Talk:Japanese yen

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The article states:

After the Plaza Accord of 1985, the yen depreciated against the dollar.

Pardon me I'm not native English speaker. Isn't this opposite? Fukumoto 13:53, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, it is my mistake. I changed the sentence. Thanks for your comment. --Youssef 09:02, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)~
Thanks. I think Plaza Accord has a similar line as well. Fukumoto 14:59, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I added what kind of coins and bills are in the circulation. As I recall, a Kanji for Yen was a simplified character of Chinese Won. Does anyone know otherwise? Revth 06:09, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

What is the reference being used for the exchange rates section? CJewell (talk) 19:02, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Vaiations in Type Size

The edit which was "cleaned up"

[edit] obverse/reverse

See Japan Mint Q&A "How do you decide the obverse and reverse of coins?"
Every Japanese coin shows the date of manufacture, on its reverse side.
The Phoenix Hall side of the 10 yen coin, which doesn't show the date of manufacture, is obverse.

I uploaded a single file with both sides. Fg2 04:08, September 3, 2005 (UTC)
Both sides of 10 yen coin
Both sides of 10 yen coin

[edit] Conversion table over time

I recommend ditching the conversion rate table as it is difficult to maintain and simply provide a link to a web site which maintains historical conversion rates. 68.199.35.139 18:05, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Maybe a table with annual averages would be better. Killer Swath 07:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yuan

In Dollar:

In China, base unit of the official currency Renminbi is called "Yuan" (元 or 圆 , with a symbol ¥). The "yuan" is, in fact, a colloquial form of the word "dollar". Spanish dollars were widely circulated in China in the late 19th century. When China adopted its the first national currency in 1914, the base unit was called "Yuan" , which means "dollar". A "yuan" at that time was a coin containing exactly the same amount of silver as a Spanish dollar.

In the article:

The yen was originally written as the same way as the Chinese Yuan (圓 pinyin yuan2). Modern Japanese writings use a character (円) which is different from the one used in simplified Chinese (元). The Latinized symbol for the Yen however, is identical to the one for the Yuan, although the PRC tends to use one crossbar instead of two.
Yen literally means a "round object" in Japanese, as the Yuan in Chinese.

--Error 23:56, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Legally enforceable"?

The article currently claims that The yen was legally defined as 0.8667 troy ounces (26.956 g) of silver, a definition that is still legally enforceable today. What exactly is this supposed to mean? Good luck taking a one-yen coin to the Bank of Japan and demanding to get 27 grams of silver in exchange! Jpatokal 16:05, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

I wondered that myself. Especially since Japan switched over to the gold standard in the 1890's, it seems odd that the silver definition would've remained enforceable even a hundred years ago, much less today Nik42 02:34, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 500-Yen Bill

When was the 500-yen bill discontinued? Nik42 08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Found it! 1994 Nik42 06:53, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Endaka

The article contained the sentence "Japan has become so used to the appreciation, it has coined the term endaka, or appreciation of the yen, and has employed the Bank of Japan to intervene to reduce its value, a tactic recently copied by much the rest of the Far East." I'm moving the sentence here with some questions.

First, did the term endaka arise in response to Japan's becoming used to appreciation? Daily reports of exchange rates have the terms endaka and enyasu as a pair; my guess is that the terminology predated the prolonged appreciation and predated their becoming used to it.

Second, is the sentence logically sound? That is, is employing the BoJ to reduce the value a sign that Japan has become used to appreciation, or is it a sign of the opposite?

Finally, what technique did much of the rest of the Far East copy --- using the Bank of Japan? Is there a way to salvage this sentence?

