Talk:Jana Gana Mana

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[edit] Transliteration citation

There is a note in the article saying that a citation is needed for the National Library of Kolkata transliteration. Do Wikipedia policies require transliterations to be cited? What sort of sources are acceptable on Wikipedia as sources to cite a transliteration? If someone can give me some guidance, I'll look for a source. -- Lexmercatoria 12:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "FACT" included in Trivia is INCORRECT.

Please note, the fact included in the trivia section of this page is incorrect. It states, "Rabindranath Tagore is the only person whose poems have been adopted as the national anthem of more than one country." Enoch Sontonga is a South African, who wrote a poem that was chosen as the national anthem of both Zambia South Africa and Tanzania. I've altered the trivia fact to reflect this. (5amuel 11:13, 11 July 2007 (UTC)).

Thanks for the correction! The point can perhaps be made that Tagore's two different poems have been adapted as national anthems of two countries, but the previous statement was incorrect as it stood. I wonder if we can even be certain that Tagore and Sontonga are the only persons with this distinction ?! Abecedare 11:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jana gana mana, explain reversion and source

I was recently reverted by Ruebens, who quotes a source from The Tribune for the changes, which does not anywhere mention "Thou art the ruler" as the translation into English from Sanskrit. In my opinion, it is the word "adhinayak" which means "ruler" in Sanskrit, and although it is not a part of "Jana Gana Mana" (which legitimately means "The Minds of the People" in Sanskrit), there are some sources which say otherwise Indianchild.com, National-anthems.net. This one, in particular, from Hamiltoninstitute.com, gives a very accurate translation and includes "adhinayaka" as a part of the first phrase of the anthem. So can we have a general agreement to keep it is - "Thou art the ruler of the minds of All People". One more source: Sankalpindia.com. Thank you. -- Zamkudi Dhokla queen! 09:01, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Allright, I was taking a literal translation. But what you're reverts were doing is that it is also reverting the inclusion that the music is derived from a composition for the song by Ram Singh Thakur, which was my main emphasis and what I referenced. I think the current version is fine.Rueben lys 10:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The role of Ram Singh Thakur is not clear

I'm confused. The article states:

"The music for the current version is derived from a composition for the song by Ram Singh Thakur."

Does this mean that Ram Singh Thakur composed an arrangement (i.e. added accompanying parts for other voices or musical instruments) for Rabindranath Tagore's original melody? Or does it mean that Ram Singh Thakur wrote a completely new melody for Tagore's poem and that this new melody is the one that is sung and played today? Please can someone clarify this point. It's quite important. Thank you. 62.64.207.76 23:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

This refers to role of Ram Singh. He was a bandmaster in the Azad Hind Fauj (or so-called Indian National Army). When the Andaman Islands were captured by the Japanese, the highest ranking officer of British Army of that abandoned fortress was Major Bijeta Chaudhuri (who later became Lieut. General, O.B.E and Surgeon General of the modern Indian Armed forces) who elected to stay behind to look after his men - spurning an offer to leave with the British on the last boats out. At Changi prison camp (Singapore) he was repeatedly approached by Subhash Chandra Bose to join the Japanese side - which he spurned. Chaudhuri was from an ancient Brahmo Samaj lineage and was himself married into the Tagore clan (actually his wife - RNT's grand-niece was given away in marriage by RNT himself at Jorasanko in 1932) and knew the Jana Gana Mana well - and Bijeta Chaudhuri used this Bengali Brahmosangeet song to keep up the morale of his men. The song became so famous in Changi for Indian determination that it was stolen (adopted) by the INA also when it was clear that the Japanese were going to lose, and this song became a rallying point for all Indians (Greater Indians) in the final days of WW-II. Ram Singh Thakur had nothing to do with this song or it's music. Sroy1947 (talk) 15:36, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for comments: Is the Bengali song a Hindi song?

Please go through the above discussion for detailed arguments. The song was and IS Bengali. Original and *exact* transcripts of the constituent assembly resolutions *DO NOT* mention any adoption of a "hindi version". Also, what exactly is a "Hindi version"?

My cards are on the table:

  • Please provide the exact line where the constituent assembly members mention that they are adopting a "hindi version" of a Bengali song.
  • Please explain to me what is exactly "Hindi version" of a Bengali song? Was any word changed? Was it translated to Hindi? Was the grammar changed? What is the difference between the written version of the song as written by Tagore, and the official written version of the song? (In case anyone claims pronunciation as a "translation", then would you support my claim that the English Wikipedia is written in "Bengali version" because I and some other Bengali speakers read the articles loud with a Bengali accent?)

Unless you can satisfactorily provide answers to the above questions, please do not keep pasting a "Hindi version". That Hindi is the national language or something like that of India is irrelevant: this is not the Hindi encyclopedia, so any other script than the song's original script is quite irrelevant. --Ragib 08:25, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The INA version

Would it be worthwhile adding a mention of the fact that Subhas Chandra Bose prepared a Hindi / Hindustani translation of this song in connection with the proclamation of Azad Hind? Not many people know about now, so it probably wouldn't qualify an article of its own, but it seems to me that the translation and its use by the INA was a notable event in the history of Jana Gana Mana, and probably merits a sentence or two in this article. -- Arvind 13:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. -- Yoshiroshin 04:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Punjab and Sindh

While Punjab and Sindh were parts of India when Tagore wrote the poem, but to Indians they would refer to the states of Punjab and parts of Gujarat and Rajasthan. Linking the name of a region in the Indian national anthem to a Pakistani province just seems wrong. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 17:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. I can see how "Punjab" can refer to both the region (including both the Pakistani and Indian states) and the Indian state itself, but I really don't see how people would reinterpret Tagore's mention of "Sindh" to be a reference to slivers of land in Gujarat and Rajasthan. The song was written well before the current boundaries, so we can't pretend that all the regions referred to are found solely within the modern state of India. The song wasn't written for modern-day India, but for the greater India (which existed then). If West Bengal decided to declare independence, that doesn't mean that we have to reinterpret Tagore's "Banga" as being "Bihar" or "Assam". The song is what it is, and there's no reason for us to change the meaning just because of what has happened in history since the song was written. --SameerKhan (talk) 20:13, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there is a need for linking any word from the song, and create more confusion. Tagore was referring to pre-partition British Indian regions, which may not be part of India anymore. It will be incorrect to "re-interpret" his words and link to wrong areas. --Ragib (talk) 20:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I guess this works. The national anthem has to have meaning. Is it then to be left to individual Indians to interpret these words ? One thing is clear, Sindh in this song should not link to the Pakistani province. This isnt any personal agenda, just that linking to a region that isnt even in India defies geography. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 01:09, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Second part of anthem

It looks like anthem of India has second part:

[1]

Day and night thy call spreads over the land
And we hear thy voice of salvation,
Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains,
Parsees, Muslims and Christians
Come from East and West to the foot thy throne,
Singing their song of devotion to thee.
Oh glory to thee, who unites our hearts and gives us good fortune!
Hail, hail, hail to thee for ever!

Why it isn't showed in the article? Regards, Iliassh (talk) 04:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)