Talk:Jaws (film)

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[edit] Improvised scene?

I've often heard that the scene in the boat's cabin, where Shaw shows off to Dreyfuss, was largely or entirely improvised. If anyone has verification of this, it would be a great addition to the production section. Barnabypage 01:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC) its not improvised, the uss indianapolis monologue is in the novel. Janemansfield74 04:49, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I think he's referring to the scar trade scenes. I'll contact Carl Gottlieb, and see if I can get a definitive answer. Fred-stine 10:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge reco for Orca (Jaws boat)

It has also been suggested that article Orca (Jaws boat) be merged with the parent's production section. I have to disagree with this proposal. For example, the existance of article Quint (Jaws character) alone validates the existance of Orca (Jaws boat) as a stand alone piece. In fact there are several sub-articles existing including Amity Island. The extent of detail involved in the history of Orca (Jaws boat) would deviate from the generalization of parent article and it's purpose were it merged. Furthermore, it can be argued to a degree that the "ORCA" is a character in the film in so much as Quint is. Deleting or merging this article without a substantiated rationale would appear to be incorrect. So far the validity of my rationale has still not yet been logically argued. Therefore, I steadfastly disagree with any merge.

I also will do everything in my ability (time allowing) to further strengthen the article so that it will meet requisite criteria. I appreciate any feedback and suggestions in doing so (as I'm still a newbie) and encourage additions and edits that improve upon said article. I firmly believe this article deserves to be a stand alone piece subjugated to parent article being that it would deviate from the general purpose of parent article (the film itelf) were it merged.Fred-stine 10:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, definitely, merge. There's no need whatsoever for a separate article about the boat. Vidor 07:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Vidor. Also, be cautious that contacting Mr Gottlieb would be inadequate for a Wikipedia article as it would violate WP:OR. The JPStalk to me 09:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, Vidors statement lacks any substantiating merit. There are several sub-articles existing with like or lesser significance by comparison. Amity Island is one. Alternately, the boat in of itself (Orca (Jaws boat)) has already been established as a cultural icon by way of English phraseology "We're gonna need a bigger boat". Throughout Wikipedia, there are articles about films such as Batman which maintain sub-articles focusing on the vehicle(s). See batmobile. Case in point, Planet of the Apes as a parent article, points to a sub-article Icarus. This spacecraft was featured in the film for a mere brief opening sequence, yet 'ORCA' is a primary core set piece and figures into better than one third of the film. Without a defining arguement, it is my sincere opinion that precendent points clearly to this article remaining as a stand alone piece.

JPS, thanks for pointing out WP:OR but I was going to contact Gottlieb to answer the preceding question for the individual asking here in talk, rather than directly add any answer gained to the production section. None the less, I would assume that would be the same as heresay. Alternately, There is a published article whereby Gottlieb answers that specific question for an interview done by Bill Baer. Page 56/57, May/June 2001 issue of Creative Scriptwriting, Volume 8, Number 3. Fred-stine 10:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Note: Apprently the merge issue is still under discussion, that's good. If this issue is discussed here, the talk page for Talk:Orca_(Jaws_boat) should include an indication as well, since there may be other interested parties who may not see the discussion on this page (thanks to User:The JPS for steering me to this page). Also note, there are several articles already listed under Category:Fictional ships, an established WP category applicable to Orca. (See Talk:Orca_(Jaws_boat) for more details and additional points). Regards. dr.ef.tymac 15:46, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for mentioning this, and thanks to JPS for steering you here. Category:Fictional ships, certainly appears relevant.Fred-stine 11:22, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

