitting the music to grown organically. This contrast is completely lost in the most recent edit. I would be reasonably happy with "Sibelius was radical in seeking simplification of the music's internal structure.", though would prefer something marginally more explicit. 195.217.52.130 12:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I like what you've written right here. Why not put that--or some form thereof--in the article? :) --Andrewski 22:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eighth Symphony?

I was surprised there wasn't anything mentioned about the protracted history and eventual destruction of Sibelius's Eighth Symphony. Has this been considered for this article? Just wondering. Thanks. Jonyungk 01:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

There's already an article on it. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 03:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

Per WP:TRIVIA, one of two things should happen with that section: it should be erased (the uncited, unreliable, unencyclopedic parts) or integrated into the text (the better parts). Lists of facts, though, do not belong in an encyclopedic biography. Biruitorul 14:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

True. But deleting the whole section with an edit summary of "why cares?" is not one of those options. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 15:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Oh, please. Yes, a possible WP:CIV violation, but that doesn't mean the excision itself was invalid. Here, let's try a nicer edit summary and see your reaction. Biruitorul 21:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
It's not worth arguing about. I for one thing the stigma against so-called trivia is quite harsh, especially the varying weight some people like to give it ([2] for instance). Someone proposed a trivia Wikia. Not sure if it's up and running yet, but transwiking that sort of thing isn't a bad idea. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 22:30, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, let's try this. I'm putting the trivia here for whoever may want to use it constructively. Certainly number one and seven might fit in somehwere, and if a Londoner wants to take and ulpoad a picture of the blue plaque, that could work too.

*An image of Sibelius, designed by the Finnish graphic designer Erik Bruun, was used as the motif for the 100 markka bank note in Finland's final markka series.

  • Sibelius, a 2003 Finnish film, was the first feature film covering the life of Sibelius, directed by Timo Koivusalo.
  • In the 2003 movie Sibelius, Jean Sibelius is portrayed as having a poor knowledge of the Swedish language while speaking the Finnish language fluently, when in fact the situation was the other way around. Sibelius' mother-tongue was Swedish.
  • Sibelius is known for the quote "Art is the signature of civilizations"
  • A small park named "Sibelius Square" in the composer's honor stands in the downtown Toronto, Ontario, Canada neighborhood known as the Annex.
  • The first movement of the Karelia suite is used as theme tune to the Chilean sports program "Zoom Deportivo". Also, Finlandia was used as theme tune to the Chilean political debate program "A esta hora se improvisa".
  • There is a blue plaque at 15 Gloucester Walk, Kensington, London commemorating Sibelius's stay there in 1909.

Biruitorul 07:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Submission from Wikipedia:Articles for creation

I received the following submission, which I am forwarding to the regular editors of this article for consideration. The source appears reliable. The author is 217.200.200.56 (talk) 03:46, 5 December 2007 (UTC).

In his life Sibelius composed about 200 works (from 1880 to 1957), including orchestral and instrumental pieces. Sibelius reviewed his compositions many times, so in some case there are more versions of the same work; where is possible it gives the various versions. This list shows the compositions by opus number, the other works (without an opus number) are listed in alphabetical order.

