Talk:Jay Chou

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[edit] Origin

Jay Chou was born in Taiwan. So Taiwan is his origin, not the Republic of China. Taiwan is independant from China, so why should he be from China? Taiwan is not a part of Chian

Taiwan is the same political entity as the Republic of China. Mainland China as we know it is the People's Republic of China. For the sake of political correctness, we wikipedians prefer the name that maintains a NPOV, which in this case, is the ROC. When a person says ROC, both pro-independence and anti-independence people know exactly what you're referring to. When a person says, "I'm from Taiwan," it may send mixed signals that one is pro-independence, which would trigger further debate from anti-independence people. Soapboxing on a Taiwanese singer's page is NOT what we need. Wikipedia is for information purposes only, NOT a place to express political views. -Pandacomics 04:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think saying "I'm from Taiwan" is pro-independence, I've heard many pro-unification people say they are from Taiwan.--Jerry 19:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I second Jerry. Besides, it's more specific of his origin to say Taiwan. For goodness sake's, he sometimes raps in Taiwanese. Cariel (talk) 19:22, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Comments from 2004

Great, somebody who knows info about Jay Chow! I was dissappointed when I couldn't find a WP entry for this celebrity so I created a stub page for him; even though I know very little. --Comrade-HW 01:53, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

u can find a lot of info by the external links. including his diary (in English)! ;) u r his fan? ;) --Yacht 04:36, Mar 28, 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm not a big fan, but yes, I like his music. --Comrade-HW 07:48, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I thought his surname was Zhou, in SI. But oh well. I have even spoken to people from East-Asia over Skype and they all refer to him as Jay Zhou. --Scotteh 10:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heavy dislike for Profile section

It honestly appears to me that someone decided to copy/paste the profile from another site (or compiled from many sites). I have doubts that some of the information is authentic. Also, does anyone really care that much about Jay (don't get me wrong, I love Jay) to want to know about what he collects? Surely, it is a "contribution", but to have a "contribution" based on a simple copy/paste command and a search query in Google just doesn't seem right. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stevay (talk • contribs) 20:04, 20 November 2004 (UTC)

Cripes, this article is a bit... uhrm, in requirement of cleaning up. I agree that the Profile page needs to be removed, due to Wikipedia's frowning upon copy/pasting (and also I don't really think we need to know Chou's favourite food is fried chicken); I also find the "Jay's mama doesn't like him dating Patty" thing a bit awkward. Anyway then, fixing up this article. -Grumpyhan 16:19, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Patty Hou

Did Jay really "break up" with Patty Hou on Feb. 21? I somehow have my doubts due to the fact that jay-chou.net keeps adding more and more news about their relationship. Stevay 01:38, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chou or Chow?

What exactly is the official surname? Both versions are scattered around the article and I'm not sure if I want to edit it as I'm unsure which is correct. --Grumpyhan 06:13, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I personally think it's "Chou". Most people pronounce it the same way "Chow" is pronounced, as if it were Cantonese. A lot of places use "Chou" though, as it is the proper Wade-Giles romanization (which is used in Taiwan). Stevay 00:49, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
i think it's "Chou" as well. And i think the article should be moved to "Jay Chou". --Plastictv 04:09, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Well, it's not actually pronounced as "Chow", at least not in Mandarin. I'd prefer if the Wade-Giles system were to be abandoned. I prefer Zhou. Illusionz 02 Aug 2005 (UTC)


In Hanyu Pinyin, it should be Zhou, but since (I don't know why) Tawainese pinyin is a bit different and uses "ch" for "zh" sounds, and Jay's Taiwanese, I reckon the official spelling should be "Chou." Chow can be ignored; it seems to be just the screwed up English pinyin stuff. Haha =P

Shawn 01:07, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

"Chow" is the French romanization which dated back 400 years ago from the French missionaries, and is still used in Hong Kong (which also sounds similar to Cantonese). Jay Chou (Taiwan) is known as "Jay Chow" in Hong Kong. If anything, this romanization system dates back much older than Hanyu Pinyin or Wade Giles. I don't know how French romanization can be remotely close to "screwed up English pinyin stuff."--Ruthless4Life 08:23, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Oh I already posted this somewhere else on the page:
I thought his surname was Zhou, in SI. But oh well. I have even spoken to people from East-Asia over Skype and they all refer to him as Jay Zhou. --Scotteh 10:36, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

In fact ,i'm a Chinese,Jay is one of of our courtry ,not Taiwanese, you know ,Taiwan is a part of China ,Jay also says he is a Chinese ,so in our language,it is pronounced as"Zhou jielun(周杰伦)and "周杰倫"is also OK, but in the mainland we do not write 周杰倫while the people in Taiwan province write 周杰倫,but 周杰倫and 周杰伦are the sameas people in taiwan province also speak and write Chinese as we do.my English is not well enough ,so can you understand me?If someone really likes Jay,add me please, my MSN is:Blue_icy_summer@hotmail.com. As i'm a Chinese, i can get the information of him quicker than you do.If you add me,i can tell you a lot of news of him ,and show you many pictures of him ,they are really cool!

