Talk:Jagdtiger

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Germany Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces (general topics): Military technology and engineering task force Weaponry task force Associated task forces (nations and regions): German military history task force Associated task forces (periods and conflicts): World War II task force

Has anybody else heard of Jagdtigers with 88mm guns installed due to shortage of the 128mm?

Peabody11 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.156.42.129 (talk • contribs)

I half remember hearing something like that. If you can find a source, by all means mention it. --DanielCD 18:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did it, or didn't it??

Quote" Not every Jagdtiger, however, enjoyed the luxury of mounting this formidable weapon. By the start of 1945, the 12.8 cm gun was in such short supply that Steyr-Daimler-Puch was forced to mount the 8.8cm L/71 KwK 43 gun...in the last 26 Jagdtigers completed"

German Tanks of World War 2 Dr. S. Hart and Dr. R. Hart ISBN1-897884-37-0

which quotes as it's source: National Records Archieves Administration, Washington D.C (captured German records, records of the Inspector General of Armed Forces)

I do however admit, and thus refrain from including this info..that I have never seen it anywhere else. If other references are available, I'd be curious as well.

Motorfix 02:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I heard of only 4 to 5 to be equipped with the 88L/71, there was no lack of 128 mm guns but the carriage/internal mountings to hold the weapon. AFAIR it was no production Jagdtiger but the prototypes to be rearmed. --Denniss 16:38, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Just my opinion, but if you look at the tank at Aberdeen, it clearly has a much smaller diameter gun than that found on a standard JT. Looks like a 88/L71 to me.

Harry 138.162.8.57 (talk) 20:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jagdtiger vs ISU-122

What's got the stronger gun in terms of AP - Jagdtiger or ISU-122?chubbychicken 03:39, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

• ISU-122:Armor penetration at 1000 m at 0 degrees, BR-471: more than 150 mm

"Mechanical shock and explosion was often enough to knock-out enemy AFV without any armour penetration."

• And there was also plenty of larger ISU-152 with the BR-540 AP projectile (weighing 48.9 kg and fired at 600 m/s. Mieciu K 21:20, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Super-heavy?

What's with this designation as a super-heavy AFV or tank? Seems completely arbitrary to me and should be omitted if there is no source other than another wiki article. DMorpheus 14:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Well it's not a tank, for one. A tank has a rotating turret. It's a tank destroyer. Whether it's super-heavy or not is another matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.75.110.235 (talk) 00:50, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I have re-added the fact tag to this statement and would appreciate it if no one removes it unless/until a published source can be found. DMorpheus 13:32, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

look there is no other tank heavier than this Fact! ok. User:Lord_viruscide —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 18:57, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Three things: One, the Jagdtiger was not a tank, but a self-propelled gun. Two, the category "super-heavy tank" appears to be arbitrarily defined here on wikipedia so as to include the Jagdtiger; thus it is circular reasoning to so label it in this article. Three, there have been other, heavier AFVs. Probably none that saw combat but you'd need to cite that. Regardless, kindly do not remove fact tags from the article again. Thank you. DMorpheus 19:25, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

What exactly makes the Jagdtiger super-heavy? At 71.7 tons it is just 5% heavier than the Tiger II (at 69 tons). I suggest this sentence be removed as OR unless someone can provide a citation that isn't an unsourced wikipedia article. DMorpheus 16:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

well mr DMorpheus i have proof of the Jagdtiger super heavyness ,Tank of World war 2 by Chris ellis page:137 says that the Jagdtiger was the heaviest AFV in ww2, theres the citation The Lord_viruscide 02:33, 21 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lord viruscide (talk • contribs)

Can you quote your source? No one has claimed the Jagdtiger isn't the heaviest AFV of WW2. That's not the dispute. The issue is: is it a "super-heavy" AFV by any published standard? Your source doesn't even claim that. I will revert to the fact tag until you can show a published source defining super-heavy AFVs in a way that includes the jagdtiger and excludes every other WW2 AFV used in combat - because *that* is what your edit says. DMorpheus 12:26, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I concur with Dmorpheus, the onus is to define the "super-heavy" status without including the Tiger II which is but a couple of tonnes lighter.GraemeLeggett 14:16, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I note also that the super-heavy tank article contradicts saying that no super-heavy vehicle saw combat.GraemeLeggett 14:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

You're quite right. Currently most of the super-heavy AFV article is OR. Certainly the one source cited in that article, Zaloga, cannot back up most of the article. His book, cited in the super-heavy article, is concerned solely with Soviet AFVs. Most of the article is about German designs. Unless I am mistaken the Ellis book also makes no claim about a 'super heavy' designation that must kick in around 70 tons or so. DMorpheus 15:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)