So, is this discussion still ongoing or is the issue decided? There hasn't been an edit or post on this issue or the Orca article itself for nearly a month. Personally, I don't think the Orca article should exist (neither should Amity Island, or Quint) and that it should it be deleted, but my mind is still open, although the article does contain some useful information that could be merged into this article.--Mjolnir78 00:17, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Although no one seems to be responding, I'll still add my two cents on this. I think the Orca article should be deleted; really, the boat has next to no significance outside of the film. It's just a set! To argue against Fred-Stine's reasons, I also believe Amity Island and Quint (Jaws character) articles should be deleted as well. Also, the Batmobile is definitely significant enough to have its own article: it has many appearances in comic books, films, and TV series relating to Batman. As for the Icarus article, you seem to overlook the fact that the article covers the ship's appearances in all of the Planet of the Apes films, not just one. Plus, the Orca is not an important part of English phraseology; it does not make any difference in the line "We're gonna need a bigger boat". The boat could have been called The Flying Pink Unicorn, and the line would not change in meaning at all. However, it seems you've added some interesting and relevant information with references to the article, and I complement you on your work. This information could easily be incorporated into the Jaws article here. Anyway, I doubt if anyone is still paying attention to this, but there ya go. If no one responds or at least objects in a week, I'm going to remove the merge tag, merge the relevant information to the article, and put up Orca for deletion.--Dark Kubrick 00:15, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Apparently Legendary Ranger has merged the article into Jaws, but I was thinking that some of the article goes into Production, and the rest is removed. The information should also have references, which I would be glad to make up myself if someone tells me what information came from what source. Until then, I've removed the text, which can be easily regained using the history tab (I thought of putting it here, but it's too big.)--Dark Kubrick 18:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

After a long lull of no responses to my previous arguement I assumed the merge had become a pointless debate as logic had clearly prevailed with the group consensus. I also was on vacation and didn't see the latest replies. To reiterate my opinion within the context of fact, the Orca, is very much significant outside the film, and while the line "We're gonna need a bigger boat" does not specifically reference ORCA it does refer to THAT specific boat in the publics perception if for no other reason this is not derived from merely a literary work but a visual representation where no mistake can be made as to what the Orca is or appears as. Conversely, The 'icarus' changed appearance significantly in the three sequels it was briefly featured in (due to a time travel disruptions?) much like Marty's time machine in the BTTF series. Which notably also has separate pages dedicated to it ( see: De Lorean DMC-12 and a homemade time machine ). Whereas the ORCA was featured in a JAWS sequel and was meant to be THE same craft. To make sure the audience knew it was the same boat, a closeup in the film reading 'ORCA' is clearly visible. Orca, has also been seen in several Televison shows including the feature film 'The nude bomb' and is talked about in great length by Steven Spielberg in the upcoming documentry 'The shark is still working'. One story he tells describes his many solo trips to the boat to meditate while it was still on the back lot. To say the ORCA is just a set (quoting you) "It's just a set!" is by far undervaluing its significance and in any case helps further strengthen my arguement by virtue of the fact everything in Planet of the apes WAS a set based on a science fiction concept. The Orca however was built over a real boat (warlock) and continued to be used as a real boat for some time after the production wrapped.

I'll repost the case in point made by JPS in case anyone missed it. Unless a substantiated oposing arguement is posted, I'll maintain that JPS has made the case for a non-merge and maintain the page deserves a permanent non-merge. (see below)

Unfortunately, Vidors statement lacks any substantiating merit. There are several sub-articles existing with like or lesser significance by comparison. Amity Island is one. Alternately, the boat in of itself (Orca (Jaws boat)) has already been established as a cultural icon by way of English phraseology "We're gonna need a bigger boat". Throughout Wikipedia, there are articles about films such as Batman which maintain sub-articles focusing on the vehicle(s). See batmobile. Case in point, Planet of the Apes as a parent article, points to a sub-article Icarus. This spacecraft was featured in the film for a mere brief opening sequence, yet 'ORCA' is a primary core set piece and figures into better than one third of the film. Without a defining arguement, it is my sincere opinion that precendent points clearly to this article remaining as a stand alone piece.

In short, I really never imagined Orca (Jaws boat) would aquire this much controversy. On a side note, if anyone wants to see a page that actually deserves to be scrutinized and desirous of a merge, see this one:

Cruel Jaws

Why it has been allowed to remain unmerged to for over a year without scrutiny makes one wonder...

[edit] Plot pruning

Recent editors have suggested the plot summary subhead is too long. Geoduck made some changes in good faith, but one of those changes in the opening paragraph changes the plot description significantly enough to make it incorrect. Specifically, the reason why Brody decided to close the beach. The edited section read:

Assuming it was a shark attack, Brody prepares to close the beach, but he is intercepted and overruled by town mayor Larry Vaughn (Hamilton).

