User talk:James Frankcom

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Welcome!

Hello, James Frankcom, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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chocolateboy 10:20, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Syagrius

Why have you returned old version of Syagrius ? rjecina

Hi - thanks for writing. I am still a little cranky when it using wikipedia (the technical side)...and I may have not saved something properly. I added also added an illustration. James Frankcom

[edit] Flag

Hi. Where did you get the idea that actual regionalist groups use this flag?Image:Mercia.jpg? I fear you may have fallen victim to my hoax. As far as I know the only mercian prescence on the interweb that isn't obviously a hoax is the Acting Witan (who don't seem to use that flag), and I'm not even sure about them. Morwen - Talk 10:57, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Morwen. The flag is generally recognised as the flag of Mercia and is believed to have been a banner used by the Earls of Mercia in the 10th and 11th Centuries. It is found on the Arms of Tamworth (the historic capital of Mercia) and flies from Tamworth Castle. James Frankcom 12:43, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I know all that. What actual groups use it, apart from the mercian nationalist party, which is a hoax? Morwen - Talk 12:44, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Groups that are not necessarily on the internet. Everything does not have to be on the internet in order to be true. I have seen the flag in use by Mercian regionalists on many occasions. It is also acknowledged as the flag of the former realm of Mercia and is thus used by some regionalists to represent Mercia if it were to become a region. James Frankcom 13:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi. The problem is we need information to be verifiable - see Wikipedia:verifiability. It doesn't need to be on the internet, references to printed material will do. Since this info doesn't is from your own personal experience, we can't use it. If there are parties, you should at least be able to name one, even. Morwen - Talk 13:31, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Look at these sites:

http://www.englishprovinces.co.uk/html/mercia.html

http://www.flag-net.com/display_product.asp?id=1678&category=54

http://www.djclack.co.uk/djclack/rant.php

I think this provides more evidence than not that this flag is known to, and is being used by, Mercian and/or Midlands regionalist groups in the UK. James Frankcom 14:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Of these links - one is propsing it for the West Midlands, not the entire Midlands. The second is selling the flag as a "historical flag", and makes no mention of nationalistm/regionalism. The last is a copy and paste from Wikipedia's Mercia article, that you added the flag to! Morwen - Talk 14:21, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I think I have made my point and this "debate" is now becoming tedious. There is evidence that this flag is being used by regionalists, on the internet, and elsewhere. I don't like the tone of this and it feels like you are intentionally goading me. James Frankcom 14:28, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

No, I was just suprised to see it being claimed as a flag in active use. Considering I plucked the flag design off fotw.net some years ago and used it as a flag for my parody website, without having seen any political use of it, seeing it in actual use (even if only for the West Midlands) is interesting. Morwen - Talk 14:35, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Welsh in use in Northumbria; and referencing

Hi. I've removed or altered a couple of references to Welsh being spoken in the Bamburgh area in a period circa the fifth and sixth centuries. You had created a link to Welsh. That's a disambiguation page, and so it's good to link instead to a more specific article. We have several articles on the Welsh language and its different stages, but I am not sure it would even be the Old Welsh language then. Perhaps Brythonic would be a better link?

On a related note, I see you have created several articles which really could use some referencing. Wikipedia is having something of a reference-citing drive at the moment, in an attempt to make it clear where information has come from. At the moment, the articles Din Guardi and Bryneich are stubs, basically, and unless there is substantially more to add, I suspect they should really just redirect to the far more detailed Bamburgh Castle and Bernicia. (Similarly, is there a reason why Deifr should not redirect to and merge into Deira?) If there is little more to add to them, I may well propose them to become redirects. Morcant Bulc, while detailed, provides no references at all. Of the three references in Ebrauc, I presume that Annales Cambrae is a typo, but where in Annales Cambriae are the references to which bit of the article? I have found the Early British Kingdoms page about Northern England kingdoms but that is not nearly as long as the article here. The same really goes for the The History Files Ebrauc page. From where did the rest of the information come?

If you're not sure which article would be best to link to, btw, User:Rhion and User:Angr might have some suggestions on what language was being spoken in (what is now..) northern England at the time.

