Talk:Józef Olszyna-Wilczyński
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An entry from Józef Olszyna-Wilczyński appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 19 January 2006. |
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[edit] Killed by Red Army, not NKVD
According to the sources I find - those with a more detailed description of his death - he was killed not by NKVD, but by a over-eager Red Army patrol, who shot him after some interrogation. One source has a peasant relation, to whom a drunk officer commanding the execution boasted how he will be rewareded for killing a Polish general...--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:36, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
- His wife's memoir makes it pretty uncertain as she describes the officer as wearing a NKVD cap, but calls them all just Soviets. Halibutt 11:45, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] POV as hell
At Portal:Russia/New_article_announcements#January_17-31.2C_2006, the article was described (guess by whom) as POV as hell... I wonder what is POV here. Halibutt 13:38, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
- Probably because it doesn't portray Soviets as Saints. Sigh. On the other hand, their activity is impressive: they get about as much new articles per day as we do per month... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:52, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Source
as the answer to recent execution of the Soviet soldiers of this division, surrendered in a captivity. Please provide reference for - I presume? - this Polish alleged war crime, and how it was linked to the murder of Wilczynski.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:55, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
- Source in the book M. Meltyukhov Soviet-Polish Wars, Moskow, Veche, 2001, p. 333-334. This book (in russian, sure) may be found at [1]. I can translate a fragment, if you need. Kmorozov 06:53, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Is the book serious? Xx236 13:08, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- The author uses inaccessible previously archive documents from the Soviet archives. This is serious and an only at the moment research in the Russian on this theme. See review at [2] Kmorozov 13:40, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
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- The book seems quite ok, I will read it as soon as I have time. However, the fragment about the murder of Olszyna-Wilczyński does not suggest that he was killed as a reprisal. Perhaps it was a revenge, but the author does not mention any coincidence between the fights that happened in the area and the death of Olszyna-Wilczyński. More or less (harsh translation), the part goes like this:
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- On September 21 the 21st Tank Brigade formed a detachment in Sokółka that was to proceed towards the area of Augustów-Suwałki, commanded by F.P. Chuvakin (...) Proceeding northwards on September 22, at approximately 5 o'clock near Sopoćkiny the detachment caught up with a Polish unit withdrawing from Grodno, which tried to reach the old forts of the Grodno fortress, where a munitions dump was located. In the fights that ensued and lasted until 10 o'clock, the Red Army sustained 11 killed and 14 wounded soldiers, 4 tanks and 5 cars were destroyed. The enemy often used Molotov cocktails, which made heavy damage to tanks deprived of infantry cover. During the battle one of the tanks lost its tracks and G.S. Satkovskiy, S.G. Shitalko and I.A. Shatko had to flee the machine, but were surrounded and shot to death. However, Satkovskiy was missed and, pretending to be dead, he managed to reach his lines. After the battle 60 Polish soldiers were taken captive, while the rest of the Poles withdrew to the forests.
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- Travelling with his family by car, Brigadier General Yu. Olshchina-Vilchinskiy (sic!) was trying to get to Lithuania when he was caught by Chuvakhin's detachment. Following the commander's orders, both the General and his adjutant were shot. General's wife was allowed to pass on to Lithuania. At 8 pm the detachment left Sopoćkiny and at 1 am the following day it reached the Augustów Canal. (...)
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- Not to mention that during war it was perfectly normal to shoot at tank crews. The edit in the article implied that the tank crew has been captured (became POWs) and then shot; but the book seems to indicate that the tank crew was shot in combat (probably during of after evacuation of the vehicle), and makes no assumption they even attempted to surrender before being killed.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:50, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
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One doesn't shot generals because some of his their soldiers are cruel.(This way we should kill all Soviet officers of WWII) There should be a trial. Xx236 09:46, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Half-way between history and propaganda - the title of the review. Xx236 10:48, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sopoćkiny
What language is it? Xx236 13:10, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Polish of course. It is just another version of the name of Sopoćkinie. It's a town some 30 km of Grodno, in modern Belarus. It is still mostly inhabitated by Poles and is probably the only place in the former USSR to have Polish street signs.. Halibutt 16:05, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Why to use "just another version of the name of Sopoćkinie"? Xx236 10:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- I used it because that's the version used by Wiczyński's widow. However, I already corrected that to the more common name, if you hadn't noticed. Halibutt 11:25, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
"his family" or wife only? Xx236 11:55, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
