Talk:J. D. Salinger

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Good article J. D. Salinger has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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[edit] Public Domain - Not!

The links to stories allegedly in the public domain should be deleted. That is a Hungarian pirate site and the stories copied there are emphatically not in the public domain. 75.58.118.171 (talk) 17:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree. No way are those works PD in Hungary. I removed the external links unless someone can point to what exemption in Hungary law allows the work of a living person into the public domain. --JayHenry (talk) 01:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Review from Scartol

As promised, here is my review. I'm doing some copyediting as I read, but there are certain spots where I'm not sure how to adjust the writing.

Early life

  • During the second semester of the class, Burnett saw some degree of talent in the young author. This is pretty vague, but I'm not sure how to adjust it. Did he commend Salinger on his writing? Did he offer to provide more in-depth reviews? Did he urge him to publish? Etc. Y Done
  • Good, but there are two quotes in this section without clear attributions. Try: He acted in several plays and according to XXXX "showed an innate talent for drama",…. – Scartol • Tok 12:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • The bit about their estrangement needs a citation. Y Done
  • Nice. Much better. – Scartol • Tok 16:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

World War II


  • I'm not sure how to feel about the cruise ship bit. It's interesting, but it feels very much out of place in the WWII subsection. The previous paragraph dovetails nicely into the war, and the cruise ship info really breaks that up. Y Done; I moved it in between the Oona stuff and the first mention of WWII, where it ought to have been, anyway.
  • I know it gets tedious using "he" over and over again, but "the writer" is distracting and I've replaced it. (It's especially difficult later on, when discussing more than one writer.)
  • I've removed the phrase "according to Hemingway biographer Carlos Baker", because it didn't seem necessary. I added a citation to the quote it preceded. I reinserted the "according to"; I actually think it's crucial, because otherwise, readers may get the impression that what follows is a direct quote from Salinger's letter to Hemingway. It's not; Salinger won't allow any of his letters to be published, so Baker was forced to rephrase what he said. Whatever we know of the letter is, quite literally, according to Baker.
  • Then I don't know if a quote is appropriate here. The reader (at least this one) still assumes it's a direct quote from Salinger. I think unless we have such a direct quote, paraphrasing Baker's paraphrase is the way to go. – Scartol • Tok 12:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • He was also among the first soldiers to enter a liberated concentration camp. This sentence seems very significant and could use a bit more in it. Do any of the bios mention anything about what he said about it? Unfortunately, they don't; this revelation was presented for the first time by Margaret in her 2000 memoir, and no book-length biographies have been published in the intervening 7 years. To me, it is understandable that Salinger—already mum on so many other topics—would keep mum about this.
  • Alas. – Scartol • Tok 12:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Just a note for future reference: When writing about historians or biographers, it's good to use the literary present. To wit: "His biographers speculate…".

Post-war years

Release_and_influence_of_The_Catcher_in_the_Rye

  • I suggest shortening the subsection title to The Catcher in the Rye. Y Done
  • Uhh. Sparknotes as a reliable source? Isn't there a book analyzing Catcher which we could refer to instead? (As an English teacher I loathe SparkNotes.)
  • The quote referring to "immorality and perversion" (critical reception) is from Hamilton; is that his assessment? Or is he quoting another source? A casual reader will probably assume the former, so let's clarify. Y Done; The footnote now explains that the quote is taken from The Christian Science Monitor.
  • Good. Cheers. – Scartol • Tok 16:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • In the seventies, several U.S. high school teachers were "fired or forced to resign for having assigned" the book… Why is this part quoted? If it's not essential to preserve the original wording, it's better to rephrase it. Y Done
  • Looks good. – Scartol • Tok 16:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

That's it for now. It's a very good article, as I've said. More to come! – Scartol • Tok 01:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Writing in the fifties and move to Cornish

  • In July 1951, his friend and New Yorker editor William Maxwell in Book of the Month Club News asked Salinger about his literary influences. This is confusing. Did he pose the question in an article? Or was it part of an interview? If the latter, better to say: "In a July 1951 interview in Book of the Month Club News, Salinger's friend…". Y Done
  • I don't think entire sentences should be put in parentheses except in rare occasions. (It's distracting and usually unnecessary.) Y Done
  • …Salinger wrote friends of "something momentous [making] an appearance in his life." My feeling is that it's best to quote from a biographer only when it's absolutely necessary, and then it needs to be attributed in the sentence text. If it's anyone other than Salinger being quoted, best to indicate as much in the sentence. The same applies to "remarkably so for a volume of short stories". Y Done
  • I like the phrase "tightening his grip on publicity". Good call.
  • I'd like to know who said "in splendid prominence". Y Done; It was Hamilton, and didn't need to be quoted.