Fg2 21:55, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 2,000 Yen Bill

The article states that larger cash registers were needed for the 2,000-yen bill. But, the 500-yen bill was only suspended in 1994. So, it seems to me that there should already have been an empty slot left over. Did they replace their cash registers after the 500-yen bill was removed or what? Nik42 18:14, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Good question. Now I started wondering that too. I'm guessing the reason was that the 500 yen coin was issued as early as 1982. And in the 18 years until 2000, new stores opened, new cash registers replaced the old ones.... The first (and last) time I visited Japan in 1992, I only saw 500 yen coin, not a bill. --Chochopk 21:13, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Current shops in Japan almost always only have three slots for banknotes in their cash registers, so the ¥2000 yen notes present a problem. I have lived in Japan for almost a year without seeing a single one of them, so they must be really rare. (58.188.97.134 14:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC))
Do you know how fast they replace stuff in Japan? You can get ¥2000 notes at a bank if you want them but you never see them in circulation. Jimp 07:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I have seen a couple in circulation in my time, but they are very rare. --ShizuokaSensei 07:42, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay ... almost never ... in fact about a year ago I saw a whole bunch of them which had come out of an ATM & I s'pose that counts as circulation. Jimp 08:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe the 1-2-5-10 set up is optimal for every currency. For every ¥2000 note printed, it saves 2 pieces of ¥1000 notes. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 08:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I too prefer the 1-2-5-10 set up. I don't know whether it's "optimal": if you had a ¥7000 note as well you'll make another saving. The Cook Islands have a $3 note. There's something to be said for 1-3-10 over 1-5-10. What I find confusing, though, are quarters. Of course, this all only applies to decimal currency, 1-2-5-10 is no good if you're dealing with 12 pennies to the shilling. Jimp 08:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, my friend moved to Japan three years ago and he wonders if they even exist. Fentoro 04:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The latinised symbol

I don't understnad why this ¥ symbol anything to do with latin--Scott3 09:39, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

The "Y" underneath is a letter of the Latin (Roman) alphabet, not Japanese script. Jpatokal 13:38, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ¥5000 and ¥10,000 banknote

Can someone provide a source that states the ¥5000 and ¥10,000 banknotes issued in 1957 and 1958 belog to series C but not B? --Chochopk 21:13, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Because Series C of Japanese banknotes have a same blank space or blank oval as Series 2004A of U.S. $10 bills have. The blank space or oval makes us easy to idetify a watermark. And Series C banknotes have a new type of watermark, known as black watermark "kuro sukashi" (黒すかし?).
See webpages showing below: Nagoya branch of Bank of Japan
They are written in Japanese. --Tan90deg 17:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. --Chochopk 19:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology section

I just had a go at improving the flow of this section as it was currently repeating itself re: the western transliteration of the word and the origin of the Y. I also cut back the further examples of the extra Y to three as to me it's just a sidenote and I felt listing five or six was needless. I hope people feel that section has better flow to it now. Feel free to shoot me down in flames if not. :-) ShizuokaSensei 11:11, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Concerning the romanization of the names with the extra "y" present, I've honestly never seen them before. I assumed that the y in yen was an artifact due to the sound, never part of any official system. anyone have confirmation on this? - Random reader 19:14, 01 Dec 2004 (CST)
It was once quite common. Compare, for example, Daniel Inouye. Nik42 02:55, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
See also the article on the now-defunct kana we brain 03:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm fairly sure that the term "yen" was first used to describe Western silver coins, particularly the Spanish Dollar, rather than cash coins or other old coins. Nik42 (talk) 22:52, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Milled ¥10

Some older ¥10 coins have a milled edge. Just a comment. I can try to find one and scan if you want. --Apoc2400 12:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I have a couple of those in my desk at work, too. The ja: 10 yen article says that 1959 was the first year for the non-milled variety, but, nothing about whether the mass/thickness/composition changed. Neier 13:13, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sen and rin

Are sen and rin still officially subunits, or were they abolished along with the coins and banknotes in those denominations in 1954? Nik42 04:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how a virtual unit can be "official" or otherwise, but eg. stock and foreign exchange prices are still quoted in sen. Rin seem to be pretty thoroughly obsolete though. Jpatokal 05:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
It would be official if the currency law states sen and rin as subdivisions, the way, e.g., US law gives dimes, cents, and mils as subdivisions of the dollar. So, the question is, did the law eliminating those coins also repeal the provisions concerning subdivisions of the yen? Nik42 06:00, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The Japanese Wikipedia quoth:

   * 銭…1円の100分の1（1円＝100銭）
   * 厘…1円の1000分の1、1銭の10分の1（1円＝1000厘、1銭＝10厘）

が存在するが、1953年に法律によって小額硬貨が整理された際に、事実上の使用・流通禁止処分が取られており、今日では為替や株式の取引で銭が仮想的に使用されるにすぎない。

 ...and...