Finally, nice to see more of that period being filled in! In the future, you might be interested in some categories to add to similar articles: Category:Northumberland, Category:Yorkshire, Category:Durham, Category:British traditional history and Category:Sub-Roman Britain (remove the initial colon from those, put them at the bottom of articles, and they will magically happen); and some stub-types: UK-hist-stub and UK-bio-stub (stick those latter two in double {} brackets to get them to work).

--Telsa 17:32, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Telsa. I am going to go over those pieces and make sure they are fully referenced. I have been studying early Welsh history for about ten years and, I confess, some information in myt enthusiasm to inform others, has come from memory and needs citation. I agree that the articles about Deifr and Deira and Bryneich and Bernicia could be linked - but they were different states; it would be rather like saying Palestine and Israel should have the same page as essentially Israel is the successor state to Palestine. I am just discussing this, and would be keen to know what you think. In the meantime I will get on with some referencing... James Frankcom 15:50, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Welsh Wikipedians' notice board

I've created a fairly simple Wikipedia:Welsh Wikipedians' notice board (shortcut WP:WWNB) to try to get things started. Please have a look and consider signing on, adding it to your watchlist and helping to make sure any users with an interest in the subject know about it. Also please feel free to add things and to change anything you feel needs changing – I'm not under the impression that I own it! Rhion 20:57, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Wessex flag.gif listed for deletion

Admrb♉ltz (T | C) 03:39, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

The only place where I see the image was used is on my talk page at the moment. It is being deleted because its orphaned --Admrb♉ltz (T | C) 16:38, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

What does "orphaned" mean - sorry you have got me there! James Frankcom

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Evo_Morales5.jpg

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[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Machaca.jpg

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[edit] Antonio Machaca

Is there anything you could do to this article to provide a little more context? Like what country he's from, stuff like that? NickelShoe 20:23, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging Image:Red Dragon.gif

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[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Surrey_old.jpg

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[edit] Four lions banner

Hi James

Good to hear from you. I've put a bit more regarding the four lions banner on Talk:Kingdom of Gwynedd. Rhion 18:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lloegr, the lost land?

Hello again, James. Another quick question. I noticed that you are the author of this diff in which there is a reference to "Lloegyr, the 'lost lands'". The question of the meaning of the word Lloegr has cropped up a few times before on Wikipedia: see Talk:British Isles (terminology)#Lloegr and Talk:Celtic_nations#Lloegr for examples. The "lost country" is a popular translation, but it's proving hard to find a good cite for this. Do you have such a reference? If it exists, it would be great to have it, finally! Telsa (talk) 11:12, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

This is a problem. It is has been cited ennumerate times as the translation of the term Lloegyr. It is used throughout Bernard Cornwell's books amongst other places. Geoffrey of Monmouth said that the term originally came from a "King Loeger" who was a legendary son of the Trojan founder of various British dynasties called Brutus. Considering his other sons were "Camber" who ruled Wales and "Alba" who ruled Scotland, this appears to be extremely dubious as these territories did not form around 1000BC which is when Brutus, if he lived, would have lived, but much much later in the early middle ages. I agree, the entymology of this phrase needs to be uncovered, perhaps a fluent Welsh speaker can help us with this. James Frankcom

Hi James. The word is a difficult one, with no obvious link to any other word in Welsh that I know of. I have seen several meanings suggested ("the border lands" was one) but there doesn't seem to be any general agreement among academics about it. I'll see if I can get an opinion from Tomos Roberts, the archivist at the University here, who probably knows about as much as anyone living about Welsh place names. Rhion 14:41, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] autoblock

It was not the "James Frankcom" account that was blocked, but the IP address, and you were blocked as result of an "autoblock". When an IP address is blocked, unfortunately everyone who uses that IP address is also blocked temporarily, even logged-in users. That's a "feature" of the software that Wikipedia uses.

The IP address vandalized several times in rapid succession [1] [2] [3] [4]. Coincidentally, this same IP address has edited some of the same articles as you have, eg Maredudd ab Owain Glyndŵr, Catrin ferch Owain Glyndŵr, so if this is a corporate colleague of yours and you have some idea who it might be, please ask him not to vandalize Wikipedia.

