Talk:J. M. Barrie

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[edit] "at the Internet Movie Database"

The sentence "The BBC made an award-winning miniseries by Andrew Birkin, The Lost Boys at the Internet Movie Database. . ." seem awkwardly worded.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.206.117.246 (talk • contribs) 06:30, 12 December 2006

The reason is that the IMDB Title template was used, which appends some text which may not be relevant to the context. I've replaced the IMDB link with a wikilink which I found on the disambiguation page for The Lost Boys.
— Asch jr. talk to me 11:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death of David Barrie?

I believe Barrie's brother David died while young and may have been part of the inspration for Peter. Will verify this and if true add it. Any comments anyone ? Julianp 01:17, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

David Barrie died in January 1867, and he was the third brother, therefore probably <5 years old (and certainly <7). I think the inspiration part is speculative. - Nunh-huh 01:21, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for that. I know of one commentator who stated that Barrie's mother had once said that David would remain "forever young". If true that would indeed suggest a clear inspiration for Peter. Any info on that one? Julianp 01:37, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
Drat, now you've made me do research and I have to retract David's age at death, as he was an older brother: killed in a skating accident aged 13. Here's what Andrew Birkin says in J.M. Barrie and the Lost Boys: "Barrie was too young to remember the tragedy with any clarity, his chief memory being that of playing with his younger sister Maggie under the table on which stood David's coffin. For his mother, however, it was a catastrophe beyond belief, and one from which she never fully recovered"..."If Margaret Ogilvy drew a measure of comfort from the notion that David, in dying a boy, would remain a boy for ever, Barrie drew inspiration." So you can safely ascribe the contention that David was an inspiration for Peter to Birkin. - Nunh-huh
Nice one. My pathetic excuse for not checking it myself is that I have to do some work now and again !!
Why no mention of Psychogenic_dwarfism? He is mentioned there and on other sites http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro01/web3/Munoz.html, http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~ogilvie/margaret.html) as a psychogenic dwarf, but is this confirmed somewhere?
Pictures of him imply he was not a dwarf or even remarkably short: http://www.angus.gov.uk/history/features/images/Barrie-350W.jpg This picture shows him alongside H. G. Wells who, also, wasn't a dwarf: http://www.voting.ukscientists.com/welsbari.jpg Pictures of him on http://www.jmbarrie.co.uk also show him as being noticably taller than the women and children around him. CaerieD 19:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] milk and cookies

... Barrie stated that they would tell stories, have warm milk and cookies, and that it is was very charming.

I doubt that he would have used THOSE words.... "milk and cookies" is very much an American expression. IVoteTurkey 01:25, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I think the "milk and cookies" and "charming" addition at the end of the Barrie article are in reference to the statement Michael Jackson made about why he likes being around children. I guess someone just couldn't resist making a comparison.

[edit] Inspiration for Peter Pan

an excellent article by Anthony Lane on J.M. Barrie and the inspiration for the creation of Peter Pan appears in the November 22, 2004 issue of The New Yorker Magazine (a link to this article was added to "external links" section January 21, 2005) (contributor Khyber453@comcast.net) this change is a response to a request in the "Talk" section of Wikipedia for information about Barrie family history.

[edit] accusations of pedophilia

I am a bit disappointed that the article practically opens with an excuse (about his NOT being a pdeophile). As the French well know, qui s'excuse s'accuse, and Barrie needs no apologists, he seems to have handled himself with great dignity. That does not mean that he did not love his boys deeply, or that he did not enjoy their physical beauty. But no mention of that anywhere. He may have been short, but it is us who are the dwarves. Haiduc 03:32, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I have just watched the film with K.Winslet and J.Depp, and have been very surprised instead, to discover here that J. M. Barrie falsefied the will of Sylvia Llewelyn Davies in order to become one of the tutors of the kids. To me, this is a clear sign that the mother did not trust him and opens the path to innuendos about pedophilia. I'd like the reference to this fact to be clearer --S vecchiato (talk) 10:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how JMB's action says anything about Sylvia's opinion of him. For years she clearly had trusted him with the boys, and the fact that she named him as co-guardian (along with their uncles and her mother) supports that. She also expressed the hope that the boys would look to him as a father figure. JMB inserting himself into that section is hard to explain (the names look a lot alike and I think he - perhaps wishfully - misread her handwriting), but ultimately it's beside the point, because he was already intimately involved in their lives... with Sylvia's approval. I've updated the text to make this more clear. - JasonAQuest (talk) 15:38, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you JasonAQuest. I was curious. You have acces to Barkin's book maybe? --S vecchiato (talk) 16:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I have Andrew Birkin's book. - JasonAQuest (talk) 18:16, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] spelling of Llewellyn-Davies

In the opening para, Llewellyn has 2 sets of double els, but later on it has only one such set. I don't know which version is correct. Can anybody assist? JackofOz 05:58, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thrums

His first two novels were set in Kirriemuir, disguised as "Thrums" (his father was a weaver).