1953年（昭和28年）の「小額通貨の整理及び支払金の端数計算に関する法律」により流通及び使用が禁止され、現在では主に、為替や株価などの端数を表現するための単位として使われる。

...which means that the physical coins are no longer legal tender and may not be used as such, but the units themselves remain in use for stock price fractions and such. Here's the full text of the law if reading great big slabs of legal Japanese is your idea of a good time... Jpatokal 06:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] old coin images

are there plans for images of the older coin issues? I have a few... or perhaps there is another area to put them? brain 03:33, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I should have bought Yen in 1985

If I had bought a lot of Yen in 1985, I could have converted them into USD three years later and doubled my money, am I right? This system is flawed... :(

[edit] So why doesn't Dove1950 move this to Japanese en?

Or even Japanese 円? --Howard the Duck 09:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Because yen is the name used in English. As for "Japanese 円", no currency of a non-Roman alphabet-using country is at the native script. Nik42 01:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CIA factbook

The link for inflation to the CIA factbook doesn't work. It says this, "Not Found. The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let you have it. Please inform the site administrator of the referring page." I just thought that this would be the closest thing to an admin on this page. Just wanted to let you know.

72.69.102.225 17:40, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it is fixed now. Neier 09:34, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
In fact, all instances of https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2092.html (in the entire Wikipedia) should be replaced by https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2092.html. 2092 is the page that has the list of inflation in the world. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html#Econ has the same piece of data, but is a different page. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 09:52, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
In theory, Special:Linksearch should tell us what to replace. But I don't know why it doesn't work. (There should be more). --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 09:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why does the history stop around 1990?

I remember that in 2000 a 100 yen bought you almost a euro, while today it buys you less then 60 cents. Since even the first date is way after the end of the "history" section, I am left to wonder why... Shinobu 12:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

That's almost entirely due to the euro's fluctuations. In dollar terms, $1 was 115.98 yen in 1999, and it's 118.92 in 2007, so almost nothing has happened. But I added a few lines anyway... Jpatokal 14:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Type Size in Headings

The recent "clean up" by DocWatson42 removed variations in type size within the reference section. This has an arguable purpose, but I can be persuaded that my view should be revised. In a sense, I would have thought that everything after the "references" heading is effectively naught but a variation on "further reading" and/or "see also" -- relevant, but of secondary importance in the context which has gone before. Ergo, I would have thought that the headings properly indicate that subsidiary status. This, in my view, is somewhat comparable to the common practice of putting footnotes[1] or photo captions in a smaller typeface or like this when the line through a few words conveys meaning which varies according to context.

In this complex subject, the difference between the sections of the main text and the references are perhaps better delineated in the following fashion. It does look awkward in draft form, but the ultimate impression seems worth defending to the modest extent I do here:

[edit] References

[edit] Notes

  1. ^ Sample in-line note: Tsuchihashi conversions are made available by the Japan Studies Department of the University of Tübingen.
Draft appearance:====Notes====

[edit] Further reading

  • There is no book to which we can defer.
Draft appearance: ====Further reading====

[edit] See also

Draft appearance: ====See also====

[edit] External links

Draft appearance: ====External links====

__________________

This formatting choice means that literally one line separates the body of demonstrably significant exposition from the supporting material.

The question becomes one of style, perhaps; but what do you think? I'm not sure there's a consensus position on this, nor does there need to be. I'm just explaining what I believe to be a reasonable and informed choice. Any comments or other views?

My questions here might be better placed somewhere other than in a discussion page about the Japanese Yen, but there you have it.Ooperhoofd 13:23, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks great to me. In those cases where we have things to put in each of these categories, I'd think it'd be wonderful to have things cleanly organized like this. LordAmeth 00:50, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Guide to layout, the order is

  1. See also
  2. Notes
  3. References (or combined with "Notes" into Notes and references)
  4. Further reading (or Bibliography)
  5. External links

Of all the articles I come across, See also is usually the first, and external links is the last, both bearing level 2 header. I'm not sure what level of header it should have. Articles with the most revisions is also a reference. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 11:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What do ATMs dispense?