-- Curps 17:56, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Well....they are pages I have never seen. This is a computer at a local government authority in London and it is possible that the IP address changes from time to time depending on what the servers are doing, so that the IP address you saw had made those changes was no longer this terminal, but another. It is also possible that someone covering for me here made those changes...It certainly was not me doing it. I always try to log in before doing anything on here. James Frankcom

[edit] Surrey

Back on 2006-01-17 you did an edit to Surrey including the phrase; "it comprised of Lord Lieutenant and custos,". I cannot believe custos is what you meant - what should it be? If indeed you really mean that, could you make it a link and explain what custos are? -- SGBailey 10:40, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi, "custos" is a mistake and should actually be "Custos Rotulorum" which means the Chief Magistrate in the County and is a title held by all Lord Lieutenants. I have amended the entry accordingly, thanks for bringing it up James Frankcom

[edit] Heya!

Good Lord, is everyone on here? :o)

If you wanna hit edit on my user page, you can see how to do the Latin infobox thing; feel free to nick any of the wikicode on there, of course. Hope to see you again soon, mate! — OwenBlacker 13:38, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] redirect

The articles Maredudd ap Cynan ab Owain Gwynedd and Maredudd ab Owain Gwynedd appeared to be identical. I have merged them. I assume you know to use #redirect if you want an alternative title. If there are any other duplicates lurking among your long list of Foo ap Bar titles, please merge them! -- RHaworth 07:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I knew that this mistake (regarding Maredudd ap Cynan ab Owain Gwynedd) had happened but I did not know how to delete the erronous page. Please note that the long name is the proper one, NOT "Maredudd ab Owain Gwynedd" who did not exist. Thank you! James Frankcom

The long name is the proper one - so move the article then. -- RHaworth 07:51, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aww

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[edit] Image Tagging for Image:Boris of montenegro.jpg

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[edit] Tried to return your email...

...and it bounced as undeliverable. In any case, per the discussion above you had with Curps... don't worry about it. If you do find yourself blocked, you can email admins and give them the text of the block message so we can try go get you unblocked. BTW - the notice where you saw my name was an old old vandalism from December 2005. There was something newish on that page, but it wasn't my notice. Cheers! Syrthiss 16:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Küçüm

Nice (ongoing) work on the Siberia Khanate entry. I noticed you created a new entry for Küçüm, but there is an existing entry for Kuchum. Perhaps they should be merged. -- Takwish 00:09, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Got your email (I should check that account more often). Tried to reply, but it bounced--so I'm replying here. As you no doubt noticed, I added some more material from your Kucham page and the Siberia Khanate page to the Kuchum page, then converted the Kucham page to a redirect. I think the Kuchum page would benefit from some additional attention from you, though. -- Takwish 22:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FBSC

I've added the "{{prod}}" template to the article FBSC, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at Talk:FBSC. You may remove the deletion notice, and the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. TheRingess 00:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Untagged image

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[edit] Image:Nephilim.gif

I'm concerned about the copyright status of Image:Nephilim.gif. The image tag you used asserts that the image is in the public domain, but the upload information indicates that the artist of the painting is unknown. Where then, did you find the image (could you give a URL)? Could you clarify what is known about the painting (such as what country the painting is from, what time period the painting is from, its current location in the real world, etc.)? Thanks! —Lowellian (reply) 10:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Nephilim.gif listed for deletion

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[edit] White Dragon of Mercia

On Flags of the World you wrote:

"There is a medieval map of the English "heptarchy", a period where there were seven Anglo-Saxon kingdoms at war with each other. This map, made I believe in the 12th Century after the heptarchy period is illustrated with banners of the kingdoms. Those shown for Essex, Kent and Sussex appear to be very similar to their "county standards" today, while East Anglia has three crowns on a white background, Mercia appears to have a white dragon of some kind. James Frankcom, 30 July 2001"

Do you have any more information about this map? Thanks. TharkunColl 09:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The map can be viewed here - however I was wrong about the white dragon. Mercia is indicated by a banner rather like the scottish saltire except yellow on blue. See this link: http://www.antiquemaps.com/uk/examples/blaeu/saxon.jpg James Frankcom 14:03, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:DaudiCwa.jpg

