Talk:Jacques Brel

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Contents 1 La quête 2 biography 3 About the Dutch 4 "My Death" and other Doc Shuman interpretations. 5 Translations 6 Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living in Paris 6.1 ======================================================================================================= 7 COMMENT ON THE ARTICLE 8 I Just wanted to say...

[edit] La quête

Brel did not compose the music nor write the lyrics for La quête as the page previouslly stated- this was a translation of the Broadway song "The Impossible Dream" from the musical "The Man of La Mancha" (lyrics by Joe Darion, music by Mitch Leigh) I have removed it as an example of Brel's skills with musical composition.

Yikes! It really said he wrote *that*? Well spotted! -Tony Sidaway|Talk 17:45, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think we could still say that the French lyrics were 'written' by Brel though based on Darion's original. I looked at the two side by side and it is a very loose translation. Anyhow, there's a page here Homme de la Mancha which has Brel down as the composer for the songs. I'll go and put that straight. Mattley 18:09, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] biography

Anyone want to add something to his biography *before* moving to Paris?

Added the most relevant facts. I'll leave it to someone with a better command of the English language to add more structure to the whole Biography bit. Bart van der Pligt 05:00, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be something about Brel living with a mistress in Polynesia as well? His surviving daughters are using their legal control of his official biography to keep the lid on that rather well-known fact, but I think it should be on Wikipedia. I'm not bold enough to start writing about it though :) 134.58.253.57 12:37, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

• I think that it certainly deserves discussion; Polynesia was important enough to him that he had himself buried there. Heather 22:24, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About the Dutch

There's a big mistake in the article, no difference made between flemish people and flamingants, "His attitude towards the Flemish seemed contradictory" not contrdictory at all, he always declared being proud of being belgian , french and flemish, thats why he sang in dutch a bit, but flamingants are not just every flemish people, (here 's the big mistake) they are flemish people who hate's the french speaking they are nationalistic and whant's to seperate belgium in two, you can understand that for a real belgian as Brel those people where not appreciable please modify!

The section you refer to is about the song Les Flamandes. That song isn't about flamingants. I guess it's not about 'the' Flemish either but since Brel did call it les Flamandes (='Flemish women') and since it was one of his early successes it was the cause of lasting confusion about his attitude towards the Flemish. That's why it says: "His attitude towards the Flemish seemed contradictory".

The article continues: "Later in his career he directed his anger at the Flamingants." That shows that a difference is being made between Flemish and flamingants, doesn't it?

Another clear distinction: Les Flamandes is described as "mockery"; the anti-flamingant songs are described as an expression of "anger".

Maybe the article can be more clear about this but I don't believe it contains a "big mistake".

Bart van der Pligt 04:11, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

As though this situation needed to become any more confusing, there is a different song called Les F... which Brel introduces as "Les Flamingants" on the album Les Marquises. It is a very different song than Les Flamandes, being much later (1977). "Anger" would, I think, accurately describe the emotion expressed in that song. Heather 21:45, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "My Death" and other Doc Shuman interpretations.

I am loathe to unbalance an article regarding a Belgium singer/songwriter (and poet) but I feel the English version should better detail the great influence Brel continues to have on British "popular" music. Many of Brels themes and points of view has entered the lexicon of popular music, generally via cover songs using Doc Shumans interpretations of Brels lyrics. Scott Walker is one of the most prolific coverers of Brel songs, so much so that there has been a compilation album released which is solely of Brel songs. Even more famously David Bowie performs "My Death" at the conclusion of the film Ziggy Stardust:The Motion Picture. The Sensational Alex Harvey Band, a 1970's theatrical/hard rock band, recorded a version of Next which was very popular on stage. Of the other British bands and artists given as performing Brel material, it is likely that they would have heard them first by the above three (and especially Walker).

