Talk:Iván Navarro (artist)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move of a Iván Navarro (Chilean) to Iván Navarro (artist) and of Iván Navarro (Spaniard) to Iván Navarro (tennis player). - Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 20:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

• Suggestion 1 - Iván Navarro (Chilean) → Ivan Navarro — Revert an undiscussed, unreferenced move to a name contrary to that in the cited sources. Put back to the name by which he is known, for the only things for which he is notable. Redirect has history with disambiguation page, hatlines sufficient for only two. —Gene Nygaard (talk) 23:00, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

• Suggestion 2 - Iván Navarro (Chilean) → Iván Navarro (artist) and Iván Navarro (Spaniard) → Iván Navarro (tennis player). There is nothing shown that the Chilean artist is more notable than the Spanish tennis player. They both need to be disambiguated from each other, and by profession instead of nationality. Ivan Navarro should be kept as a DAB-page. Sebisthlm (talk) 19:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose Suggestion 1 (especially to Ivan Navarro and not Iván Navarro). Support suggestion 2 per (s2) nom. Sebisthlm (talk) 19:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose Suggestion 1 and support Suggestion 2 per disambiguation naming conventions. JPG-GR (talk) 05:15, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
• Support suggestion 2. Zuiver jo (talk) 21:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
• Support Original and Oppose suggestion 2; he is generally known as "Ivan Navarro" as shown in the cited sources. Per our naming conventions, the article name should be the name under which he is generally known in English, and for this person who works out of New York, that is "Ivan" and not "Iván". Gene Nygaard (talk) 23:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Furthermore, note specifically that the original move was undiscussed and unreferenced, and that this was pointed out in the nomination, and that nobody has presented either any arguments nor any evidence that he is generally known in English as "Iván Navarro", even after that fact was specifically pointed out. Gene Nygaard (talk) 23:58, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
• First of all, you're not adressing the DAB-problem with your suggestion; Ivan Navarro is clearly not an option because of the ambiguity with Iván Navarro (Spaniard). Secondly, it seems your problem is the accent on 'Iván'. If he's Chilean his name is spelt with an accent. If I understand you correctly you are citing WP:common name for excluding the accent, referring to three citations in the article (of which two are to the same dead link [now removed]). I don't think that the link you have referred to, or the ones I found on Google, suggests that there is a wp:common name in English that overrides his correct spelling (see for example WP:Proper names). Lastly, I don't understand your point of the previous move being undiscussed and unreferenced at all, what's your point? Sebisthlm (talk) 01:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Disambiguation was addressed; for two people, hatlines are sufficient. Furthermore, "If he's Chilean his name is spelt with an accent" doesn't cut it; it is neither our naming conventions rule, nor is your bald claim in that regard any kind of proper sourcing for the spelling of his name. He lives and works in and English-speaking country. What he uses there is the relevant and proper spelling. There are numerous links to articles using the proper English spelling in this article; you still have provided no reason not to use that. Gene Nygaard (talk) 02:15, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
    • OK, I see how the DAB-issue is adressed. However, Since it's not obvious which Iván Navarro is the most notable, I think neither should be at Iván Navarro. As for the accent, I don't think there is a question if he originally spelt his name with one; Iván is spelt with an accent in Spanish-speaking countries. I would say the burden of proof lies with whoever wants to say he doesn't. If I understand you correctly, you seem to think that whether he uses an accent or not, doesn't make a difference since it should be dropped anyway by WP:common. I don't agree, I think that personal names should be spelt the way the persons themselves spell it, even if the average English user spells it wrong. As an example I think Björn Borg should be at Björn Borg and not Bjorn Borg, regardless of how the average English reader would spell his name. Sebisthlm (talk) 23:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

• Since, even if the two names are different, only one letter ("á") separates the two names, then support Suggestion 2 per WP:NC(P) which recommends "adding a parethical (bracketed) disambiguator to the page name: for instance when both spellings are often or easily confused." . Also, support the use of artist/tennis player rather than Chilean/Spaniard as disambiguators no matter which suggestion is adopted. — AjaxSmack 04:10, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.