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[edit] License tagging for Image:Gwynedd - correct.JPG

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[edit] Banners and Coats of Arms for Wales

Hello James, I wanted to commend you on the coats of arms you drew for for Gwynedd, Gruffydd ap Cynan, Deheubarth and for Mathrafal. I have a link to other coats of arms if you could redraw them and make them larger, they are retro-actively assigned to a few dynasties/lordships in Wales. Drachenfyre 07:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Harjavalta arms.jpg

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[edit] Cunedda ap Cadwaladr ap Gruffydd

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[edit] Image source problem with Image:Llywelyn head.jpg

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[edit] AfD nomination of Howys de la Pole

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[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Richard de la pole.jpg

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[edit] Ieuan ab Owain Glyndŵr

The article Ieuan ab Owain Glyndŵr, created by you, has been tagged as a hoax (not by me). If it had been created by an anonymous user I'd readily agree with the tag as I've never come across any reference to him (see Talk:Ieuan ab Owain Glyndŵr). I'm sure you are not a hoaxer, however, the article makes such a surprising claim that it really must have a reliable and verifiable source. If you can't provide one it will almost definitely be deleted (rules of the game and all that). Just thought you should know, in case you were not aware of the situation. Regards, Enaidmawr (talk) 00:46, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peter Bartrum and University of Wales (Aberystwyth)

For those unfamiliar the work of Peter Bartrum is being put on to a data base by fellows of the College of Aberystwyth (University of Wales). I refer you to this;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/6106074.stm

This process is ongoing. Peter Bartrum has researched Welsh genealogies since 1929. I was personally emailed some scanned copies of parts of his manuscripts which I am interested in by Dr. Gwen Gruffudd of the University of Wales at Aberystwyth which mention the sons of Owain Glyndwr. Please if you doubt you may get in touch with the college and ask to speak to her. Among the sons detailed in Bartrum's work is Ieuan ab Owain Glyndwr, referred to as a bastard son, who had children of his own and grand children. That is where Peter Bartrums research appears to end, so therefore, it is entirely possible that their are male line descendants of the sons or grandsons of Ieuan ab Owain Glyndwr and therefore heirs to the line of Glyndwr and by extension that of Rhodri Mawr waiting to be discovered. If anyone has any further doubts I would happily forward them a scanned copy of the page from Bartrums original manuscript. Furthermore, according to tradition it was this Ieuan who proclaimed a free state in Abergavenney in 1404. This page on Ieuan ab Owain Glyndwr is not a hoax page, it is potentially of significant importance to Welsh royal research, so please do not delete it. If Enaidmawr would like me to email him/her the pages of Bartrum's work that I have please email me at jfrankcom@btinternet.com James Frankcom 15:01, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi James, and thanks for your message and the information provided. I've just written an article on Peter Bartrum, if you are interested you may be able to fill it out a bit. I'm glad to hear he's still with us - I wasn't sure as he was born way back in 1907! Of course his work is well known to me and he is a respected scholar, I'd just not heard about the Ieuan ab Owain Glyndŵr material. I'm still not sure I quite understand if the references to Ieuan are in his published works (voluminous though they are I'd have expected someone like R. R. Davies to have found it) or in his unpublished notes/copies of texts. I'll take you up on your kind offer and email you shortly. I'm afraid some people may well still insist on some solid reference though; have you anything? The BBC article doesn't help much as it doesn't mention Ieuan. As I said, it was not me that tagged the article as a hoax and I'd be delighted if this can be properly substantiated (you can't blame people for being dubious if no verifiable reference is given). Hwyl am rwan, Enaidmawr 23:40, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

please note [5] Abtract (talk) 10:50, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

please note the article has now been referenced to the source material; Welsh Genealogies A.D. 300 - 1500, P. C. Bartrum; Bleddyn ap Cynfyn 5; Bleddyn ap Cynfyn 5 (A) (pages 32 and 67)

[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Owen de la pole.gif

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[edit] Image source problem with Image:Arms Llywelyn.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Arms Llywelyn.gif. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

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[edit] Welsh Triads

Wikipedia is not a collection of texts, so please do not reproduce the text of the Welsh Triads in the article. They are already collected at Wikisource, which is the appropriate place for them. Besides, your text appears to have been lifted from this site, which would be a copyright violation. --Nicknack009 (talk) 21:28, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Meredith ap ieuan.gif

Thank you for uploading Image:Meredith ap ieuan.gif. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this image under "fair use" may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the image description page and add or clarify the reason why the image qualifies for fair use. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a fair use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for images used under the fair use policy require both a copyright tag and a fair use rationale.

