Talk:Jörg Haider

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[edit] 2002 elections

"In response [to the disastrous results in the 2002 elections], Haider stated that he had demanded that the leader of the FPÖ must step down to allow him to be leader, and on being refused, stated that he would leave politics permanently." (final sentence) --> As right now the situation keeps changing every single day, there is really no point whatsoever in trying to keep this bit up to date. So far, over the past few months, Haider has announced that he would leave politics altogether at least five times. However, despite the FPÖ's heavy losses, the current party chairman, Herbert Haupt, is determined to make Haider once again a member of the new Austrian parliament. In other words, even if Haider, of his own free will, resigned as Governor of Carinthia, this would just mean his switching from regional to federal politics. Keep the dustbin of history close by, but it's not quite over yet. KF 18:20 Nov 27, 2002 (UTC)
A quick update: Today, Haider confirmed his intention to remain Governor of Carinthia. It is still unclear what role he will play in federal politics in the future. Federal Chancellor Schüssel, the winner of the November 24, 2002 elections, will have to form a coalition government over the next few weeks, and talks with the Social Democrats (SPÖ), the Freedom Party and the Greens are already underway. No one, including political analysts, can predict the outcome of these talks. If Schüssel decides on the Freedom Party again, Haider may again have a say in federal politics, too. Recent opinion polls show, however, that this is considered the worst case scenario by the vast majority of Austrians. -- KF 18:57 Dec 1, 2002 (UTC)
Another update on Austrian politics, posted here due to its ephemeral nature: Federal Chancellor Wolfgang Schüssel (ÖVP) has been negotiating with the other three political parties for almost two and a half months now (while the old right-of-centre government headed by Schüssel is still in power) and has still not decided with which of them he would like to form a (necessary) coalition government. Today, both Schüssel and Alexander van der Bellen, the leader of the Green Party, announced that they would start Regierungsverhandlungen (talks to form a coalition government) tomorrow. This would not only mean a complete renversement des alliances for the conservative Austrian People's Party but also a new and unique constellation in European politics.
Haider, still Governor of Carinthia, has been keeping a low profile ever since the disastrous November 2002 elections. This of course is partly due to the media dropping him and turning to more exciting subject matters. --KF 23:53 Feb 6, 2003 (UTC)
After negotiating all night, van der Bellen (Austrian Green Party) announced yesterday morning that his party would not be able to form a coalition government with Schüssel's Austrian People's Party (headlines: "Back to the start" etc.). In other words, the Freedom Party could again become Schüssel's partner.
Meanwhile, Haider himself refrains from commenting on this. Recently, he was ridiculed by some papers which reported that he had criticized, in a speech, the loss of a valuable painting from an art gallery without realizing that it had been borrowed to be put on the wall of his own office. --KF 11:46 Feb 17, 2003 (UTC)

It was announced a couple of days ago that Schüssel would again form a coalition government with the Austrian Freedom Party. Haider, who is not involved in the negotiations, told the press in an interview (in German) that Schüssel would have to pay dearly for all the humiliations the FPÖ has had to suffer. Haider also said that he was busy writing a book of revelation. KF 21:02 Feb 23, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] 2003 Governor of Carinthia

Over the past weeks, Haider, as Governor of Carinthia, has again and again been trying to antagonize the federal government and, by doing so, his own Austrian Freedom Party. For example, he heavily criticized the fact that, according to Austrian law, former cabinet ministers are entitled to draw their salary for up to one year after they have left the government and said that if the new government did not immediately stop that waste of public money he and his friends in Carinthia would form a separatist movement and secede from the FPÖ. There was even some vague talk of Carinthia separating from Austria, but no one takes him seriously any longer. --KF 13:39 Mar 18, 2003 (UTC)

Recently, especially after Saddam Hussein's arrest, Haider has severely criticized the United States for their intervention in Iraq. Haider himself had visited Saddam Hussein in February 2002.

