Talk:Józef Stawinoga
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This article was nominated for deletion on 30 October 2007. The result of the discussion was keep. |
Good faith prod placed on this article - fair enough, he's not amazingly famous outside Wolverhampton. However, there are several sources that are reliable and independent chronicling him, and the fact that his obituary made the front page in the biggest-selling regional evening newspaper in Britain asserts it per WP:N, I think! Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry 23:43, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
- When Midlands Today reported his death, they made a number of factual errors that call into question the source of the SS allegations. They said that the SS was a corps of the German army, but neither of these things are true (the SS was not a corps but rather a division of the Nazi party, and was independent of the army). They said that it was very rare for non-Germans to achieve "high" rank (Fred was said to be a staff-sergeant, not exactly a "high" rank), but the very opposite is true - the SS recruited hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans as the war progressed. Until the facts are out it seems very unfair to vilify the memory of a local icon, especially now that he is in no position to defend himself. TharkunColl 12:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
- Regardless of whether it's unfair, we should at least mention that there's been speculation. The most reliable source we've got mentions that he was involved in the war , most likely as a british fighter, however, if he was repatriated to England... Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry 16:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
- I should also add that the SS was a part of the German armed forces, so although it was separate to the Wehrmacht, it was still a part of the German land army. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry 19:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
- Regardless of whether it's unfair, we should at least mention that there's been speculation. The most reliable source we've got mentions that he was involved in the war , most likely as a british fighter, however, if he was repatriated to England... Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry 16:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Deletion
Mr. Stawinoga would qualify as a local celebrity, to be sure. However, when I lived in another location in England in the mid 1980's, I (and many others) was aware of his existence (though I didn't know his name). With this in mind, he seems at least to have some 'national' presence in Britain (and perhaps other countries). Does this not give him sufficient merit to be represented on Wikipedia? There are many quasi local celebrities already represented on Wikipedia (including local tv personalities, notable car dealers and the like). I don't see Mr. Stawinoga as being any less notable than these. Posthocergopropterhoc 18:22, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
- You might want to see the AfD, commenting here won't have any affect! Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry 19:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Leonowicz' claims
Should Leonowicz' claims be included in this article. According to the press reports Leonowicz was just repeating what he'd been told by others. This hardly meets the Wikipedia criteria for being a reliable source. The claims are also conflicting, Stawinoga was at various times in the SS and in the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers! Unknown Unknowns 14:58, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] First name
Is "Josef" actually the name that was used by him? There is Józef name in Polish, but not Josef, so maybe this should be corrected? Tigrisek (talk) 21:39, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
- Well, "Josef" is the spelling that's used in the references, so changing it would be speculating. It's possible that the spelling was at least partially anglicised when he moved to the UK. --RFBailey (talk) 22:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
- You're right, but it's quite possible that some journalist had written it as Josef since he didn't know how to spell it and then all the rest simply repeated it without verification (note that all the references are from media). If this is true (which is not that unlikely), then I think that this person's proper name should be mentioned. Tigrisek (talk) 18:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