I added a new attribute to the currency infobox that indicates what denominations ATMs dispense. Examples are available at United States dollar and pound sterling. What about the Japanese yen? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Is that a useful entry? Doesn't that vary depending on the ATM? Most US ATM's dispense $20's, however, I've seen some that dispense $10's instead, and I once was a member of a credit union whose ATM's were stocked with $5's, $10's, and $20's (and I think possibly higher bills, but I'm not positive) Nik42 04:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Wasn't my idea. User:Tarcus suggested it on my talk page. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:15, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Well its suppose to be the most common denominations dispensed, in Australia I have yet to see a machine that gives 5, 10 and 100 dollars. And Hong Kong they dispense 100 and 500 dollar notes. Enlil Ninlil 08:28, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how much it varies from bank to bank, but I know ¥1,000 and ¥10,000 bills are available in my bank's. -Amake 08:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I've heard of ATM's dispensing 500 yen coins. Is that common? Nik42 04:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Depends on the ATM, but the ones at my post office despense everything, including coins. I accidently punched in 10003 yen recently and it all came out, even the three one yen coins! ShizuokaSensei 06:42, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
It sounds like this is getting WP:OR. I say we don't put anything unless it's very clear. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 08:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I think you'll have that issue with every currency, which is why that entry is problematic, and should be removed from the template Nik42 18:06, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I removed the entry. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 03:18, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

The following sentences in the "Eymology" section were disputed by User:Buu and credibly questioned by User:Oda Mari. Does this become a sufficient reason to re-position this text here on the Talk page? Or would it be better to leave these sentences in place while a further exchange of views unfolds?

En literally means "round object" in Japanese, as yuan does in Chinese, referring to the ancient Chinese coins that were circular in shape and widely used in Japan up to the Tokugawa Period. In 1695, the shogunate placed the Japanese character gen (元) on the obverse of copper coins, the same character used today in China for the yuan. There is no connection between those uses, however.[1]
  • (cur) (last) 22:03, 11 July 2007 User:Ooperhoofd (Talk | contribs) m (35,261 bytes) (1695 -- Tokugawa era coins stamped with (元), meaning "yuan") (undo)

I'm not sure which is the better course of action; but I continue to stand by my quite modest July '07 edit in the face of User:Buu's critical viewpoint:

  • (cur) (last) 16:43, 26 December 2007 User:Buu (Talk | contribs) (25,877 bytes) (Deleted spurious fact; none such coins issued by shogunate.) (undo)

I don't retreat from my posting; and don't think User:Nik42's terse edit is sufficiently clear or helpful in our context:

  • (cur) (last) 17:59, 26 December 2007 User:Nik42 (Talk | contribs) (26,176 bytes) (The character was on some coins, but it has no connection with the use of the character in modern-day CHina.) (undo)

Perhaps this gesture will help expand the number of participants in the discussion.

In any case, I hope this can become a constructive step towards resolution. --Ooperhoofd (talk) 17:42, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Answer to your post on my talk page, Ooperhoofd.
  • En literally means "round object" in Japanese, as yuan does in Chinese, referring to the ancient Chinese coins that were circular in shape and widely used in Japan up to the Tokugawa Period. In 1695, the character 元 (ghen), signifying "round or rounded") was placed on the obverse of copper coins.
The problem is, as far as I know, Japanese people have never used the character 元 as 円 or 圓. 元 is not a related character to 円 or 圓 in Japan. There is no meaning of round or rounded in the character 元 used in Japan. It means something original. Please see this. Thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 19:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
P.S. Suggestion! Instead of user talk pages, let's talk about the matter only here. Oda Mari (talk) 19:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Came here via J-project talk page. A quick check shows that 1695 was the 8th year of the Genroku period. The first character in Genroku is the 元 in question, and I would wager to guess that it's most likely that this character was meant to denote the period it was issued in. I would also like to corroborate Oda Mari's insertion regarding the meaning of 元 - it just simply doesn't mean "round" in Japanese. It is a simplified character both in Chinese and in Japanese, but the original characters this is a simplification of are different in the two languages. TomorrowTime (talk) 05:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Please see my posts here, especially 07:53 and 08:12 posts on 27 December 2007. Oda Mari (talk) 06:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if it might be helpful to re-visit excerpts from earlier versions of this article, e.g.,

