Talk:James T. Kirk/Archive1

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Contents 1 James Cawley 2 Future/Past 3 Non Canon 4 Ladies 5 Star Trek Generations 6 Apple green Jacket? 7 Current Rank 8 Race

[edit] James Cawley

How about James Cawley who plays Kirk in Star Trek New Voyages. There's no mention of him in this article.

Because he's a fan who plays Kirk in his poorly produced fan film that isn't official. He has no business being mentioned here. If we mentioned him, we'd have to mention every single fan who played Kirk on their YouTube films.

[edit] Future/Past

Take this all in good fun, but since star trek takes place in the future shouldn't read he will be born or he will be the captain :)Smith03 02:56, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I think it's understood that he "was" born in the context of the future, fictional Star Trek universe...it would be kind of weird to say he "will be born" into something that isn't real :) Adam Bishop 03:06, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

See also: slash fiction? I can understand its relation to Star Trek, but why place the link here? Removed for now, revert if you like. --Ardonik 00:41, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Non Canon

I don't think that the plots of non-canon books should be included in this article. Does anyone have an idea about what to do with them?

Acegikmo1 08:31, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with you. Give the Shatnerverse its own entry, away from mainstream ST continuity. Perhaps it could be treated as an ST alternate universe?

User: Calibanu 15.09, 30 July 2006

According to Leonard Nimoy in his real world books, The ACTORS were charged with being the "keeper" of the character by Gene. There was more than one writer, cranking out scripts willy-nilly, with no continuity except that which the ACTORS gave them. If Nimoy said, "Spock would never say/do that!" then he would bring it to Gene who would give the ultimate re-write. In that context, Shatner is as good an authority as Gene himself, and in complete command of Kirk. During the 1960 series, Shatner took Nimoy's lines (common knowledge) establishing Shatner as an authority of the character, Kirk.

[edit] Ladies

I know it would be a bit of a project, and I am not the man to take it on, but how can there really be a wikipedia entry on Kirk with no mention of the bevy of ladies wheeled on as 'Romantic Interest'?!? Surely there should be a list, with brief details of appearance, episode, etc etc... Come on you Trekkers - build the list build the list build the list...--Yyem 12:34, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I do have to agree, Kirk is quite the man-whore... something needs to be mentioned about this... 72.69.128.184 04:22, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

In the Shatnerverse, Shatner himself establishes that Carol was his one true love who took David away from him. Thus, heartbroken, Kirk has cheap meaningless one night stands with every woman in the galaxy. According to Shatner, Kirk did not want to fall in love with or develop a relationship with anyone else. "He loved them all, and always would." Shatner wrote, and the "cure" for Elasian tears was the Enterprise herself.

[edit] Star Trek Generations

Little confusion about when the first part of Star Trek Generations was set. Info I have from sources says it was in 2295. Star Trek VI was set in 2293 and the Enterprise-B launch was 2 years later. Am I off? Let me know...Husnock 12 Sep 2004

I'm not sure, but TOS is generally set 300 years in the future, so a movie released in 1991 would normally be 2291 (and 2 years later would then be 2293). But that's not set in stone, of course. Adam Bishop 05:08, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

At the end of season 1 of TNG, Data tells some people from the 21st century that by their calendar is is 2364. In Generations Geordi comments that the first season Farpoint mission was "seven years ago", making it 2371 in the later portion of Generations. Since the caption "78 years later" follows the action at the beginning of Generations, then we can say with confidence that the beginning section is set in 2293.

The idea that there is two years between ST VI and the launch of the Enterprise-B is not supported by canon. It seems that only a few weeks or months passed in actual fact.

However I have also heard speculation that several years pass, since there is no reference in STVI that the Enterprise-B was under construction. It would explain the decommissioning of the relatively new 1701-A, however, but there's really nothing in canon to say exactly what the interval was between STVI and the launch of the ENT-B. 23skidoo 15:52, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Such speculation cannot be true, unless we want to disregard what is actually said in the episodes and movies. As for there being nothing in canon to say what the interval was - every date I gave was specifically stated on screen. You don't get more canon that that, and those dates prove that the E-B was commissioned very shortly after the E-A was retired.

As for the E-A being quite new, we don't know. One theory is that the E-A was previously another ship which was renamed in honour of the 1701, so it actually wasn't new at all. Certainly it would be odd for the Federation to still be rolling out Constitution class ships when the new Excelsior class was already in testing. And in any case, inserting two or three years wouldn't help the problem much - you'd need to add more like two or three decades to make a new-build E-A suitably aged for retirement.