I'm not going to start a Taiwan is independent thing here, but he is from TAIWAN, and uses TAIWANESE spelling, also, don't start insulting the sovereignty of one nation. I happen to be from Taiwan, and our cultures happen to be VERY different to Chinese cultures, so I find offense that you would spit on his heritage in favor of your narrow-minded views. It's the same if you go to the UK and Ireland, they are right next to one another, but have their own nuances ReshenKusaga (talk) 00:55, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I know this is a bit late, but you could use Zhou (since it's the Mandarin spelling of his last name), but he is known as Jay CHou. I've never heard of anyone spelling his name with a w. :) Weezcake 01:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Traditional Chinese name

Is the proper traditional Chinese name of Jay Chou 周傑倫 or 周杰倫? An anonymous editor had left a comment within the article stating that the latter was the correct name, which is not currently reflected within the article. Hall Monitor 16:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

it is 周杰倫. ([Alfa Bio]) --69.86.166.184 04:09, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Wonderful, thank you for providing a source for this information as well! Best regards, Hall Monitor 16:05, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
The first is traditional (Taiwan, Hong Kong), the latter is simplified (China).--Ruthless4Life 08:24, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
It should remain 周杰倫 because that is how he is credited on his CDs and other marketing material. Cariel 19:11, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually, 周杰倫 is traditional, not simplified. 周傑倫 is a completely different name. Just for clarification.eminemjamesuk 23:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I downloaded a song by him. It read "周杰伦". --Scotteh 10:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
That is the simplified version of the name. -Arsonal 05:27, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
His name is officially Jay Chou 周杰倫
Because some traditional characters get simplified in common usage (other examples is 臺 -> 台 and 壹-> 一); this should not be confused with the government-induced simplification of PRC.
HOWEVER, some other musicians keep the traditional "jie" in their name (e.g. Sam Hui 許冠傑 and JJ Lin 林俊傑).
I am about 99% sure of the above information. Anyone can verify? Kareeser|Talk! 21:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
P.S.: please make sure all his songs and album names are in traditional chinese. they were distributed from the ROC, not PRC. and please take the political discussions to another page.

[edit] Patty Hou

Currently Jay Chow is having a relationship with Patty Hou. Under Patty Hou's wiki it says "Patty Hou Pei Cen (侯佩岑; pinyin: Hóu Pèicén) is a former news anchor in Taiwan who is best known for her beauty and her relationship with Taiwanese R&B singer Jay Chou." I see why there is no reference to her on his website in turn? Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.156.6.54 (talk • contribs) 02:17, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

but we should admit that Jay also says " I'm Jay Chou from Taiwan Province of China" so those people who say Taiwan is independent should know the history of China firstly