[edit] Sibelius compositions, by opus number

  • Op. 1, Five Christmas songs
    • No. 1 Nu står jul vid snöig port (1913)
    • No. 2 Nu så kommer julen (1913)
    • No. 3 Det mörknar ute (1897)
    • No. 4 Julvisa: Giv mig ej glans, ej guld, ej prakt (Christmas hymn: Give me no splendour, gold or pomp) (1909).
      • Arrangement for male choir in 1935, for female choir in 1942, for children's choir in 1954.
    • No. 5 On hanget korkeat, nietokset (High are the snowdrifts) (1901).
      • Arrangement for two voices and piano in 1903-05, arrangement for female voices in 1942.
  • Op. 2, Two pieces for violin and piano
    • No. 1 Romance in B minor (1888), revised version in 1911.
    • No. 2 Epilogue (1888), revised version 1911.
  • Op. 3, Arioso for soprano and string orchestra (1911).
    • Arrangement for voice and piano 1911.
  • Op. 4, String quartet in B flat major (1890).
    • Adaptation of the 3rd movement for string orchestra Presto [Scherzo]1894.
  • Op. 5, Six impromptus for piano (1893)
    • No. 1 in G minor
    • No. 2 in G minor
    • No. 3 in A minor
    • No. 4 in E minor
    • No. 5 in B minor
    • No. 6 in E major
      • Adaptation for string orchestra of the movements 5 and 6 (Impromptu) 1894
  • Op. 6, Cassazione for orchestra (1904)
  • Op. 7, Kullervo Symphony (1892)
  • Op. 8, Ödlan (1909)
  • Op. 9, En Saga, symphonic poem for orchestra (first version in 1892 and final version in 1902)
  • Op. 10/11, Karelia music (1893)
    • overture (see op. 10) and eight tableaux (arrangement: see op. 11)
  • Op. 10, Karelia, overture for orchestra (1893)
  • Op. 11, Karelia, Suite for orchestra (1894)
    • 1. Intermezzo
    • 2. Ballade
    • 3. Alla marcia
  • Op. 12, Piano sonata in F major (1893)
  • Op. 13, Seven songs to words by Runeberg
    • No. 1 Under strandens granar (1892)
    • No. 2 Kyssens hopp (1892)
    • No. 3 Hjärtats morgon (1891)
    • No. 4 Våren flyktar hastigt (1891)
      • Arrangement for song with orchestra in 1914
    • No. 5 Drömmen (The Dream) (1891)
    • No. 6 Till Frigga (1892)
    • No. 7 Jägargossen (The Hunter Boy) (1891)
  • Op. 14, Rakastava (The Lover) for string orchestra (1912)
    • 1. Rakastava
    • 2. Rakastetun tie
    • 3. Hyvää iltaa - jää hyvästi
  • Op. 15, Skogsrået (The Wood Nymph), symphonic poem (ballad) for orchestra (1894-95)
  • Op. 16, Vårsång (Spring Song) for orchestra
    • First version (Improvisation) in 1894
    • Second version (Kevätlaulu / Spring Song) in 1985
    • Final version in 1903
  • Op. 17, Seven songs
    • No. 1 Se'n har jag ej frågat mera (1891-92)
      • Arranged as a song with orchestra in 1903.
    • No. 2 Sov in! (1891-92)
    • No. 3 Fågellek (1891)
    • No. 4 Vilse (1st version in 1898, final version in 1902)
    • No. 5 En slända (1904)
    • No. 6 Illalle (1898)
    • No. 7 Lastu lainehilla (1902)
  • Op. 18, Six songs for male choir
    • No. 1 Sortunut ääni (1898)
      • Arrangement for mixed-voice choir in 1898.
    • No. 2 Terve kuu (1901)
    • No. 3 Venematka (Boat-ride) (1893)
      • Arrangement for mixed-voice choir in 1914.
    • No. 4 Saarella palaa (1895)
      • Arrangement for mixed-voice choir in 1898.
    • No. 5 Metsämiehen laulu (1899)
    • No. 6 Sydämeni laulu (The Song of My Heart) (1898)
      • Arrangement for mixed-voice choir in 1904.
  • Op. 19, Impromptu for female choir and orchestra (1910)
  • Op. 20, Malinconia, for cello and piano (1900) (original name Fantasia)

[edit] References

Shalom (Hello • Peace) 15:58, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LisaFin's changes

User:LisaFin made a large change to the article. I admit, I didn't read what was changed, but it DID make the article look like an essay, and move the contents well past half way down. The lead is already quite large, as it stands. Feel free to incorporate new and better info into the article, but DO try and keep to style guidelines. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 17:14, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

It looks to me like it was an attempt to add content, but instead replaced almost the entire article, removing formatting, citations, images, wikification, etc. I'd suggest to LisaFin: if you'd like to work on the article, please do: discuss here what you are doing, maybe approach it a paragraph at a time. Lisa, editing big articles is usually done best by using the section edit feature (there's an "edit" button on individual sections). Welcome to Wikipedia Lisa, and thanks all, Antandrus (talk) 17:34, 1 January 2008 (UTC)