What does Thrums mean, and what is the connection with weaving? Ubermonkey 13:28, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I sometimes wonder why Anthony Powell put Barrie, and H.G. Wells in with the fictional writer St.John Clarke in his novel "The Acceptance World". (the three of them are in an old photograph, then they are discussed a bit). I suppose no one knows, but Powell introduced nearly every element for a reason Seminumerical 10:57, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Psychogenic dwarfism

The page for this condition mentions JM Barrie as a sufferer - this is a very serious condition usually found in feral children. Can anybody tell us whether he suffered the condition or something similar, and if so why ? thanks WinstonBerni 23:39, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, the article says he "never reached puberty". However both illustrations of him show him wearing a mustache. Can this be explained? -- The Photon 01:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Not only does he have a moustache in every photo I've seen, he has an adult jawline. His face is not at all child-like. The page on psychogenic dwarfism says "regular growth will resume when the source of stress is removed."
Is there any evidence that he "never reached puberty"?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.171.225.175 (talk • contribs) 04:37, September 10, 2006
Robert Sapolsky's Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers(3rd edition, 2004)) cites a discussion of Barrie's condition in Martin J. & Reichlin S.'s Clinical Neuroendocrinology (1st edition 1977) which says that Barries stopped growing as a child and that his marriage was never consummated (and grew to be obsessed with his mother and young boys). You can search inside Sapolsky's book at Amazon. Search for "Barrie" and look at p105-106 and also the notes in the "back matter" section. This doesn't say anything specifically about puberty though, so perhaps the wording in this article should be changed to reflect these references Bwithh 14:19, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

If Barrie 'never reached puberty' - how come he had a moustache, and quite a full one? A false one? Hardly. Delayed maybe, but never? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.143.8.122 (talk • contribs) 22:34, October 17, 2006

I removed the bit about him never having reached puberty--the source was a college student's paper, which itself linked to a websource that is no longer available. Katr67 19:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I think the psychogenic dwarfism is a cute allusion to Peter Pan at best. In the pictures at http://www.jmbarrie.co.uk he's shown with his mother and the Llewelyn-Davies children, including one of him and Michael, when Michael was twenty (http://www.jmbarrie.co.uk/images/scans/1920-04-11-PX677-JMB-MLD.620.jpg). He's clearly of normal height. CaerieD 19:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the claim about Barrie suffering from Psychogenic Dwarfism. As CaerieD explains above, he seems to have been of average height for his own family if not the general population. The only source for the claim was an undergraduate class paper. If it's true, we should be able to do better than that. Please do not re-insert the claim about Psychogenic Dwarfism unless you have a proper source for it. CKarnstein 21:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Another reference to his height and facial hair-- Uncle John's Absolutely Absorbing Bathroom Reader has an article titled "The Dark Side of Peter Pan," which states that after the death of Barrie's brother, he tried to comfort his mother by "imitating David's mannerisms and mimicking his speech. This bizarre charade went on for years...and only got weirder: when James reached 13, the age at wihich David had died, he literally stopped growing. He never stood taller than 5', and didn't shave until he was 24. He always had a thin, high-pitched voice" (p. 507).

This would explain the thirty-something moustache, and also the dwarfism references. I won't correct anything, but that's another, more trustworthy reference in regards to this issue. Diimmortales 01:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Footnote reference link for psychogenic dwarfism

whats wrong with it?? why wont it work properly??!?!!? someone fix it!!??! urhghgughuhguurgh!!!! Bwithh 19:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jack?

The article reads "after meeting George and Jack", but Jack is not mentioned earlier as one of the boys. Can someone please clarify? --1000Faces 07:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Jack was the more commonly used nickname for John, was the second eldest of the boys. --woggly 12:50, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] barrie and his mother

The reference to Barrie's mother on this page doesn't tally with the description in the Article from the new yorker; http://www.newyorker.com/critics/atlarge/articles/041122crat_atlarge?041122crat_atlarge

The room was dark, and when I heard the door shut and no sound come from the bed I was afraid, and I stood still. I suppose I was breathing hard, or perhaps I was crying, for after a time I heard a listless voice that had never been listless before say, “Is that you?” I think the tone hurt me, for I made no answer, and then the voice said more anxiously “Is that you?” again. I thought it was the dead boy she was speaking to, and I said in a little lonely voice, “No, it’s no’ him, it’s just me.” Then I heard a cry, and my mother turned in bed, and though it was dark I knew that she was holding out her arms.

This sounds quite different, and implies she loved him for himself; that he was the one who felt she would prefer his brother. Should the wiki article be corrected? I don't know the sources well enough myself. JClare 22:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Acquaintances

I seriously doubt whether Barrie met either Robert Louis Stevenson or Arthur Conan Doyle at Edinburgh University. Sure he corresponded with Stevenson, but as far as I know they never actually met in person. Given that Stevenson was ten years his senior, doesn't make sense that they would have met as students. I believe he met Conan Doyle in London. The two were indeed friends, and even collaborated on a flop musical. All in all the section about his acquaintances is sorely lacking: Barrie basically knew everyone who was anyone back in his day. --woggly 12:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John Lennon song Beautiful Boy

The line Life is what happens to you, while you're busy making other plans. Is this a Barrie quote? GoodDay 23:32, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Needed?

Wondering if anyone agreed with this...Quote under the Llewellyn-Davies section states "Following Sylvia's death a few years later, Barrie claimed that they had been engaged to be married." In none of my research, have I ever heard this claim. Does anyone have a citation for this? I assumed it was a well-known fact that the feelings Barrie had towards Sylvia were purely platonic.--sidahboo 08:04, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

It's brought up on page 191 of J.M.Barrie and the Lost Boys. Both Jack and Nico reported hearing the claim; Peter said it was wishful thinking on JMB's part. - JasonAQuest (talk) 18:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)