[edit] Taiwan

Stevay, you have reverted my edits three times and I thought it wise to discuss on the talk page instead. By listing "China, Taiwan" it gives the impression that China and Taiwan are separate nations. Also, if just listed as "China", it would already include Hong Kong SAR, which is listed separately, then separately listing HK implies that it is not part of china, which is why I see the need to insert "mainland". The ROC Govt has, in its organisational structure, a Taiwan Province. The PRC Govt also has Taiwan Province as a province. Please see Taiwan Province. That Taiwan is a province of China is agreed by both the ROC and PRC, so saying "Taiwan, Province of China" it clarifies the situation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JSIN (talk • contribs) 09:03, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I was about to bring up Hong Kong. Look at the article of "Taiwan, Province of China". It doesn't even fit in the context of this article. Why are we talking politics in an article on Jay Chou? If you really wanted to talk politics or government in a Taiwanese artist's article, you might as well just go to A-Mei's article.
You are also in fact misconstruing the article of "Taiwan, Province of China". Okay, so the PRC and ROC agree that there is a Taiwan province in their organizational structure. However, there's still the entire controversy (dare I use that word) over whether Taiwan is an independent nation, and you cannot say "since they both have a province of Taiwan in their government, Taiwan is definitely a Chinese province". The "province of China" remark is NOT agreed upon by both the PRC and ROC; that is a complete fallacy because what "province of China" means to both is under a completely different context. The fact that there exists the Taiwan Province article is a bit odd, because that article itself is not well-written. Read the first line of the article. "...existing administrative division under the government of the Republic of China or the claimed 23rd province of the People's Republic of China." We have two completely different contexts for this "province".
We want to make the link to a Taiwan article fit in Jay Chou's context, i.e. geography. With the entire question of sovereignty for Taiwan, it would be more "neutral" if we had just used a geographical article than an article obviously ill-formed enough to let others derive "since Taiwan is a province in the ROC, and the PRC, it is therefore a province of China". Well, there's just one problem. Define "China". Also, consider the number of times the article Taiwan is linked to in Jay Chou's article already. Are we going to replace every single instance with Taiwan Province, and then manage to confuse or possibly offend all the potential readers of the article? You talked about being "neutral" earlier (albeit, using the fallacy that ambiguity implies neutrality); the fact that you cannot do it now is hypocritical.
And this is coming from a mainlander who believes that Taiwan is a province of the PRC. Stevay (Talk) 20:39, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I know that there are two different contexts for "Taiwan Province", and so without stating which context it is both factual and neutral. However, I will make a different edit to which I hope you will agree. JSIN 07:34, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I think the new edit is fine, but that doesn't resolve the rest of the "Taiwans" in the article. However, I completely disagree about the misinformation of the context. That does not make it factual or neutral, it makes it misleading. Stevay (Talk) 19:24, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I say we use Taiwan instead of "Republic of China". I honestly had no idea why anyone would use ROC, although apparently it's used by both sides. However, I (and probably most people) do know what Taiwan is. It'll make the article less confusing. We are not saying that Taiwan is a seperate nation, etc. Besides, if someone was from Puerto Rico, you'd say that they were from Puerto Rico, not the United States (since PR is a US territory). Weezcake 23:47, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Would "Taiwan [R.O.C.]" make everyone happy? The only trouble is when we get to sentences like, for example, "Jay Chou is a Taiwanese singer", do we say "Jay Chou is a Taiwanese [R.O.C.] singer"?. I don't want to involve myself in this edit war because I'm from neither Taiwan or Mainland China, so I take no sides, but this is just a suggestion. When we take this article for Feature Article nomination, the reviewers are not going to like edit wars, so it's best to deal with this now. SeleneFN 14:36, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

This is an article about an artist, and he's not involved in politics in anyway, at least that I know of. Conventionally, Taiwan is the term that is more widely used than Republic of China, and even media and journals use the name Taiwan. This topic has come up in a lot of places in Wikipedia. Technically, Taiwan is a part of China, not necessarily the country, but of the culture, language, and heritage. Jay Chou uses 中國風 to define some of his styles, but many would argue that he's not Chinese but Taiwanese.
I will not take a stance on this issue, but for the sake of the article, I think 'Taiwan' alone will suffice. If people wanted to know the difference between China, Taiwan, People's Republic of China, and the Republic of China, there are specific, very well-written pages in wikipedia that can explain that. LG-犬夜叉 21:51, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. We are not trying to do anything political, but the fact is that he is from a place called Taiwan. This does not imply that it is part of China or an independent country (I could care less), but rather that he was born in Taiwan. If someone wrote a page about me, it would say that I was from San Francisco, not the United States. Weezcake 22:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I too agree on using Taiwan. "Republic of China" is a cumbersome mouthful for this non-political article. We've waited for a week for arguments against using Taiwan. Seeing that there isn't any, I think we can decide to settle on using "Taiwan" instead of ROC from now on. Anyone with a spare bit of time should go change all the current uses of ROC to Taiwan. However, I do expect people will try to use ROC anyways... I guess we'll just have to be change it back whenever we see this happen. SeleneFN 21:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Personally I've NEVER heard of anyone using ROC for Taiwan until I started reading all these arguments for and against the Taiwan movement. Good call :) Weezcake 16:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

Ye Qu is too small to be a stand-alone article. It needs to be merged here instead. ˑˑˑ日本穣 Talk to Nihonjoε 20:44, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

We have articles on songs. A song as popular as this one deserves an article. If this is to be merged with anything, it should be merged with the album November's Chopin, not the singers bio--Jiang 04:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I too agree that Ye Qu should be merged with November's Chopin album page. The album pages should be expanded anyways because it is short, and notes about individual songs would work nicely. At any rate, if you must leave Ye Qu in its own article, please write about it in Wikipedia style with more citations and references, commenting on its cultural impact, etc. If you cannot find anything written about it in news and editorials, it is likely because this song (however beautiful it may be) should not be on its own page. This song simply does not have as much of a cultural impact as other more serious works by Chou, such as "Dad, I'm Back".

The same applies for the page for "Hair Like Snow". Please refrain from describing the song as "very amazing and just great". The description about the music video sounds like someone's fanpage and can be written more succinctly. This should be merged with the "November's Chopin" CD page as well.

SeleneFN 00:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Julian Labrin?