More to come! – Scartol • Tok 01:57, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Last_publications_and_relationship_with_Joyce_Maynard

  • I'm a fan of shorter section names and this one is a doozy. Maybe: "Last publications and Maynard relationship"? Y Done
  • The "Glass family series" reference is unclear to me. Did I miss something, or is this a reference without a clear antecedent? Y Done
  • Good. Very helpful. – Scartol • Tok 16:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • …he felt he could not stand the reality of children again (as opposed to the fantasy children in his writings). This is unclear. How about: "…(he preferred the fantasy children in his writing)."? Y Done; I looked up the source (added by someone else), and realized that all of the "fantasy children" stuff was an observation of Margaret's; Salinger actually told her he was "too old." I've replaced the whole phrase with that.
  • Nice job. Reads better. These other changes above all look good too. – Scartol • Tok 16:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Later_years_and_instances_of_exposure

  • Is "instances of" necessary in the title? Y Done
  • I moved it, but note that left-aligned images should go above sub-section headings. See WP:MOS#Images. Y Done
  • I think it's best to choose either "Margaret" or "Ms. Salinger" and then stick to it. Y Done

Two more sections. I'll finish those today, I expect. – Scartol • Tok 14:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Literary_style_and_themes

  • I don't know that we need to start fiddling with the larger structure at this time, but if/when you prepare this for FA (and I hope you will), you should separate style and themes into two different sections.

Influence

  • Who provides the quote: …were also affected by "Salinger's voice and comic timing."? I read it as a Roth quote. Let's clarify. Y Done
  • Good. – Scartol • Tok 16:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Finally: In the Bibliography section, I'd remove the Geocities links. I'd say they belong in the External Links section (if anywhere – many editors are uneasy about GC pages). Y Done; I've removed them from the bibliography, but kept a link to the site in External Links. It's one of the few Salinger web sites I know of that actually has content (it has all of his high school newspaper columns and several rare interviews, along with summaries of his unpublished stories.)

Thanks for bringing me in on this project – please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns. Good luck with it! – Scartol • Tok 15:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I have made some of your suggested changes (and addressed others), with more to come. Thanks! Hobbesy3 (talk) 12:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Further changes. Hobbesy3 (talk) 20:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe I have made or addressed all your suggested changes, except for one. You asked that I replace the two SparkNotes references, but the trouble is the passage for which they are the source:

“ The book is more notable for the persona and confessional voice of its first-person narrator, Holden. Holden serves as an insightful but unreliable narrator who expounds on the purity of childhood, the "phoniness" of adulthood, and his own alienation and loss of innocence. ”

These are such blanket, overarching observations about Holden and the nature of the novel that I'm having a hard time finding a reputable (and non-summary, non-encyclopedic) source that mentions all this in a way that can be sourced. Like, I'd probably be able to find these observations in a book about Catcher, but I'd have to read the whole book to get them all. Do you have any suggestions, or would you be willing to find a source? Thanks, Hobbesy3 (talk) 03:27, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll take a close look at the changes soon – probably this weekend, but I can't make any promises. Meantime, I've found a book (ISBN 0816188947) which should be of use. I'll probably be able to replace the SparkNotes stuff. – Scartol • Tok 03:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I know somebody with a copy of this. Might be able to cite these very broad (and not even particularly controversial, methinks) observations pretty quickly. --JayHenry (talk) 04:00, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Also, just for fun, I noticed the NY Times still has its initial reviews of Catcher up: Ah, the World's a Crumby Place and Books of the Times. Probably best to just include those as external links on Catcher though... --JayHenry (talk) 05:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
These repairs look fine indeed. I've gotten some books on Salinger and I'm going to go through (hopefully today) and replace the SporkNotes references with books. Kudos for your hard work and keep me posted. – Scartol • Tok 16:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I've cleansed the piece by changing the SporkNotes stuff to a critical essay. I do believe I've done what I came here to do. Good luck with this (I can't imagine it won't pass GA this time), and do let me know if you have any other questions or concerns. – Scartol • Tok 17:10, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Excellent! Thanks, Hobbesy3 21:46, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Salinger studying education

