Talk:Janet Reno

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Shouldn't there be some information on her well-known video-game hate? I don't know nearly enough about it to add anything, but I think it should be in the article, as it's a prominent fact about her. (In fact, it's why I came to the article!) aubrey 10:29, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

"Didn't she also roll up a lot of terrorist cells, put away the bad guys, prevent attacks?"

What's THIS doing in here?

24.250.246.178rhesusman Jan 24, 2005 2:43 UTC

Contents

[edit] Regarding Witch Hunt Information Page

Amcbride had deleted a link and stated the reason as being"one person's personal website isn't enough basis to include this criticism".

Everything stated in the Witch Hunt information page is based on fact. It is very relevent to the article regarding Reno's history as an attorney.

I would also point out to other incidents of Reno being involved in similar witch hunts:

http://www.ags.uci.edu/~dehill/witchhunt/ccla/pages/fijnje.htm - Bobby Fijnje, a 14 year-old boy who was a victim of a wrongful prosecution at the hands of Ms Reno and her gang.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/terror/cases/fijnje.html PBS description of the same case.

www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/734855/posts Free Republic article.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Piercetp (talk • contribs)

Thank you for your post. My understanding of wikipedia policy (WP:V) is that it does not matter if what's in that website is based on facts, because personal websites don't count as "published, reputable sources." Of the three new sources you've listed here:
  • The first is another personal website.
  • PBS is reputable, but while the article you cite documents jurors questioning Reno's decision, it does not document any accusations of her being involved in anything like a witch hunt.
  • Free Republic, as a moderated forum, comes closest to being a reputable, published source documenting the type of criticism you have included in the article. In my opinion it is not reputable enough to warrant inclusion in Reno's biography here, but I will not contest that point unless other Wikipedia editors speak up as well.
For these reasons, I will leave in the criticism, but attribute it to the author of the Free Republic post. --Allen 03:35, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response to Allen

Thank you for your response.

I have been looking for more articles and came across this article.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/Issues/1993-03-03/news/feature.html

I can find others but hopefully this is a good start.

Piercetp

Yes, that's much better. Thanks. I'll change the attribution again. On an unrelated note, you can sign your name to your talk page posts by typing "~~~~" after them. The software automatically converts it into a signature with your name and the time. --Allen 04:55, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


There's not a single word anymore on this topic in the current version of the article (or am I blind ?), while the source for these are still cited in the relevant section. It looks pretty weird, and it's also pretty unneutral in my humble opinion. An article about Janet Reno without a single word on the "witch hunt" and the Fijnje case is in my opinion absolutely unworthy of Wikipedia.

[edit] controversies

I'm removing a few of the points in the "controversies" section. In Biographies of living persons, it is especially important to have in-line citations for things that are perceived as negative. (Also, before adding these back with citations, please be sure that the citations show not simply that the point is true, but that they were actually controversial in a notable way.) --Allen 02:50, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] added some major cases

To read the original entry, you'd think that the only thing that had happened with the justice dept from 1992-2000 was waco, the brnach davidians, and elian gonzalez. Added other major justice dept cases under reno. I'm sure there are a bunch of others I've forgotten - in today's climate, I tend to think of all the terrorism cases, but that's hardly the only thing that was going on in the doj + fbi during this time - please add more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.125.97 (talk • contribs)


  • Surely there are better sources for criticisms of the branch davidian fiasco than the world socialist web site and alex jones? I pointed the criticism section's entry on the microsft case to wikipedia's own section criticising the case - if the lewrockwell.com article passes muster, it shoudl be linked from there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.125.97 (talk • contribs)

-- it just seems odd that most of the crticism on this page is from what people would consider more fringe sources. There must be a large supply of criticisms from more mainstream sources from the time. And it seemed odd that there is a one-off fringe source article linked attacking her on the microsfot prosecution when apparently that editorial doesn't pass muster to be on the actual wikipedia page discussing the case and criticisms of it. --I agree "mainstream" groups such as the National Rifle Association and American Civil Liberties Union were highly critical.

'She had a solid case, giving some officers immunity to testify, but the officers who reached jury trial were acquitted by an all white male jury'

This line doesn't sound very neutral. It heavily implies that she should have won the case but lost because the jury was white. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.117.229.206 (talk) 19:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Categories: Prosecutors, yes; District Attorneys, no

Reno does not belong in the category "District Attorneys" because she was never in a District Attorney's office. She was State's Attorney and Attorney General, not a District Attorney. Therefore she does belong in the category "Prosecutors".