This wiki contains: "his innovative usage of the famous classical pieces from the late composer Julian Labrin (1786)". I couldn't find any information on this composer and the link of this composer doesn't work. I wonder if there is such a composer at all...... Kw02 14:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)kw02Kw02 14:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Nope, he doesn't exist; might as well remove it. Stevay (Talk) 17:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

(Comment Removed)


[edit] The Album Section

hello all. Is it just me, or does the albums section section look messy? i have some ideas about "cleaning" the look of it up here...suggestions/ the go ahead to change it on the article? zeChinaman 03:16, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jay Chou Main Pic

The Current Picture doesn't do justice to jay chou.

he looks like generic rapper with hat covering his face.

maybe a mugshot of some sort would be more fitting

[edit] Popularity overseas?

Quote: "He is also very popular among Overseas Chinese in the United States, United Kingdom, Australia and Canada."

Is there some source for this, I can't say I've ever heard of him (UK), nor have I seen any of his CD's in any music retailers.

I don't think I've ever seen his CD in stores either, but that's mainly because the American music scene isn't very fond of Asian singers. They don't do very well here. But if you talk to ABCs (American Born Chinese) here, most of them know who he is and are familiar with his music. I'm sure the British audiences are similar? Weezcake 01:09, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About Steven Spielberg

I have removed this sentence from the article: STEVEN SPIELBERG HAS DENIED THIS. PLEASE VERIFY INFORMATION BEFORE REPORTING IT. it seems that someone is quite upset about that. please rephrase this sentence and put it back. thanks. --User:Yacht (talk) 06:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

A reference section is proposed to be added. where sources could be citedRealdan 07:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

A reference section has been added. Unattributable claims or attributable ones from poor sources should not be cited. Chou is adequately famous to be citable from good sources. SeleneFN 01:24, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Instruments

For the instruments there's listed piano, cello, and acoustic guitar. In this vid he's playing this flute thingy... don't know it's name so can someone take a look at it and add. Here's this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JZ1FzhZMLM he plays at 3:50 to the end. Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.131.29.52 (talk) 20:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Time magazine article

There is so much information in that one article that it's a total waste to just say "he's notable, just look at this time article yourself." There's stuff in that article that talks about the amount of freedom he has in creating his music videos, as well as how he creates his music, IN ADDITION to the story where Jacky Wu first discovered him. -Pandacomics 00:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. The article is excellent and more information can be pulled from it. Please see my comment on Article Length. SeleneFN 01:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article length

The article is beginning to get long (read Wikipedia:Article size) and will likely be expanded. I propose we move all information about the albums to its respective pages, directing the readers to them with relevant links. The albums themselves really deserve room for detailed descriptions.

The extra space can be devoted to expanding Chou's biography. As said by Pandacomics in this discussion page, there is a lot of information in the Time magazine article (plus several others I have come across) that can be effectively used to expand his biography.

SeleneFN 01:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I think the article is quite decent, if you think this article is getting too long, take a look at Angelina Jolie, her article is a featured article and it contains much more information than what this page has about Jay.
However, I am not saying to be a featured article, that it must be long, Eric Bana is also a featured article, but it's much shorter than even the Jay Chou article.
Anyways, I think the Jay Chou article in its current form is quite decent, very informative about his music styles, but then again I have heard most of his songs. Great Job overall, I would contribute but it's been a while since I did any serious editing.
LG-犬夜叉 01:02, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Another solution that I propose is that we take what's "good" from the pre-Selene Jay Chou biography, and just trash the rest. The trashing is just because the writing there is just so out-of-flow that it would simply benefit from a complete re-write, with sources. And if one had not noticed already, the pre-Selene biography section is the huge chunk without references. Also, we have more than enough good sources to work with to revamp this article. - Pandacomics 01:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


I agree with a major revamp effort proposed by Pandacomics, especially for the biography section. I hesitate to call on a complete re-write for diplomacy reasons - those who have contributed writing seem to hit on all the right points - but I do feel we can expand in a number of areas and improve credibility significantly. I have a number of ideas for sections to add or revamp, and I have incorporated them into what is our current (as of 2007-03-05) outline. Please feel free to add, change, comment - these are merely ideas.