  • Revision history as of September 2006:
    • In standard Japanese, the yen is actually pronounced "en", but the spelling "yen" is standard in English, due to historical Portuguese transliteration. The yen is a cognate of the Chinese yuan and the Korean won, and was originally written in the same way in Kanji as the Chinese yuan (圓 pinyin: yuán, Wade-Giles: yuen). Modern Japanese writings now use the simplified shinjitai character (円) which is different from the one commonly used (as shorthand) in Chinese (元). The Latinized symbol (¥) for the Yen however, is identical to the one for the Chinese yuan, although the PRC also uses the single-crossbar Y (Ұ). Consequently, the ISO abbreviations JPY for the yen and CNY for the yuan are used to avoid confusion of the two currencies.
    • En literally means "round object" in Japanese, as yuan does in Chinese, referring to the ancient Chinese coins that were circular in shape and widely used in Japan up to the Tokugawa Period. The spelling and pronunciation with the letter "y" are based on romanization of an obsolete writing of the word. The same combination occurs in words such as Uyeda, Yebisu, Iyeyasu, Inouye and Yedo. Like the spellings of names of people outside Japan, the romanization of yen has become a permanent feature.
  • Revision September 2004:
    • The yen was originally written as the same way as the Chinese yuan (圓 pinyin yuan), modern writings use a different simplified character (円) instead (cf. 元).
  • Initial stub creation:
    • (cur) (last) 16:30, 14 January 2002 User:62.253.64.xxx (Talk) (stub on Japanese currency)

____________
Ample evidence exists to support a claim that the 1834 reference source I've cited might well be wrong (of course), and my reasoning here may well be thin; but I'm inclined to give Isaac Titsingh an enhanced benefit of doubt on the narrow subject of Japanese coins which circulated during the Tokugawa shogunate. This tenuous position is based on two distinct foundations:

  • I'm persuaded this is one sentence is probably valid because of Titsingh's enduring friendship with Kutsuki Masatsuna, who was something of a numismatist expert of that time. Kutsuki would have been the most likely source from which he gleaned this disputed 1695 "fact".<.ref>Screech, Timon. (2006). Secret Memoirs of the Shoguns: Isaac Titsingh and Japan, 1779-1822, pp. 32-38.<./ref>
  • I'm also persuaded that this isn't likely to have been the sort of translation error which Titsingh's posthumous editors -- Jean-Pierre Abel-Rémusat or Julius Klaproth -- would have made. In this context, perhaps it becomes relevant that, in 1828, Klaproth published his translation of Arai Hakuseki's 1711 treatise, Hōka shiryaku ("Brief history of currency"), also known as Honchō hōka tsūyō jiryaku ("Short Account of the circulation of currency in this realm"). The volume Klaproth used had first been brought to Europe in 1796 by Titsingh, and Klaproth somehow obtained it after Titsingh's death in 1812.<.ref>Screech, p. 65.<./ref>

I don't wish to be seen as obdurate. As I see it, there are two courses open to us: (1) Leave the questioned text in place while this thread continues to develop, or (2) remove it. Which would be the better choice in terms of ensuring the quality of Wikipedia as a whole? --Ooperhoofd (talk) 18:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

As I pointed out before, the Bank of Japan says 元 indicates 元禄 on one of the history pages in their official site. And you could not show an image of 1695 copper coin with 元 character. So please remove the sentences. Oda Mari (talk) 17:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
End of thread: The two questionable sentences were removed from Japanese yen in the absence of further, specific corroborating reference material. --Ooperhoofd (talk) 19:27, 1 January 2008 (UTC)