In the state of Florida, there are no District Attorneys. The local prosecutors (AKA District Attorneys in other states & jurisdictions) are called State Attorneys. Specifically, Janet Reno was the State Attorney for the 11th Judicial Circuit of Florida ---Miami-Dade County--then called Dade County. There are 20 elected State Attorneys in Florida. The 11th Judicial Circuit of Florida is the largest prosecutors office in the state. People often confuse the terminology because Florida also has the elected office of Florida Attorney General which handles legal matters at a different level of the legal system--criminal appeals for example. The newly elected governor of Florida, Charlie Crist was the former Attorney General.

So to correct the discussion error, Janet Reno WAS the District Attorney for Dade County but was never titled as the District Attorney.

[edit] Lesbian?

Did I miss something, and is Janet Reno openly lesbian? That comment, I think, is much in need of a citation. Adamahill 07:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Truly you are blind. Please get thee to the nearest Wal-Mart and purchase a clue.68.188.151.191 18:59, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

In addition there is a reference (added Jan 5) that she is a transsexual. There is absolutely no news or information to support that addition, which clearly smacks of libel and Wiki abuse. Someone should remove this information unless they can cite a source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Writeralabama (talk • contribs) 15:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Contempt of Congress

There is no mention of Reno's citing for contempt of congress in this article, which occurred sometime around August 1998. She refused to turn over two subpoenaed Justice department memos related to fund-raising abuses in the 1996 presidential campaign. Is this a significant enough event that it should be added to her article? To this date, there have been only 10 Cabinet-level or senior executive officials cited for contempt of the American congress (Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and Commerce Secretary Rogers C. B. Morton in 1975; Health, Education and Welfare Secretary Joseph A. Califano Jr. in 1978; Energy Secretary Charles Duncan in 1980; Energy Secretary James B. Edwards in 1981; Interior Secretary James Watt in 1982; Anne Gorsuch Burford and Attorney General William French Smith in 1983; White House Counsel John M. Quinn in 1996; and Attorney General Janet Reno in 1998.... Attorney General Alberto Gonzales might make the 11th this year). --RootsLINUX 07:50, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Waco4.jpg

Image:Waco4.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:40, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semi protection

Why is this article semi protected? I see no evidence of persistent vandalism or edit warring. Also the last edit before mine was done on January 8th. I added semi protect icon for clarification. миражinred (speak, my child...) 16:47, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

well, that you don't see evidence of persistent vandalism means that the semi-protection is working, no? the article has a long history of vandalism, and being a BLP, it's good to have measures in place to reduce it. Anastrophe (talk) 17:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Most IP edits to this article over the past few years are just people insulting her appearance, and there was a big wave of vandalism on 1/4 when I semi-protected... anyway the semi-protection is scheduled to expire on 2/5/08. --W.marsh 18:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "The Butcher of Waco"