Salinger seems to have been a disinterested student based on what Hamilton says, and what is on this page now suggests he had no intention of obtaining a degree. However, at least one source ( Donald M. Fiene: "A Bibliographical Study of J. D. Salinger: Life, Work, and Reputation," M.A. Thesis, University of Louisville, 1962)does say he considered studying special education--maybe to be a teacher eventually. Among other things referenced are the college transcipts. Seeing how Salinger's character's Buddy Glass and his brother Seymour were teachers (I think Zooey was encouraged by someone to be one too), and Holden visits two in the course of his journey in Catcher in the Rye, it doesn't seem unlikely this would be a field that interested him. Also, the possibility he did consider special education as a field is believable, especially after reading Elaine and Teddy. Anyway, I went back in and added this as a detail during his NYU days.

LewWasserman9 01:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I just have to add one tid bit...This is helpful I hope Another influenced by Salinger's style was Jack Kolinsky a teenage writer who recently won the Bishop prize (by recently I mean over fifteen years ago) I think this deserves an honorable mention...Hmm? Thoughts anyone. He can't be found on google interestingly enough... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.78.31.117 (talk) 01:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA pass

This is a very good article on Salinger. Here are my suggestions for improvement beyond GA:

  • There isn't a ton of scholarship written on Salinger's works, but there is some. It would be a good idea to use more of that to discuss his literary style and the themes of his works. Books such as The Catcher in the Rye: New Essays would be particularly helpful, I think. Biographers tend to use what is called "biographical criticism" (it is one way of interpreting literature) - we want to make sure we don't leave out the other interpretations of his work. I see the article has some critics from the 1960s as well, but all of this could be expanded using more research.
  • I would delete the infobox. Infoboxes are optional and the "influences" fields here are a bit out of control. Readers should be presented with that information in context, where it makes sense (I like the "Influences" section, by the way). A text-heavy box also detracts from the image.
  • He started his freshman year at New York University in 1936 (purported to have considered studying special education) but dropped out the following spring. - parenthetical is confusing
  • The two writers began corresponding; according to Hemingway biographer Carlos Baker, Salinger wrote Hemingway in July 1946 that their talks "had given him his only hopeful minutes of the entire war". - confusing - Baker's or Salinger's words?
  • Salinger had confided to several people that he felt Holden Caulfield deserved a novel - confusing - remind the reader that Salinger wrote about Holden before this time
  • There is some minor overlinking of obvious words like "sue" - see WP:MOS-L for advice on linking.

Overall, this is an excellent article and I have no doubt that it can become an FA with a bit more research and refinement. Awadewit | talk 01:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I've made the last three of your six suggested changes. Hobbesy3 (talk) 16:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)




 He brought her to the United States, but the marriage fell apart after eight months and Sylvia returned to Germany. ------please clairfy--Shawnlandden (talk) 08:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A break in reclusiveness

Given how infamous Salinger is for refusing to meet his fans, would it be worthwhile to mention the following event:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10841242

? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.89.173 (talk) 19:36, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] J.D.Salinger, Date of Photograph

The photograph of Salinger captioned "Salinger in 1953" is the same photograph that was printed on the back of the first edition of "Catcher in the Rye". It therefore dates back to at least July 1951. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.13.17.221 (talk) 10:14, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] JDS Early Life, Absurd ethnicity

"Jerome David Salinger was born in [[Manhattan, New York - he was half-Scottish and half-Irish.[1] His father, Sol Salinger, was a Jewish man of Polish origin who sold kosher cheese."

Hello, how on earth can JDS be half-Scottish and half-Irish and have a Jewish father of Polish descent?

Trefalcon (talk) 01:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The article had been vandalized so this didn't make any sense. It should have read that his mother was half-Scottish and half-Irish. I've fixed it so it's logical again. --JayHenry (talk) 02:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks --Trefalcon (talk) 01:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Colbert

Salinger has been mentioned on Colbert, he claiming that he will somehow get the recluse on his show. I suggest a vandelism lock in preemption.67.175.90.197 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I too vote for protection. ThreeOneFive (talk) 17:21, 1 May 2008 (UTC)