Regional elections are due early in 2004 in Carinthia, and Haider and his party, the Austrian Freedom Party, would need the support of another political party for Haider to be re-elected Governor. However, at the end of December 2003 it seems no other party is prepared to support him. --KF 09:11, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Another update: Haider started his election campaign in Carinthia last weekend. It seems -- this is at least suggested by the Austrian Green Party -- that the Austrian People's Party is prepared to support Haider in Carinthia if Haider's Freedom Party refrains from nominating their own candidate for Federal President. If the Freedom Party did nominate someone, Benita Ferrero-Waldner would no doubt lose voters while Social Democrat Heinz Fischer would probably not be affected.
Meanwhile, a survey published by some Mediawatch institute showed that in 2003 Haider was (still) the person most often mentioned in Austria's mass media.
>KF< 20:21, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC) (wondering if these notes will ever become part of the main article)
Probably additional candidates wouldn't have any effect on the result of the presidental election because the winning candidate needs more 50% of the votes anyway. If none of the candidates gets more than 50% of the votes, there will be a new election with only the two most succesfull candidates. --Hokanomono 02:32, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] 2004 elections in Carinthia

Please note that the governor of Carinthia is not elected by the people but by the Landtag of Carinthia. The elections on March 7 2004 the FPÖ got 42.5% of the vote in Carinthia, which make Haider's reelection seem likely, but not sure. He will need the support of another party in the parliament. Before the election the ÖVP announced not to support Haider. --Hokanomono 18:50, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

But today they did. <KF> 17:44, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] POV?

I would like to get rid of the "neutrality" template that is currently in the article. It seems to me that the article is currently somewhat slanted against Haider (e.g. at the beginning "leader of the far right freedom party...his views are extreme right-wing" -- why the repetition?), but not very strongly.

  • His political views are widely viewed as extreme right-winged. -- removed. Anyway the previous sentence states that the FPÖ is right wing. (also, at least within Austria, he is more criticised for populism, opportunism, vanity, and leadership style than for pandering to old Nazis)
  • How exactly is the fact that Haider became wealthy when he inherited an estate bought from a fleeing Jew during World War II relevant for his role as a politician? I left the sentence there for the moment, waiting for opinions/comments.
  • Is it true that he made (publicly) derogatory comments about Muzikant "several times"? (I remember only "Dreck am Stecken".)
  • I removed On August 31, 2003 he announced that he would run again for Governor of Carinthia in 2004. This is true and NPOV, but outdated by the paragraph giving the results of the 2004 election.

I also reorganized the article into sections, and added a bit about Carinthia.

-- Austrian 01:20, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If someone like User:Old Right adds the "Neutrality is disputed" tag without bothering to comment on his reason or reasons for doing so (it explicitly says so on the template) it is justified to remove it again without giving it a second thought: We wouldn't even know where to look for POV.
About Haider's inheritance being relevant or irrelevant for his role as a politician: Who says an encyclopaedia article must only mention "relevant" facts? Apart from all sorts of trivia (have a look at actors' biographies), personal details (marriage, children, etc.) are interesting but certainly not "relevant" to a political career. I don't understand your argument. <KF> 20:31, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
  • I removed "enthusiastic" from "Jorg Haider's parents were enthusaiastic nazis..." I feel that their joining early and remaining members after the ANP was banned is saying enough - that their 'enthusiasm' is implicit. We can state the facts without spoonfeeding opinion. I also removed the neutrality warning because there is no clear reason why it's there. As well, I've edited for spelling and sentence structure.
  • So, what is "far right" anyways? His sly jibe about the central government not having an employment plan is actually implying that they're not enough to the left. If Haider is "far right", what is Hitler? Far, far, far right? Haider is a nationalist. He clearly thinks there is some sort of vital identity in the region of Carinthia and in the general region of Austria. As long as someone isn't calling for vigorous, governmentally-sponsored ethnic cleansing and a supra-national racialist identity movement it is silly to call them "far right". And, yes, I am supporting the notion that Le Pen, whom I abhor, is not "far right". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.92.252.4 (talk) 09:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
  • I will check back on this page in a few weeks and if no counter-argument is made then I will remove "far right" and replace it with "stridently rightwing". This gives it a more subjective feel as one could just as easily be "stridently centrist". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.92.252.4 (talk) 09:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Here is how the political simplified linear spectrum works: 1. By definition you have 50% of the voters on the left and 50% on the right side. 2. This means, if you have only two major parties which are about equally strong, you only have one left and one right-winged party - such as in the US. 3. In Austria there are more parties that are in parliament - currently 5 parties. Of those 5 parties, you have 3 right-winged parties and 2 left-winged parties. Of the 3 right-winged parties there are 2 who are radically different in their political concepts to the OeVP (e.g. the call to expell all immigrants, even if they are legally living in Austria; etc.) - therefore those parties are further to the right than the OeVP - which is normally labelled "far-right". Themanwithoutapast (talk) 20:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
  • By that definition a political "spectrum" (a dubious concept already) that contains a centrist party, a leftist party and a far leftist party would identify the centrist party as "rightwing" and the part of that party closest to the center as being far right. In some countries Bill Clinton would be "far right". How is that even intelligible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.92.252.4 (talk) 08:14, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anschluss picture

