Talk:Jaffna kingdom

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Jaffna kingdom has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.

February 19, 2008

Good article nominee

Listed

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[edit] Hoax tag

Please state why this qualifies as a hoax or is this an attempt to hoax the wikipedia community ? RaveenS 17:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Some references if people want to improve this article

Modern references

De Silva K M, A History of Srilanka, UK 1981., [2] The Mahavamsa. Geiger W 1912., [3] The Mahavamsa. Geiger W 1912., [4] Mudaliyar C Rasanayagam. Ancient Jaffna. New Delhi 1926, [5] Senaratne S P F. Prehistoric Archaeology in Ceylon. Colombo 1969., [6] De Silva K M, A History of Srilanka, UK 1981., [7] Chopra PN, Ravindran TK, Subrahmanian N. History of South India - Vol 1- Ancient Period. New Delhi 1979., [8] De Silva K M, A History of Srilanka, UK 1981.. [9] Chopra PN, Ravindran TK, Subrahmanian N. History of South India - Vol 1- Ancient Period. New Delhi 1979., [10] De Silva K M, A History of Srilanka, UK 1981., [11] Mudaliyar C Rasanayagam. History of Jaffna. New Delhi 1933., [12] Chopra PN, Ravindran TK, Subrahmanian N. History of South India - Vol 1- Ancient Period. New Delhi 1979., [13] De Silva K M, A History of Srilanka, UK 1981., [14] De Silva K M, A History of Srilanka, UK 1981., See Rasanayaga Mudaliar History of Ancient Jaffna, Chap. VII; Paranavitharana, article on the Ariya Chakravarti Kingdom in North Ceylon, Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, Ceylon Branch (New Series), Vol. VII (1961), p. 119; Natesan, “Early Kingdoms in Jaffna", Parameswara College Magazine; Nilakanta Sastri, History of South India, 3rd ed., p. 216.,

Medieval references

17.Segarajasingham (Astrological work) Sirappurayam, verse 11., 18. Arasakesary of Nallur, Raguvamsa Padalam (ed. Ponnambalampiliai), v. 223., 19.Segarajasingham (Astrological work), v. 5; p. 40., 20. Segarajasegaramalai, Satasatram No.8; Bell’s Kegalle Inscription No. 6; “lbn Battuta’s Travels “, Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, Ceylon Branch, Extra No. 39 (1882). See also Dr S. C. Paul, “The Overlordship of Ceylon during the thirteenth, fourteenth and fifteenth Centuries “, Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society. Ceylon Branch, Vol. XXVIII, p. 83.21. Segarajasegara Malai p. 40, v. 5., 22.He honoured Tamil poets and gave them gold; see Tamizh naavalar carithai, v. 243., 23. Dakshina Sirrappurayam; Kailasa Puranam by Pandita Rajah (ed. P.P. Vaitilingam Desigar). 24.Dakshina Kailasa Puranam, 25. “Ibn Battuta’s Travels “, J. R. A. S., Ceylon Branch, Extra No. 39 (1882); Travels of Ibn Battuta, trans. Samuel Lee, pp. 183f.

[edit] Complete rewrite

Those who find reputable sources please post them here. A good example fo follow would be Gangas. Well done by Dinesh RaveenS 23:47, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Old manuscrits and their translations

Yalpana vaipava malai

well the reliability of this source is some what disputed by historians..This may be good to quote era after 15 th century,esp after the arrival of western colonial powers to SL..But the history before that is very specious and sounds like more myth than real

Mahavamsa

[1]

says nothing about the Jaffna kingdom

[edit] Treaties and travelogues

Ibn Batuta's travelogue

[2]

[edit] Recent history books

Sri Lanka by Peter R Blood, Chapter Historical setting
Sri Lanka by Comptons by Brtanica
Hutchinsons chronolgy of world history (2005)

[3][4][5][6]

[edit] Recent journal articles

Vijayan colonization and archeology of identity in Sri Lanka, in journal Antiquity 09-01-2000, by Robin Connigham et al

[edit] Java

This article contains Category:History of Java, but this relevance is not evident based on a quick skim of the article. Any ideas why it is categorised as such? regards --Merbabu 06:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this should be part of Javas.A major city in the Jaffna is Chavakacheri. Chavakar... means Javas. And Cheri ... means A village inhavited by one cast of people

There were definitely Javas living in Jaffna Kingdom. This is an excerpt from the History of the Kingdom of Jaffna by C. Brito

In the reign of Vijaya Bahu (the usurper) there was a numerous army of Yavakar in the king's pay. Their numbers underwent constant diminution by deadly feuds among themselves and by the oppression of kings. The remnants of them inhavited the villages of Sava-kach-cheri and Savang-kodu But Sangkili drove them also out of his kingdom.

