Talk:Ivan Sarić

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[edit] Serb?

If we look at the five criteria (or pillars?) of Serbianism (1. Orthodoxism, 2. Cyrillic alphabet, 3.Celebration, 4.Gun, 5.Xenophobia) we immediatly see that Ivan Sarić wasn't Serb, only Bunjevac at best (Croatians claim Bunjevac Croat). He was born as Catholic, and his grave is in Catholic graveyard in Subotica. So tell me why is he Serb? Bendeguz 00:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I also suspected that he was Bunjevac (Ivan is rather Bunjevac than Serb name), so thank you for clarifying this. PANONIAN (talk) 00:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

P.S: Your "opinion" about Serbs keep for some nationalistic forum, ok? PANONIAN (talk) 00:39, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Gun? Xenophobia? Also, where's the source that claims him Bunyev? AFAIC, where's the source that claims him Serb at all? I'm thinking about removing any national point from the article, if neither is claimed. --PaxEquilibrium 23:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Since he was born in Subotica and since his grave is in Catholic graveyard, he cannot be anything else instead of Bunjevac. PANONIAN (talk) 23:49, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

That's a total besmislica. When you say that, you sound like a Bosniak claiming Selimović, or a Croat claiming Andrić. This really needs a source, however probable it is. Until then, we should either omit his ethnicity entirely, or note that it is unclear. --estavisti 02:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you think that any other Catholic South Slavs lived in Subotica? Well, no they do not (not even Šokci). Bunjevci were only Catholic South Slavs that lived in this city, so, as I said, I am 99.99% sure that he was Bunjevac. Of course, when I said that he was Bunjevac I do not speak about what he declared in census. Bunjevci might declare themselves in census as Croats, Serbs and Yugoslavs, but even if they do this they still consider themselves Bunjevci, so even if he declared himself as Serb or Croat, he still was an Bunjevac. We certainly will not make a mistake if we writte that he was Bunjevac. PANONIAN (talk) 03:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... no, but Estavisti is right. He simply cannot be anything unless we have a source that it claims as such. Logic doesn't help much in here. Iam removing any national designation until found. --PaxEquilibrium 17:39, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Croat

Here're the list of surnames from Ogorje and surroundings (in Croatia). [1]. Sarić's among them. Kamarad Walter 08:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "No national consciousness"

No Croat national consciousness among Bunjevci in 19th century? Do I have to explain the term Botmagyarok? Besides that one, there were other hungarization pressures. School in Croatian abolished etc.. The name of Croats was too provocative for Hungarian authorities (memories from 1848, Hungarian national movement, Cossuth's ideas) outside of Croatia (I'm speaking about the Hungarian-ruled part of Austria-Hungary); Bunjevci leaders concluded that it'd be resulting at even bigger pressure to use their Croat name, so they decided to "hide" behind more "neutral", more "innocent" name of Bunjevci (for some reason, local Bunjevci joined Hungarian cause, against the Serbs, although some Bunjevci leaders were against that). At the end, even the name Bunjevci was too provocating for Hungarian authorities, so the various institutions dropped the "Bunjevci, bunjevački" from their names, in order to function properly.
Then came Kingdom of Yugoslavia, and then the king imposed the policy of "one nation, three tribes"... Serb hegemonists didn't want to have 100 thousand Croats at the north of the country (there was a army intelligence report to king about that).
Then came WWII and Axis and proaxis coutntries with their minority "tolerance".
Socialist Tito's Yugoslavia began with good policy towards Croats from the north of Bačka (Bunjevci and Šokci). Later things changed (Croatian national theatre in Subotica abolished, various institutions of Croats in Vojvodina lost adjective "Croat" in their names...). However, Yugoslavia wasn't fabricating fake nations to decrease the number of Croats, but saw the reality that Bunjevci and Šokci are Croats, and showed them in statistics.
Ivan Sarić was among those Croats. Kamarad Walter 15:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)