----Biography (propose major revamp, writing mostly on Chou's pre-music career) done
----Music Career
---------Albums --> (provide link to respective album pages)
---------Musical Style (written)
---------Lyrics (written)
---------Collaborations (revamp - write on people that Chou is trained or composed for) done
----Other Ventures (to be added?)
---------Movie Career (to be added? actor, director) currently writing (SeleneFN 05:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC))
---------Book: Grandeur de D Major (written)
---------Endorsements (Motorola, Colgate, Warcraft, etc.) (to be added?) done
---------Shops (Antique shop, restaurant) (to be added?) Insufficient material
----Media and Public Relations
---------Public image (to be added - I (seleneFN) has started writing)done
---------Accolades (written)
---------Fanbase (written)
---------Response to the News Media and Paparazzi (written)
----Discography (revamp? only minor changes needed? needs tidying?) done
---------Albums
---------EPs
---------Live albums
---------Other works
----Filmography (revamp? only minor changes needed? needs tidying?) can stay as is.
----External links (revamp? only minor changes needed? needs tidying?)
----References (add as needed)
----Notes (add as needed)


SeleneFN 07:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Jay Chou is first and foremost a singer-songwriter, so I don't think making multiple sub-sections for his movie career is going to have a lot of text in it. And concerts aren't going to have a lot of information either, because concert reviews are honestly few and far in-between, especially with Chinese/Taiwanese artists. - Pandacomics 15:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I do believe you are right about Chou's movie career (and also about the concerts). We can group the movies under a subsection of "Other Ventures". I had the initial idea of putting his movie career in its own section because he has now gearing more time towards it. Perhaps in a few years his movie career can stand as a separate section. SeleneFN 16:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


In response to LG-犬夜叉: Featured articles should be somewhere between 20-40 kb, roughly speaking. They tend should be succinct and to-the-point. Readers of this article are either long-time fans who may prefer a long biography, yet there are some who only started to become curious about Chou's music or movies and may not care for too many details. At any rate, I am still writing a few more sections so it will get longer - the verdict about its ideal length should wait. That being said, other people such as yourself might want to contribute as well before this article is sent for Feature Article nominantion. I think we should be ready in 1-2 months. SeleneFN 03:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of other people's contributions, I personally know very little about Chou's works for other people and his mentor-like relationship with Nan Quan Ma Ma and other budding singers. If someone knowledgeable can revamp the "collaboration" section with this information, that would be a really helpful contribution. SeleneFN 03:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] more links

Baidu Music Charts for the week of Sep 7 - Sep 14 2006

I can't explain how thorough Jay's domination of the Baidu Charts is. - Pandacomics 13:05, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Researching about Jay Chou and his accomplishments is rather awe-inspiring. SeleneFN 04:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Who reads this Jay Chou Wikipedia article ?

If you type "Jay Chou" into the Google search engine, this Jay Chou article is likely the first and second hit. The kinds of people who might read this article can be long-time fans or new fans. With Chou slowly making a name for himself in English-speaking countries, especially after "Curse of the Golden Flower", it has occured to me that journalists, columnists, news reports may mention Chou in their work, and look towards this very article for some basic information before they write about him.

I came along this website (http://www.radio86.co.uk/explore-learn/culture/2049/jay-chou-asias-own-eminem) (written March 23, 2007) which features a Jay Chou article that sounds rather similar to the revamped version of the "Biography" section that I posted on March 18th, 2007. The sentences that were taken from the Jay Chou Wikipedia article should be obvious if you read it. Click on the link above. Since Wikipedia is a free, open source of information, I'm very glad this article is being used in this way.

This makes it all-the-more important that we keep this article as well-written, informative, well-cited and non-biased as possible. People actually use the information here to spread the word about Jay Chou to audiences who have never heard of him before. SeleneFN 08:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


And the writer gave us Wikipedians credit for our work! "According to Wikipedia, Chou and his current manager Yang Jun Rong have also recently co-founded a record company called "J&R Music," following the expiry of his contract with Alfa Music. As co-director of the newly founded company, Chou will be able to foster the talents of China's newest music artists." SeleneFN 08:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Asia's own Eminem? What a giant understatement.. Time called him the Michael Jackson of the East.. and Elvis. FufuTofu 22:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

You are right about that. Jay is much more popular than most of the music artists in the North American Market, he may not earn as much money, but he has definitely wrote more songs and published more albums than most of them during the same 6 years that he has been active.
As for the article from the UK, I'm impressed. Great Job guys, but I think wikipedia as a whole still have a long way to go for credibility because it's open-endedness, but let's not get into that.
Keep up the good work. LG-犬夜叉 18:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hey, new information

http://www.china.org.cn/english/entertainment/204021.htm

Alfa's KTV venues might stop broadcasting Jay's stuff because his contract wasn't renewed. Have fun. - Pandacomics 06:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 中國風

I think this here should literally translate to 'China Style' or even 'Sino Style', instead of 'China Wind' in the article right now, as 風 here is really meaning to be part of the 風格. Thoughts? LG-犬夜叉 19:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I have always wondered about this. You are right in "風 here is really meaning to be part of the 風格". But I was worried that to call it "China style" (or even "Sino Style") may cause people to think Chou is singing traditional Chinese-styled music, which is obviously not the case. What 中國風 really is - a mixture of Chinese and Western styles - there might be no good appropriate word for it. At any rate, I understand your point... it feels strange even for me to write "China Wind". I'll do a bit more research first and I'll let everyone know if I find something. SeleneFN 21:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] NPOV

I feel this article is way too eulogistic. Whole portions of text in there seems to be written by the guy's mummy or something. E.g. right in the intro the bit about "and reminds listeners to honor their mothers in "Listen to Your Mother"" made me gag. IMO, the article would greatly beneficiate from being toned down a bit.