The previous version read:

The town's medical examiner tells Brody that it was a shark attack, prompting Brody to close the beach.

In the film, Brody is typing the death certificate in his office. Polly, his receptionist, answers the phone for him and tells Brody it is the medical examiner. Brody takes the call, and fills in the form's "Cause of Death" field based on what he's hearing on the phone call: "shark attack". This is when he then rushes to the store to get the paint and supplies for the Beach Closed signs he wants made.

Brody did not assume it was a shark attack; he was told it was. Later, when Mayor Vaughn and the others talk to Brody on the ferry and the examiner says it was a boating accident, Brody expresses surprise and says (paraphrased) "That's not what you told me on the phone!".

I did revert it back to the original form, while leaving the rest of the pruning. Although I did unintentionally revert some other good edits by this editor, so I will put those back. In future, we should all be careful with such edits, as it's possible to change the entire context if we're not paying attention.

McDoobAU93 21:00, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Show Me the Way to Go Home

Anyone forget to mention this is one movie that brought this song back into notice? Zchris87v 01:22, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Did it? It may have been in the film, but was its impact worthy of a mention? Do you have reliable sources? The JPStalk to me 09:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amityisland.net

Why is this link being removed all the time? What does Hu12 have against the site? Can another admin help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lostshark (talk • contribs) 12:03, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

External links policy on Advertising and conflicts of interest states You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent. Unfortunately your conflict of interest editing involves contributing to Wikipedia in order to promote amityisland.net. Such a conflict is strongly discouraged. Your contributions to wikipedia under Lostshark and IP's 60.234.215.101, 86.146.6.106, 58.108.161.195, 81.151.117.95, 86.151.253.216, consist entirely of adding external links to amityisland.net and is considered WP:Spam. Looking through your contributions as a whole, the all seem to be amityisland.net related only. Please do not create articles or continue adding links to your own websites to Wikipedia. It has become apparent that your account and IP's are only being used for spamming inappropriate external links and for self-promotion. Wikipedia is NOT a "repository of links" or a "vehicle for advertising" and persistent spammers will have their websites blacklisted. Any further spamming may result in your account and/or your IP address being blocked from editing Wikipedia. Please see the welcome page Avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines. You're here to improve Wikipedia -- not just to promote amityisland.net right? --Hu12 (talk) 12:31, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes like you said on your talk page, but can I have another admin's view on this as it's not only been me putting this link back. Seeing as the link was put up like a year ago something you can't just get rid of it now because it's on other relevant articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lostshark (talk • contribs) 16:14, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I have reviewed this. You say others placed the link - indeed they did but only IPs recently and that placement was about the sum total of their contributions so that is not persuasive. The link has been removed by users other than Hu12, that is more persuasive. Finally I am the admin who added the site to the blacklist so I guess you have had your requested "other" opinion, thanks --Herby talk thyme 11:10, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok well I still think there is something dodgey about this, it is blatently NOT spam. Spam is when you link with unrelevant sites, my amityisland.net was relevant to all articles. You classed it as spam because one admin deleted it becuase he/she has something against the site and then it kept getting reposted. It's unfair and not going by the rules Lostshark (talk) 15:55, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Anyway there is no way that you can say all my contributions have been amityisland.net related because they haven't. I haven't always signned in with this user to edit articles. This is a great example of admins buddying up together. If this wasn't an American website it would be democratic (democracy works by the way). Lostshark (talk) 14:39, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] OR

The influences section needs stronger sourcing, specifically a source for the assertion of aresemblance to the Ibsen play. Otto4711 17:12, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Mechashark.JPG

Image:Mechashark.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Picture of Brody

I vote to leave the picture of Brody in the article since he was the star of the first 2 movies, the only main star form the first to be in the second and it's the role that made Scheider famous Dr. Stantz (talk) 22:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I guess part of the motivation to have this picture is sentimental, considering the sad news. Trouble is, that non-free image does not enhance understanding the article. Therefore it does not qualify as fair use. The JPStalk to me 23:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Precisely. Alientraveller (talk) 08:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)