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[edit] Image:Anjouan 2008 b.JPG missing description details

Sfan00 IMG (talk) 13:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

The map also is in need of a scale: how big is a mile or kilometer on this map? -- Yellowdesk (talk) 15:14, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

It is also NOT public domain. It is a trivial derivative of another map he uploaded which was swiped from a third party source without credit. Anyone else noticing a pattern here? Grumble. Brianski (talk) 04:21, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi James, sorry if I came off a bit harsh, please don't stop contributing because you are afraid of copyrights, just do a little homework first so you we can keep your contributions! It's frustrating to have to throw out good content because we can't use it! I'm glad to see you are reading your feedback page and seeing that there is a problem - I figured you weren't seeing it / were ignoring it. My mistake not to assume good faith! In any event, I'm not an expert on copyrights, as I mostly upload current maps from NASA, which are all public domain. I saw on your talk page a link to the media copyright questions page, which is probably a good place to start. When I have questions, I've sometimes found it helpful to get in touch with wikipedia folks on IRC. Good luck! -- Brianski (talk) 22:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] k.o Gwynedd

Thank you James for adding to the Kingdom of Gwynedd page. I am still adding more, working on info on Owain Gwynedd's reign, and working my way down. I added further info of the 1136-37 Great Revolt as well. Do you know how we can get some more maps? Of particular importance are maps of Gwynedd showing the various cantrefi and commotes,... preferably in the reigns of Gruffydd and Owain. Also, a map showing the advance of the Normans in the first invasions of Gwynedd between 1081-1098. Then on the principality page we will need maps there too. I have maps in front of me, but clearly can not scan and add them per copyright.

Hi - whats your username? I have some maps of the old Cantrefi which can be found in the book Llywelyn Ap Gruffudd: Prince of Wales by J.Beverley Smith. I could trace them and then scan them and then recolour them. I think that would make them acceptable as material suitable for wikipedia. I am a little anxious about even doing that because as you can see I keep falling foul of some of these rules and am trying to avoid getting involved with graphics!! James Frankcom (talk) 15:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Doh! That was myself! Lol. I do not think creating a map is in and of itself against anything... even displaying political boundries and advancing armies shouldnt be an issue. Humm...♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 16:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey Drachenfyre nice to speak to you again. A while back you mentioned you had some family arms of some of the old Welsh families and regions which you thought could be "back engineered" like the work done on Powys and Deheubarth... care to share them with me? Email me at jfrankcom@btinternet.com ... I will find that book my J. Beverley Smith (I think it is down the back of the sofa or something) and trace those maps... James Frankcom (talk)

Yes, Ill email them to you tonight or tomorrow (I hope I still have the link for them, I uncoverned them for a game I play called Crusader Kings by Paradox, have you heard of it?) More then likely you have seen them before. Also, I noticed that there is a discrepancy between the map of the cantrefs and the cantrefs listed on the Administrative section. To be honest I do not know the correct cantrefs, but if you could correct the list to the one we have a source for, then that would be best. Can you source the map outline too? What I mean is, we will need some sources from where we get the administrative districts from... you already have the source with the author you listed. It is fine to credit her with the origional research, because you yourself created the artwork it does not break any copyrights.♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 21:45, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