[edit] Response to NPOV

Please remember to sign your comments by typing ~~~~

You are welcome to change the article yourself, as any one of us are. If certain sentences give you physical discomfort, by all means, do change them.
I understand why you may feel the article is overly eulogistic. NPOV is very important in this article, as you may guess by the nearly excessive amount of citations. I am actually trying to find major flaws in this person to include while writing this biography, realizing that people such as yourself may feel this way. If you find something that we can cite, please let us know! SeleneFN 22:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Jay Chou has very many serious flaws to be discussed. He's always had the "good son" image and even anti-Jay people don't doubt his music talent. I think this article is pretty non-biased. It does talk about a few of his flaws, like being a control freak, and calling paparazzi as dogs. To expand on what is already said about these flaws would be blowing it out of proportion. Even the paragraph about "Public Image" is pretty much what the media portrays of him (at least what I read in the news about him), even though it seems like a lot of praise. What does it mean when you say "whole portions of text in there seems to be written by the guy's mummy or something?" The text sounds pretty straight forwarded to me 142.103.124.100 23:49, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Well there's the thing about people saying that his vocals aren't clear, and those who say that he gives a bad name to hip hop / r&b. I mean, of course, unless we find actual news articles that criticize him as such. - Pandacomics 00:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

There are reviews that complain he doesn't sing clearly enough, and on the other hand, there are reviews that basically say that mumbling is his own style. Some people like it, some people don't. Jay Chou insists he won't change. In general, I tend to move away from music and movie reviews as much as I can, because putting their opinion is just as bad as any one of us putting our opinions. I think a sentence about these varies opinions won't hurt. SeleneFN 01:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to ask everyone if there are any NPOV issues in this article. Best to talk about it now before this page gets submitted for feature article review. I obviously don't think I've written any NPOV (otherwise I wouldn't have written at all ! ), but it's hard to judge your own writing for NPOV, so feedback anyone? Thanks! SeleneFN 01:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm just saying that it doesn't hurt to put in a large criticism section, because Wikipedia reviewers generally don't like to see that a celebrity is portrayed in an all-too-positive light. Adding negativity makes them more human. - Pandacomics 04:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Maybe not a large stand-alone section on criticism, but worked into the paragraphs where relevant. His 2 most commonly-heard criticism for his music is the lack of change and poor pronounciation. I have just now added a paragraph of this under "Musical style". Apart from this, I really can't think of any other major criticisms worth writing about. Let me know if I'm missing some big flaw of his. SeleneFN 05:44, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Thanks LG-犬夜叉 for adding more pictures to the article! SeleneFN 03:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

If anyone has any good pictures for his movie Initial D and Curse of the Golden Flower, that would be a very helpful addition to the article. SeleneFN 03:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] formatting dashes and ellipses

I had made an edit to this article to correct the formatting of dashes and ellipses, standardizing them and fixing those that were incorrectly used. I am confident that these changes were correct—typography is my living and my study. User:SeleneFN had "reverted standardization of dashes and ellipses because these 'standardized dashes' have joined words where they should not be joined." Per WP:DASH, the change and revert to this article deserve discussion. —Parhamr 05:14, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't claim to be an expert in typography, and I have little interest in debating with people who claim to be experts of the technicalities of a dash. From my knowledge, however, a word such as "ice-cream" should be joined by a dash with no spaces in between, while the words "great" and "but" should not be joined in a sentence such as "apples are great - but only if you eat it with ice-cream". Writing "great-but" joins these two words that should not be together. At least this is what I read from respectable journals and books. However, I have read your link to WP:DASH and Wikipedia does seem to prefer your proposed style of writing dashes. Please change the dash (and ellipse) styles as you see fit and know that your effort in this article is genuinely appreciated. SeleneFN 06:09, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Ok, small things with the pictures. Although they're nice, I think it'd make more sense if the pictures corresponded with their respective sections. For example, Curse of the Golden Flower does not reflect much on Jay's fanbase. It would probably be better suited for the Movies section.