It seems to me that putting a picture pf German troups marching into Austria in 1938 is problematic in terms of NPOV, as it suggests a link between Haider and events that happened before his birth, or even that he may be a Nazi. In spite of his numerous controversial statements, this should be avoided. It would be better to put a picture of his parents there, or a picture of him as a youth. Martg76 22:08, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

In light of Haider's parents' Nazi past, I don't think it is NPOV. I just added some information, because obviously Jörg Haider is one of the "best-known" Austrian polticians outside of Austria - unfortunately... if you really think the pic is too POVed - please go ahead and remove it. In addition I would say we should add some more comprehensive infos on Haider's political views. Themanwithoutapast 14:17, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
I will not reprove the picture now since I don't have a better one. Eventually some pro-Haider or at least pro-Schüssel activist is bound to turn up. I have also made the regrettable experience that people from Argentina to Kazakhstan have heard of him, even if they know little else about Austria. The international perception is quite different from the Austrian one. Is he a Nazi? Almost certainly not. Is he an anti-semite? I don't think we can really say, in spite of the Muzikant statement. But this is what quite a lot of people think. Martg76 22:40, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
That Anschluss photo may have a place in a biography of Haider's parents or an article on the Anschluss itself, but is irrelevant here. My father was a protestant and I'm an atheist, should a picture of Martin luther nailing his statements to the church door be posted in my own biogpahy? I've removed it. NPOV shouldn't be violated simply for lack of a better photo. Reason. 8 October 2005

[edit] Far right extremist or populist?

This section is self-contradictory. It implies that a comparison to Belgium's extreme right Flemish Block is invalid because Haider enjoyed a large percentage of the vote, but ignores that fact that that same party has a following and percentage of the vote that is bigger than FPO's was at it's peak. In reality, populism and modern far right politics are essentially the same, and the section ehre trying to make it something different is just basically wrong on facts.

  • I have removed this section and placed instead a link to his current party's Wikipedia page, where the policies of this, his new party are clearly stated. It can be assumed that since he is at the helm of this party, and because it was founded by him (essentially) that these policies of the party and his own are one in the same. - Reason. 8 October 2005
    • His policies are clear? You must be joking. Martg76 08:38, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
      • Yes, the text I replaced it with was incomplete, due to my having had 2 editing windows open simultaneously. My apologies. I'll work something else out tonight and post that instead. Either way, the current section is nonsensical.
        • I think the current problem is that that section contains far too much interpretation. It seems like a position one might argue in a comparative politics class. 68.33.221.135 04:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

http://euronazi.blogspot.com/2006/08/joerg-haider.html --euroinfo 31.08.2006

[edit] Homosexual?

There have been unconfirmed rumours that he is a homosexual? can some one back this claim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.245.238 (talk) 04:50, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

This doesn't seem conclusive of anything and I don't read German. Seems conveniently smear-like but it's a crazy world.142.232.51.249 (talk) 22:44, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Far right extremist or populist?

Could someone work on this artice. It's all but NPOV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.121.77.45 (talk) 15:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

You have to specify what is NPOV, so people can work on it. Themanwithoutapast (talk) 20:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)