My point is that I believe that the English language edition of Wikipedia should have a section dealing with the English translations of Brels songs, noting who covered what and what the original titles were. Like many English speakers I have little or no knowledge of other languages, and I was not able to discern any of my favourite Brel songs from the titles as given in the text (especially those where Shuman retitled the composition to better reflect an Anglicized take on the subject.) I feel that this would allow somebody searching for Brel songs in their English incarnation to more easily find this excellent article. As mentioned my own language skills are too poor for me to do, but I would implore any bilingual editor (with knowledge of Brels' songs in both the original and English varieties - must be hundreds!) to do so.LessHeard vanU 20:42, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Why would it take a bilingual author? I guess the Brits and Americans know best what songs were influential in English (My guess would be: if you go away, seasons in the sun and, perhaps first and foremost, the 'jb is alive and well' musical)

Maybe the list of cover versions on the dutch wikipedia can be of help? Bart van der Pligt 04:19, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Quite. I would suggest that it is "Amsterdam", "My Death", "Jackie", "Next" plus the others you mentioned. When I have time I will look at the link you suggested.LessHeard vanU 12:40, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translations

Can we get 3rd party sourced opinions of translations of his work? Comments like Rod McKuen’s insipid English translation have no place on WP unless attributed to a notable critic. Ashmoo 05:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• I concur; statements like "English translations... often strip them of their brilliance and magical lyricism" have no part on Wikipedia. (The parenthetical counterpoint hardly mitigates the biased generalization.) But a more precise critique with a citation would be welcome. --Trevor Burnham 07:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living in Paris

I have been trying for several weeks, to find a recording of the soundtrack from Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living in Paris - and whilst I am able to find very many copies of this they sound nothing like the copy I grew up listening to.

The LP I remember listening to in the late 70's early 80's was comprised of the songs predominatly featured in this musical but with one difference - they were performed by a woman with a deep, sensuous jazz club voice - deep, husky, laid back - you know the sound I am talking about!! For some reason I have the name Edith Piaff in my head and can't help thinking that the title was something like - "Edith Piaff Sings Jaques Brel is Alive and Well.. etc". I was just a kid at the time so my recollection is poor to say the least, none of my family have been able to assist, the LP is of course lost forever....

Please guys and gals - any assistance would be great!! And any suggestions of where else to look would also be appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to consider my email. Best regards Mithril

[edit] =======================================================================================================

Piaf was dead by the time of the show. Try Elly Stone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Brel_is_Alive_and_Well_and_Living_in_Paris

[edit] COMMENT ON THE ARTICLE

Eric Blau's wife, the singer Elly Stone, was involved with the first staging and I suppose recording of "JB is alive and well and living in Paris". She was performing Brel songs in the early sixties. Blau helped in the Mort Shuman translations and original mounting and staging of the show. She looked like a NY version of Piaf.

Generally, this article, while respectful and consistent in tone, lacks something of the brilliance, genius and impact of Jacques Brel. We must understand this guy makes Bob Dylan look like a minor troubador.

I'll look at it carefully over time.

Cheers Andrew Hanos210.11.113.219 04:44, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I fully agree with this. Not that i don't like good old Bob, but Brel was in a category of his own. I have already tried to make the distinction between "les Flamands" or "les flamandes"(which are respectively the male and female form), and "les Flamingants",who are the nationalists. As brel was very subtle with words, this distinction is vital to understand his ambivalence. Apart from that, Brel would sometimes use a "loving harshness" as a way to express himself. "les vieux" is a a good example of this, as it paints a harsh picture of the elderly, but yet it is loving and endearing.

Why are people always trying to compare Brel with Piaf? They have very little in common, other than both singing in French (not that Brel always did that, naturally). The comparison of Stone to Piaf also seems strange to me--she didn't look or sound anything like her. BTW, (FWIW) "New York Edith Piaf" is dangerously close to "Brooklyn Edith Piaf", a title held by Melanie last I checked. LOL. Heather 22:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I Just wanted to say...

Great article and great page about someone I didn't know about 5 weeks ago...I learned about Jacques Brel on YouTube and found this article. Great work Wikians!