Putting the posters in "Movies" serves only an identification purpose. Putting it in Fanbase to convey the point that Chou is received much differently in Asia and the US gives the posters meaning. SeleneFN 03:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Also, I daresay using the posters in a comparative argument is a little more intelligent than just saying "this is a poster for Curse of the Golden Flower". Everyone can Google for a picture of Curse of the Golden Flower, but not everyone make a comparison of the two to make a point. :)
In fact, one of the criteria for "Fair Use" of a non-free image (such as the posters) is that it must be used to argue something. Strictly speaking, its use as identification is not enough. SeleneFN 04:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Other thing, about the polyphony and musical structure of Jay's songs...why don't we just insert musical samples? Because musical analysis is fairly subjective, so if people actually hear the actual song, it'll be like "Hey, yeah, I see where you're coming from." I will volunteer to make the clips if you guys can tell me where to make the cuts. - Pandacomics 02:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Music theory is highly systematic and not subjective - e.g. "polyphony" and "counterpoint" are thoroughly defined terms. Anyways, doesn't matter. You make a good point because not everyone knows music theory. Thanks for volunteering to make sound samples. Are they hard to make? SeleneFN 04:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
No, they're just time consuming. You're probably more familiar with Jay Chou music than I am (haha, sounds like you and S.H.E), so I can probably do the cutting, while you identify cuts. Oh by the way, on the message on your talk, I was leaning (much more) towards the copyediting comment, if you get my drift. - Pandacomics 17:12, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feature article!

Congratulations to all fans of Jay Chou! This article has now been promoted to a Feature Article, placed under "Music"! Thank you very much to all the editors and reviewers who helped! You can read the reviewers' comments at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Jay_Chou SeleneFN 04:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Western critics' praise for Jay's Curse of the Golden Flower Movie performance

I removed one of the links to a review site 'filmthreat'. Apparently it was an unfavarouble review by the website. But this link is wrongly cited as "a praise for Jay's performance". It is mentioned on the website his performance 'was like a popstar, all pouts and posing, with nary a crumb of genuine information to share', which is quite true. But I do not think a statement like this constitutes a praise. Perhaps someone should post references to all the unfavourable reviews to Jay's performance to include this citation, I'm sure there will be a fair share of it.

Somehow I didn't manage to edit out the wrong link. Can someone please do it? This is the link: ^ Hall, Phil (2006-12-22). Curse of the Golden Flower (Movie review). Film Threat. Retrieved on 2007-06-02. This review only shows how lousy of an actor Jay Chou is, I do not think that fans out there would like to know the truth.
  • Of the 5 links to movie reviews of Curse of The Golden Flower that discuss Chou's acting, 4 out of 5 are praises, while 1 out of 5 (the one you quoted in this message) reviewed Chou unfavorably. If this Jay Chou article had been about a movie, it would be reasonable to discuss this one negative review in isolation. However, based on the 4 out of 5 favorable ratings, summarizing that Chou's acting was praised is warranted. SeleneFN 15:49, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
  • As for you request to "post references to all the unfavouable reviews to Jay's perfomance... I'm sure there will be a fair share of it", I have found unfavourable Chinese reviews. Of the English reviews that I could find that mention Chou's performance at all (or even elaborate on it in more than half a sentence), 4 of 5 were praises. If you can find some more links to movie reviews that rate Chou's acting favorably or unfavorably, feel free to post them yourself. SeleneFN 15:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Given your (60.242.129.79) 2 vandalism edits to Jay Chou today by adding comments such as:
  • (you gotta be kidding me)
  • What a joke.
  • Further proof of the wanker he is.
It is clear that your goal was not to improve the article but was a desperate search for negative aspects of Jay Chou. I suggest that other Wikipedians do not take the edits or comments of 60.242.129.79 (unsigned message above) seriously. SeleneFN 15:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jay's Female Voice in Fearless theme song.

Should we include Jay's Dan (Chinese opera) voice in the theme song of Fearless(Huo Yuan Jia) as one of his "music Styles"?

Well, it's one song. Unless he starts using it more often, I think it's probably just a one-time thing (to keep with the theme of Huo Yuan Jia and all). - Pandacomics 02:50, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Agree. However, it may be worthwhile to add a line about Jay's use of different "types" of singing styles to include the style in Fearless, as well as the constant use of the "RRRRR" sound in "My Territory" like a Beijing accent. SeleneFN 04:44, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] sound samples