One last thing: what do you think on the border color? I am working with Wikid77 on borders for Wales, and also the historic kingdoms as well. What two colors would you recommend for Gwynedd? I was thinking a purple background with a golden name border. And then on the Principality page to have a green border with golden name border.♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 21:45, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi - okay the map outline comes from [6] and the source of the borders and the cantrefs I have illustrated is from here: [[7]] which is the only map (However basic) online which I can find. I had a better map in the book I was talking about but I cannot find it and I wanted to get something up to hopefully encourage someone else to contribute something superior. I am aware that the map I have done does not include the Cantref of Dunoding (but over the period Cantrefs did come and go with some which were former kingdoms being renamed after they were granted to someone else. The map shows only Cantrefi not Commotes. I think my instincts for the Principality of Wales page would be red and green (as in the flag). Why not red and gold for Gwynedd which were the colours of its banner? I'll leave it happily to your judgement, whatever aesthetically looks most appropriate should win really! By the way - one thing that alarms me - is that sometimes you can revisit a page where you know there has been a lot of evolution from various contributers to find it suddenly totally re-arranged and large parts even deleted by just one user, is there a way of locking some things down so large scale changes by new users can't happen? Finally - it is nice to meet someone online I seem to have so much in common with! James Frankcom (talk)

Indeed, it is great that we have so much in common! I know it is difficult sometimes when it seems that you are the sole contributor to a subject. My first artical on Wikipedia was Melisende of Jerusalem, which hasnt changed much since. I redid the series from her father to her granddaughter Sibylla of Jerusalem. Then I migrated (in Wikipedia) to Wales... because Wales has my heart, lol. I rewrote the Kingdom of Powys as at the time (thats when we first 'met' I believe) so few were concerned with Powys. Now that I have learned far more, I need to revisit Powys and touch it up, and list my sources for various sections there. But that is after a few other pages (Gwynedd, Prinicipality of Wales, and Deheubarth. Also, I wish to work on the Mideival Church in Wales which I feel is always neglected.) Ive also written the History of Plaid Cymru, and the History of the Welsh language (at least since the 20th century), and touched up on the Welsh people artical. Now, I hope to rewrite the Wales page... make it more professional.

My origional source for the coats of arms is offline now. Unfortunatly, however I did find these secondary sources someone drew up for me a few years ago:

http://www.fulcho.com/shields/ceredigion.png http://www.fulcho.com/shields/deheubarth.png http://www.fulcho.com/shields/gruffydd-ap-cynan.png http://www.fulcho.com/shields/Gruff...or-I-ap-Mad.png http://www.fulcho.com/shields/gwynedd.png http://www.fulcho.com/shields/gwynfardd-dyfed.png http://www.fulcho.com/shields/morgannwg.png http://www.fulcho.com/shields/olwain-glyn-dwr.png http://www.fulcho.com/shields/powys-fadog.png http://www.fulcho.com/shields/powys-wenwynwyn.png

I do not know where he based this information from. The source I had that is now off line included many northern Welsh families. I will try and find out why the site is now off line. ♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 23:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Found it!!!

By Rhodri ap Dafydd,

http://www.rhodriapdafydd.ukonline.co.uk/

Of particular interest is the '15 tribes' or clans (families) which became established in these realms. He lists his sources, though I certin the coats of arms are latter day attributions, as coats of arms was not adopted in Wales until the norman conquest.♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 23:06, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes I have come across that site by "rhodri ap dafydd" myself but I am very sceptical about the shields attributed to each of those fifteen royal tribes. There are good sources for at least four of the main "royal tribes" though. I LOVE the shields you have posted for Ceredigion etc however the shield attributed to Gruffydd ap Cynan I think is a mistake because there is a contemporary painting of Llywelyn ap Gruffydd showing that shield as his own arms, where as a shield the reverse of what you have posted (three white leopards on a red field) seems more frequently attributed to him James Frankcom (talk) 21:44, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

By the way - one thing that alarms me - is that sometimes you can revisit a page where you know there has been a lot of evolution from various contributers to find it suddenly totally re-arranged and large parts even deleted by just one user, is there a way of locking some things down so large scale changes by new users can't happen?

Per your last point, I do not know of any way to lock down a page unles it is via a moderator, who would lock down the complete page. But to get them to do this, you would have to show why you and your editor can not work together on that.♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 23:43, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gwynedd maps

Cantrefi lordship/administrative maps:
I think your map is great! Two things: I think we should add the cantref's of Maelor (Wrexham area) and Iâl (Yale) ... and also prehaps shade upper Gwynedd different from lower Gwynedd. The shading should be within the same colour family too.