There's a stardate given in Generations, but there has never been a canonical translation of what the stardates translate to in terms of weeks or months. Show me where in Generations - chapter and verse - where it says only a few weeks or months passed after STVI. PS. Please sign your comments using four ~ symbols. Thanks. 23skidoo 23:33, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

As I said earlier - in the season one episode "The Neutral Zone", it is established that season 1 of the Next Generation takes place in 2364 - Data actually says "By your calendar it is the year two thousand three hundred sixty-four." In the TNG portion of Generations, when Data and Geordi are on the observatory Data is laughing at a joke Geordi told on the Farpoint mission. Geordi says "that was seven years ago!" - so the TNG portion of the movie must be taking place in 2371. Now recall that the caption at the start of the TNG section reads "78 years later". So the E-B's encounter with the Nexus is 78 years prior to 2371, i.e. 2293.

Therefore, the launch of the E-B was NOT in 2295.

Your numbers are correct, but that doesn't answer the question as to when Star Trek VI takes place, which is the crux of the argument that the E-B was launched mere weeks or months after the events of that film, which contains no reference to a standard calendar date (and the 1000 stardates = 1 earth year calculation does not apply to pre-TNG stardates). We can most certainly say when the E-B was launched, but there is nothing in the canon to suggest how long after STVI that was (except that it was long enough for Kirk to get some Grecian formula treatment for his hair ;) ). 23skidoo 22:07, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

We do know that in ST VI, McCoy says he has served on the Enterprise for 27 years. Since season 1 is set in 2266, that puts First Contact in 2293.

[edit] Apple green Jacket?

From all the Kirk fans, some previews of the "end of series" episodes of Enterprise show a very quick scene of Captain Archer wearing Kirk's "apple green" jacket, standing in wat looks like Kirk's stateroom from the original series. Any ideas on if this is the long awaited Kirk connection? Hmmm. -Husnock 22Mar05

Reply...

Template:Spoiler That is a scene from a Mirror Universe episode ("In a Mirror, Darkly") and Mirror-Archer is wearing the uniform of the captain of the USS Defiant from "Tholian Web" (you have to see the episode or seek more detailed spoilers to figure that all out). There's no connection between this and Kirk's return ALTHOUGH there is a rumor that an early script for this episode did feature Kirk. The general consensus is UPN wouldn't agree to pay Shatner's price (or ABC wouldn't let him do a show on a rival network) and nothing could be arranged before ENT was cancelled. Shatner was quoted as saying that he might have appeared in the fifth season opener, but that's moot now. 23skidoo 19:17, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Current Rank

Current rank: captain? Current as of when?

Please sign your comments with four ~ symbols. He had the rank in his final (canonical) appearance in Generations. Since this is a template, I don't think it can be changed to read "final rank" or something like that. 23skidoo 12:34, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Race

Perhaps I'm being picky, but Kirk is listed as being of 'race: human'. Shouldn't this be 'species: human', or 'family: human'? Comparing the various definitions at Dictionary.com suggests that 'phylum' would be the most appropriate term - the Star Trek universe has lizard men, for example, and rock monsters. The show throws a spanner in the works by having humans, Klingons, Vulcans and so forth interbreeding, but 'race' seems much too low down the taxonomy ladder. -Ashley Pomeroy 17:39, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Technically, yes, race is incorrect; I think this comes second in common Star Trek English errors (right after the "to boldly go" split infinitive). However, when used in Star Trek, it can be defended: during the time in which it is set, "race", as we use it, is redundant, and so can be 'pushed up' (as it were). On here, however, you can't quite use that excuse, perhaps it should read "Race: American" (not that that does not raise questions), personally I favour "Species: Homo sapien". --Cerveau 20:24, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, I once had to correct an edit from someone who put Kirk's race as "caucasian". The reason I did that is in the context of Star Trek it's made clear that by the timeframe of the franchise, humans were identified in the grand scheme of things as humans, not blacks, Asians, whites, etc. - in the case of Vulcans we've seen black, white and Hispanic-esque Vulcans yet they're never referred to as anything but Vulcan. There are clearly white and black Klingons too. I agree that if Kirk is to be identified with a "genome" it should be "human" (not homo sapien as it could be argued that Trek has shown us "alien" beings that could be considered homo sapien, too. 23skidoo 21:00, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

In a completely irrelevant little Trekkie nitpick sideline, there aren't "white and black" Klingons. The "white" Klingon seen in one of the movies was an albino. 86.146.222.98 00:49, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the term species should be used, however, since the Star Trek world is rather large and self-contained, I would think it would be more fitting to point to Human_(Star Trek) -- i.e.: species: human --Inarius 17:28, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Larry Niven & Azimov both showed how outside of Earth, humans will evolve into something a little different, so Homo Sapiens is out. Human or Terran should be in. Niven adapted one of his stories for the Animated Series and Azimov was the go-to "Science Guy" for the Original Series. Unrelated to Kirk, I know but on the topic of Species-ism. TNG introduced a "Pak" like precursor to all "humanoids" (Niven)

In science fiction, a race generally means the same thing as a species. It is OK to say "Race: Human" as opposed to "Vulcan," "Borg," or "Talaxian." But in real-world biology, a geographical race or variation is not the same thing as a species, although the term is sometimes used interchangeably with "subspecies." 153.2.246.31 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 06:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)