A lot of songs are cited, but are there 4-5 in particular that should be noted? (so I can fire up the ol' downloader and cut the clips) - Pandacomics 17:32, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I know you mentioned this issue before and sorry I hadn't responded to it. Thanks very much again for offering to make clips. To be honest, I really don't know which songs to put. Well I have some idea, but it'll be nice to show certain parts of the song (some singing parts and some instrument-only parts) with a smooth transition in between. I don't even know if that's possible without using some really advanced sound editing program. Anyways, I was thinking maybe these songs: 止戰之殤 to show a classical style; 菊花台 to show what is Zhongguo feng, 雙截棍 to show Zhonggo feng and rock, and 完美主義 to show what is counterpoint. What is the "legal" longest clip you can use? SeleneFN 06:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure 30 seconds is the limit (and in any case, you can't really get the "essence" of a song in 30 seconds). If you have specific cut points you want to cut at, then that would probably help as well. -Pandacomics 06:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm working on it! SeleneFN 18:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
How about this (hm... I hope the track durations that I have match yours... I got these from the true-copy CDs):
Nunchucks 1:45 - 2:15
Ju Hua Tai 2:20 - 2:50
完美主義 1:29 - 1:59
SeleneFN 07:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Player

"Although each relationship (with the exception of Patty Hou[32]) has been denied by Chou, these reports have given him a "player" image." -- this should be elaborated and/or sourced, if possible. Chensiyuan (talk) 13:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jaychou jay.jpg

Image:Jaychou jay.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 16:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jaychou novemberschopin.jpg

Image:Jaychou novemberschopin.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 16:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Zhou Jielun

Doesn't Zhou Jielun like his Chinese name? Or all names in Taiwan should be translated into English and romanising surnames using bastardised W-G, which is used by a some percentage of Taiwanese together with a myriad of other romanisation systems? User Pandacomics reverts my addition in brackets: (also: Zhou Jielun). FYI, the search produced 7,720 hits in google, not quite an uncommon spelling. --Atitarev (talk) 13:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Because "Jay Chou" is the name he uses on all official publications, and on album covers. It's really just that. He never uses Zhou Jielun on any publications. If he used Zhou Jielun to release his albums, that's what we'd be calling the Wikipedia article. Pandacomics (talk) 15:18, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
The original romanised Chinese names of actors are usually provided, at least as an alternative (if not as the main entry) in most movie databases, Amazon.com, etc. Admittedly, many English speakers still may find it difficult to pronounce and memorise Chinese names but to show respect and for the information, I think it's only beneficial to know the name a person is known in his language. The choice of romanisation is the most common and understood in the West. --Atitarev (talk) 23:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Dear sir, who holds authority over what he is known by? Jay Chou and his cronies at JVR, or an online store that chooses to refer to him in their own way (which turns out to be the pinyinized version of his name)? We do show respect for how he's known in his language. His name in pinyin is found in the infobox over on the right. Good day to you. Pandacomics (talk) 02:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Dear Sir, you obviously wish to be the authority in Wikipedia about the information in the article. Otherwise, why revert my edits? Choosing the names is like with any word, the most commonly excepted becomes the standard. Whether this is the Hanyu Pinyin or nickname, doesn't matter. Pinyin in the infobox with tone marks is the Chinese transcription, not the alternative name, the pinyinised name (in this case) is the English name by which Jay Chou/Zhou Jielun is known. That's the difference. --Atitarev (talk) 03:28, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I fail to grasp what it is you still do not understand. Perhaps the following should make things less confusing for you: WP:NAME - "Generally, article naming should prefer what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature." That name would be Jay Chou. Enough said. Good day, once again. Pandacomics (talk) 03:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I can see you're very busy reverting other people's edits. Can you do something productive instead? --Atitarev (talk) 04:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I can. Removing fansites is another thing I do. I'm also preparing a list for Featured List. Is there anything else you'd like me to rub into your face? Pandacomics (talk) 04:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
You are rude and unattractive. If you want to use references, use Wikipedia:Manual of Style (use of Chinese language). See Introductory sentence, Romanization and tones. --Atitarev (talk) 04:17, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
You yourself are also a nuisance for persisting with this. I gave you a perfectly reasonable explanation, and yet you STILL persist in going with a far-out alternative that wouldn't work. I think you must've missed something in that link you provided. "This edition of Wikipedia is in English, so do not use characters or romanized forms excessively" Oh, sorry, what was that you added? An excessive romanization that is already in the infobox. Let me refer the naming conventions to you again. "The encyclopedia should reference the name more familiar to most English readers." What is more familiar? Jay Chou. "For most historical figures this means that the encyclopedia entry should reference the Chinese name (romanized in Hanyu pinyin) rather than the English name, with a redirect from the English name. However, there are exceptions for figures whose English name is more familiar (such as Confucius) " Does Jay Chou have an English name that is more familiar? Unless you haven't been able to read the "Jay Chou" on his albums, merchandise, concert listings, record label, websites, he indeed has an English name that is more familiar. Can you guess what that name could possibly be? Pandacomics (talk) 04:24, 16 May 2008 (UTC)