I don't think the epithet can be ignored entirely: it's definitely out there, and used by some WP-notable commentators like Geoff Metcalf. However, the article needs to make it clear that it's by no means a mainstream or widely-held opinion. I've tried to strike a compromise between the two sides in the recent edit war. If subsequent consensus emerges here for removal of any mention the nickname, that's fine with me too. Hqb (talk) 20:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I removed it as poorly sourced WP:BLP. All the sources I saw appear to be oped only, no secondary/tertiary sources. Jons63 (talk) 20:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
there's no question the term is known, though i clearly not widely. i had heard the term before. but as above, per BLP, the question of notability to a living person comes up, 'do no harm' comes up, and the reliability of the sources comes up. Anastrophe (talk) 20:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
also, worldnet daily generally fails WP:RS as i recall. Anastrophe (talk) 20:13, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
It gets 11 total results on Google News archive, but when sources like The Boston Globe and Washington Post use it, they specifically attribute it to militia and other "fringe" people, or they appear as letters to the editor. If the term is to be mentioned in the article it should explain who uses it. --W.marsh 20:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
OK, found a direct attribution in a scholarly source to militia activist and broadcaster Mark Koernke. Readded. Hqb (talk) 20:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Also linked to one of the Washington Post articles. Again, the article should make it clear that this is a fringe opinion, but still notable enough to have been mentioned (with a degree of revulsion) in mainstream media. Hqb (talk) 21:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I think that this is the relevant part of the policy:
In the case of significant public figures, there will be a multitude of reliable, third-party published sources to take material from, and Wikipedia biographies should simply document what these sources say. If an allegation or incident is notable, relevant, and well-documented by reliable published sources, it belongs in the article — even if it's negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it. If it is not documented by reliable third-party sources, leave it out.
To me this seems fairly clear that this belongs in the article in its current form. However the verifiability policy says@
Tiny-minority views and fringe theories need not be included, except in articles devoted to them
I would say that this represents the view of a tiny minority and need not be included, but it would not be wrong to included. I think that it basically comes down to whether or not we feel that it adds to the article to have this in it. I'm not sure as given the current short length of the article, I do not think that we give enough context. However, this is a bit of a chicken and the egg situation. --RicDod (talk) 21:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Here is another piece of policy that seems to apply from WP:Weight
From Jimbo Wales, paraphrased from this post from September 2003 on the mailing list:
  • If a viewpoint is in the majority, then it should be easy to substantiate it with reference to commonly accepted reference texts;
  • If a viewpoint is held by a significant minority, then it should be easy to name prominent adherents;
  • If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small (or vastly limited) minority, it does not belong in Wikipedia (except perhaps in some ancillary article) regardless of whether it is true or not; and regardless of whether you can prove it or not.
Since this is held by an extremely small minority, it does not belong. Jons63 (talk) 22:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
It's clearly a minority view, but I think the sentiment extends beyond just the lunatic fringe. For example, the previously mentioned Geoff Metcalf column at WorldNetDaily most likely has some resonance with a non-trivial fraction of US Conservatives. (After all, WND wouldn't want to alienate most of its regular audience.) So I think mentioning the "Butcher" tag in the Janet Reno article does help put her career in a larger context, illustrating her vilification by right-wing groups on any convenient pretext. Hqb (talk) 22:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Based on the sources provided and that I have found it appears to me to be a tiny minority. Based on Jimbo Wales opinion above, if it is a significant minority that holds this opinion, then it should be easy to name prominent people who agree with the name. One syndicated radio talk show host does not show that the name goes past a tiny minority of the population. Jons63 (talk) 14:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Even if the "Butcher of Waco" is a very fringe term, the article should still mention Waco, it had a profound impact on America at the time, especially with Timothy McVeigh giving Waco as his main reason. Even if it was a fringe criticism... Waco, and the Oklahoma City bombing McVeigh claimed Waco inspired, were two of the highest profile events of the 1990s in the US... it's a significant part of Reno's legacy. Therefore I think we should keep what we have now until someone writes something that better summarizes what I've mentioned here. --W.marsh 14:11, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
I definitely agree that the information about the siege at Waco should stay. It was an important aspect of her career as AG. I do not believe the name belongs at all. No one has shown that anything but a tiny minority of the population uses that name to refer to her. As such the name does not have enough significance to stay. Jons63 (talk) 14:31, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Fringe "nick-names" should not be included. It should be removed. 71.178.149.105 (talk) 15:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
the term is an epithet. this is a BLP. it doesn't belong. while i realize that comparison to other BLP's is fraught with pitfalls, consider Bill Clinton. a fairly widely employed epithet for him is "'Cigar' Bill". you don't find reference to that within the article, because, as a BLP, 'do no harm' trumps interest in the epithet. Anastrophe (talk) 18:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, no one has given any reason to overrule WP:BLP, do no harm, as such, until someone has a good reason to place it back into the article, I am removing it from the article. Jons63 (talk) 21:16, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Janet Reno / Chelsea Clinton joke

Is this really necessary to the article? I would think not, but I didn't want to edit it without somebody else's opinion. Inks.LWC (talk) 06:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

no, there's no reason for it to be there. it's just another asshat with an axe to grind. it fails at WP:BLP. it's in the John McCain article, where it belongs. i've removed it. Anastrophe (talk) 07:11, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] at the justice deparment

Recent attorneys general seem to have a lot of controversy around them as far as how they interpret the constitution and their ability to uphold the law aside from their personal beliefs, from subjects as broad as abortion to civil liberties. Were there just no issues such as this surrounding Reno? I would like to see more in the article about her style, controversial or not, about how she shaped the justice department and what laws she chose to lean on or be lenient on, not just who was captured during her tenure. 75.55.37.77 (talk) 20:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)Sandy

[edit] Bill: "My Biggest Mistake"

Is is true that Bill Clinton said Reno was his biggest mistake?[1]