There you go :) Sapient26 02:55, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

He was an unsurper who was one of the many kings of the Kingdom some unrelated to each other. Further he was a Malay not a Javanese but we Sri Lankans call all South Esat Asians Javakas because that's what the classical Indians said. We call Arabs, Sonakas because we confused them with Ionian Greeks from Asia Minor. We call all Europeans Parangis becuase we confuse them with Franks. Anyway this does not belong in Java but as see also in the Tambralinga kingdom that I have already doneTaprobanus 05:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gunasingam

Who is this person ?? never heard of his works !! IF you quoting from him, please let us know why we should take him seriously. After all, he seems to maker rather fairly tale claims, as in the first paragraph of the article. Sri Lanka do have some great historians who have done a lot of historical works.We have worlds oldest chronicles back up by thousands of inscriptions. Why don't you show us inscriptions issued by jaffna kings ?? This might be a sound proof.Iwazaki ^{会話。討論} 17:02, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard of this guy either, and doubt his books can be classified as reliable sources. Also, exceptional claims require exceptional sources. 28 hits on Google say to me that he is neither widely recognized nor an expert on the subject. --snowolfD4 ^{( talk / @ )} 03:25, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard does not satisfy any Wikipedia rules. Sri Lankan Tamil Nationalism:A Study of its origin by Murugar Gunasingam is a PhD Thesis awarded by the University of Sydney that was published as a book in 1999. It is reliable source by any standards and dont try to remove it without getting the Wikipedia community to agree to it. If you guys disagree then you know where to take it to. There is a Reliable sources board that people will be able to explain the difference between reliable, notable and biased that most people seem to get confused sometimes deliberately.

About exceptioanl claims, it is not an exceptional claim. It is just a claim. All what it says is that there are people who belive in such a scenario and I dont have to prove anything except the get some citations for it. But fortunately I have more than one citation for this:) Taprobanus 04:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] K.M. De Silva's A History of Sri Lanka

The book A History of Sri Lanka by K. M. de Silva is widely used to cite this article. I have the book, and the said page numbers do not correspond to the citations. For example "p91-92" is used to cite 3 sections of text

But what most historians agree about the history of what eventually became the Kingdom of Aryacakravarti began with the devastating invasion of an previously unknown Chieftain called Magha (1215 - 55), from Kalinga in India.
He deposed the ruling king Parakrama Pandu and began a process of destruction with the help of his soldiers and mercenaries from Kalinga, Kerala and Damila regions in India.
After the devastation of Rajarata he moved his capital to the Jaffna Peninsula and ruled as a tribute paying client of the Chola empire in India. During this period, in 1247, Sri Lanka suffered its only invasion ever from South East Asia. A Malay chieftain and a sea pirate named Chandrabhanu from Tambralinga invaded the politically fragmented island. Although one Parakramabahu II (1236-70) from Dambadeniya was able to defeat him, Chandrabhanu moved north and secured the throne for himself around 1255. This prompted the Pandya's to intervene on behalf of the Sinhalese king from Dambadeniya. They forced Chandrbhanu to submit to Pandya rule in 1258. When Chandrabhanu embarked on a second invasion of the south, the Pandyas again came to the support of the Sinhalese king and killed Chandrabhanu in 1262. They eventually installed one of their ministers in charge of the invasion, one Aryacakravarti as the King. When Pandyan Empire in India became weak due to Muslim invasions, successive Aryacakravarti rulers made the Jaffna Kingdom independent and a regional power to be recon with in Sri Lanka. It should be noted all subsequent Kings of Jaffna Kingdom claimed descent from ‘‘Magha’’ while maintaining their Pandyan progenitor’s family name."

p. 91 and 92 of my book, while covering the same period, does not mention the Kingdon of Aryacakravarti, Magha, Parakrama Panu or any of the other characters in the 3rd section. p.91 describes the arrival of Arabian traders to Sri Lanka and their absorbtion into society, their casts etc which is carried on to the next page. p.92 has the heading a little way down, "Religion and Culture", and starts off descibing the culture during Vikramabahu and Parakramabahu's time, going on to Buddhism and it's relations with Mahayana and Hindu deities. (Given the "omg your a damn liar" claims that usually follow such comments, I can scan the page and email it to anyone who wishes)

It appears the two editions of the book are different, I have the 1981 University of California Press version and that mentioned in the article is from 2005. I would guess the two editions changed stuff like text size, moving about the page numbers. But just in order to verify that, will the editors who believe the citations are accurate please mention the section the above material comes from? For example the content above from page 92 on my book comes under

Part II: The decline of the Sinahalese Kingdom -> The fragmentation of the Sri Lankan polity from c. 1250 to the end of the fifteenth century -> Religion and Culture

which is immediately after the "Aspects of economic and social change" section. --snowolfD4 ^{( talk / @ )} 04:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

2005 edition Polonnaruva Kingdom:Foreign Relations: South East Asia 91, 92.. there is an entire section on Jaffna kingdom called Th periphery stakes claim chapter 8, page 128... that I will be using extensively on the other articles. Taprobanus 04:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion at WT:SLR

There is an ongoing discussion regarding this article at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sri Lanka Reconciliation#Jaffna Kingdom article conflict; interested editors are invited to share their thoughts. – Black Falcon ^(Talk) 02:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My comments

I will go through this article and see how I can help, though it will be limited to format, presentation, cpedits. I have consolidated the history section. There are some improvements that could be made right away, to be inline with other history related articles.