For the Info box:

For the info box, can you create something simular to this French language map on Gwynedd? http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royaume_de_Gwynedd

With the French language map they do not have as precise cantrefi names. And if you notice, they give Dogfeiling and Ederynion to Powys... which may or may not be correct in the early dark ages of Powys/Gwynedd history... but post Owain Gwynedd was not this region under Gwynedd's control? So I think we should add them to Gwynedd's map, or shade them in a way to show that they sometimes were part of Powys. You will also notice that the French language map omits Tegeingle as well. This should be your map.

For the info box, I do think we will need the whole of Wales represented here, but as of 1101 ... the start of the Welsh march. The French language map shows pre-Norman Wales... which would be correct for a map before 1081.. and we should have that map too... but not in the info box.

I do like how the French info box has the cantref's listed for the principalities in question, and shows them in the context of the other Welsh principalities.

What are your comments on the above?♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 01:19, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I think a definitive source is the map in the bloody book I cannot find... however Gwynedd is "between the Dyfi and the Dee". I know that Iâl and Maelor were both cantrefs traditionally considered to be within Powys, as was Edeirnion (there is a poem I have seen somewhere where the "men of Powys" lament the fact that forces from Gwynedd are encamped in Edeirnion. The boundaries were fluid but if we remain fixed to a Gwynedd "between the Dyfi and Dee" this should remove any points of serious contention. Tegeingl was one of the disputed "four cantrefs" and considered part of the Perfeddwlad and thus a traditional part of Gwynedd. Note that on the French map "dogfeiling" appears to be an alternative name for Ardudwy. I say keep the map at the moment until a better original source comes to light and then amend it. I agree that "disputed" areas between Powys and Gwynedd could be shaded differently but retain the key point of "traditional" Gwynedd being between those two rivers James Frankcom (talk) 17:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I have just revised the cantref map for Gwynedd and replaced "Ardudwy" and "Eifionydd" (which appear to be Commotes) with Dunoding to reflect the text on the page James Frankcom (talk) 21:17, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] William de la Pole the Elder

I think you should be aware that I have nominated the above for WP:AFD on the grounds that the is no evidcne that the father of William de la Pole (of Hull), formerly called "William de la Pole the Younger", was related to the princes of Powys Wenwynwyn. I base this on reputable published historical works. If you have reason to believe that the relationship that you allege did exist, you need to cite your sources - preferably academci works. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:03, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Site your works, if you are right, then the page should be removed. The information came from a genealogical website online ([8] and may be incorrect James Frankcom (talk)

I have voted on the subject on the page in question♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 08:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

Hi. Just a quick note to say thanks for all the amazing work you have done to document Welsh history. Please let me know if I can help with referencing Bye for now. ∞☼Geaugagrrl^(T)/_(C) 17:50, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Great Map Update

Great Map update! Great work. Two observations... prehaps the cities should be shown in yellow/gold to contrast better with the darker green? Also, I think we should add Bangor, St. Alseph, Rhuddlan, Chester (though it is outside, it was an important location) and possibly Ruthin. Lastly, I think we should shade the rest of Wales (here, mostly Powys) to distinguish it from England. ♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 06:43, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I am working on Version II which will be uploaded in the next couple of days - thanks for all the nice comments! James Frankcom (talk) 13:14, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] An Award!!

		The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
		For tireless contributions towards maps and banners of Medieval Wales! ♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 06:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Keep up the great work! Your maps have helped me understand mideival Wales better!, and your Banners are first rate! ♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 06:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry

Sorry but I reverted your edit to Godalming about Chris Evans. Partly because I wasn't sure which Chris Evans so I couldn't check it and partly because you said it was Hascombe anyway. PS Nice barnstar Regards SuzanneKn (talk) 18:14, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Llais350.jpg}

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[edit] Image:Gb-w-vrb.jpg

[edit] Shortcuts

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∞☼Geaugagrrl^(T)/_(C) 18:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)