1. Let the territorial map of the kingdom show in the "former country box"
  Y Done
2. There is special provision for the kingdoms flag in this box.
  Y Done
3. All images should be at normal magnification. Currently they are pinched.Y Done
4. Try to create subarticles for red-links, or dont link them untill you have the subarticles ready.
  Y Done
5. The map currently shows "Pandyan tribute paying areas". But we need a map of the Jaffna kingdom. Please have this drawn.Y Done
6. In the Kings box, try to avoid "epithets" for kings names or second names they were known by. It makes the box crammed up for space and lengthens it. Use the most popular name and mention (in brackets) the other name in the history section in prose format.Y Done
7. It is important to cite often, instead of at the end of a large paragraph, such as in the "Literature" section, even if all the info was obtained from a single page in the source book. Also, writing a few lines explaining the content of few classics adds depth to the section.Y Done
8. Its generally important to minimize number of choppy sentences (sentences with < 10-15 words)while it is also good not to have very lengthy sentences (sentences with over 40-50 words). So far I have seen many of the choppy kind.Y Done
9. inline citations should be seperated from next sentence by a character space. Thought I noticed a few that violated this. Unless absolutely necessary, avoid citations in the middle of a sentence. If you cant avoid it, a comma helps.Y Done
10. I dont understand this paragraph. He helped the re-founding of the Kandyan kingdom under Kings Vimaladharmasuriya I and Senarat during the period 1593-1635 with the intent of securing help from South India to resist the Portuguese. He however remained independent (autonomous?) without provoking the Portuguese. What is a client? Do you mean trade partner? or a ally or a subordinate? If he was installed on the throne by the Portuguese, how was the king independent? I can see he trying to covertly align with the Kandyan kingdom and such, though. Also, when mentioning kings names, no need to add the era if it already exists in the kings table. When mentioning names of persons, no need to use the term "one so and so", just "so and so" will do.

I am using the terms from Tikiri Abeyasinghe's book. The citation says that EC was a client because he was installed by the Portuguese under stiffer tribute conditions. But then the Portuguese withdrew to Colombo.As far as Portuguese colonial documents were concerned the Kingdom was still independant but paying 12 elephants instead of the 10 elephants as tribute. The Kingdom was officially incorporated into the Portuguese Empire in 1621 (although they had military and political control from 1619) when the surviving son of EC in Goa signed off the Kingdom to the King of Portugal.

1. The sections Literature, Religion, Architecture and Society are rather skimpy. Please try to add one additional paragraph for depth. Doing...
2. For instance, in Religion, you dont have to only describe religion in the Jaffna area. You may discuss developments in rest of Sri Lanka and even Tamil Nadu region, if they had an influence on Jaffna kingdom.Y DoneDineshkannambadi (talk) 15:45, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
3. The society section should give description of life of women, sports, food habits and other recreational activities, dance etc for completeness.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 03:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)Y Done

Taprobanus (talk) 14:15, 22 December 2007 (UTC) Dineshkannambadi (talk) 03:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC) Dineshkannambadi (talk) 13:15, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Dineshkannambadi (talk) 02:26, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you ver much for your contributions. I will work on them Taprobanus (talk) 18:48, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

Move Jaffna Kingdom to Jaffna kingdom, as only proper nouns should be in Capital letters. See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Article_titles. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 09:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Requested an admin to move over redirect

Doing...

"Although the circumstances are unclear, by 1582 The Jaffna King" - punc and Capital letters in between. THe words "King" and "Kingdom" should begin with lowercase k as common nouns, throughout the article.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 10:04, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Done

"It should be noted that not all payments in kind were converted to cash, offerings of rice, bananas, milk, dried fish, game meat and curd persisted." It should be noted are Wikipedia:Words to avoid as gives undue importance to 1 fact. Rephrase. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 10:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Done

Link charm in Religion to proper article than disambig.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 10:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

DoneTaprobanus (talk) 22:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.

a (prose): b (MoS):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.

a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.

a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.

Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.

No edit wars etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:

Pass/Fail:

Also i suggest moving Image:Sangili2.JPG as the text is getting squeezed betn img and template.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 10:54, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

DoneTaprobanus (talk) 23:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

NOT DONE. The img is creating the same problem.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 05:55, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

GA Pass--Redtigerxyz (talk) 05:55, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Eventuallys

"Many of its kings confronted and eventually made peace with the Portuguese colonials. Eventually Cankili II, an usurper to the throne, confronted the Portuguese but was defeated, thus bringing the kingdom’s independent existence to an end in 1619."

There are a lot of "eventually"s in the second and third paragraphs. Excessive repitition of words can lead to loss of impactfulness, in terms of style, particularly when the words are very close together, as in the example above. Consider using a synonym, like "ultimately," or something else. Otherwise great. AaronCarson (talk) 20:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Done Thanks Taprobanus (talk) 23:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)