Template talk:Italian ethnicity

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Contents 1 Nov 2006 2 new look 3 New Additions 4 italians in australia 5 Who is Italian

[edit] Nov 2006

I've created this template to facilitate access to editing on the ethnicity templates. It can be a bit daunting to have to tease out of an article what to edit in a traditional {{Ethnic group}} template format. This method allows for folks to be able to concentrate on just the infobox itself. (→Netscott) 07:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] new look

The new look is great, but it needs to be modified. The populations in Croatia, Switzerland and much of France are historic and not part of the diaspora. Also, where is San Marino? 66.183.217.31 22:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Good question and critiques. Feel free to update the template as you see fit, just cite your sources as you do so. Sicilianmandolin 08:58, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Additions

I added some photos of Italians, I hope I did it right. It was my first edit. 04/17/07

Good start. I removed the Mussolini/da Vinci image as it was cluttering and distracting. Marconi was half Irish, so I wouldn't say he's one of the most representative of the common Italian, but then again, who is? Sicilianmandolin 08:54, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] italians in australia

hi i added the number of italians in australia according to the 2006 census P m kocovski (talk) 13:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Who is Italian

The population figures for some countries, such as Brazil and Argentina, are rather extreme. The sources talk abouut people who have at least some Italian heritage. That might be a person who's great-great-grandfather was Italian. Interpreting everybody with the tiniest Italian heritage as Italian is dubious to say the least. For most other population templates, we count the number of people holding a passport of that country. So what is interesting is the number of Italian nationals living in Brazil or Argentina, not people who might be 1/16th Italian, never set foot in Italy, doesn't speak Italian and perhaps doesn't even know anything about Italy. Using the same calculation, almost every person in the US is German :-) JdeJ (talk) 12:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

An excellent point but not easy to resolve! Your tags are not without merit; however, the question is really "what is ethnicity"? This has been discussed ad nauseum without any real resolution on other sites, for example at Talk:French people. I think these figures, and the article in general, are really about ancestral origin and not ethnicity. If it were about Italians as an "ethnic group" there would be much to debate: and some could even argue there is no such thing as an Italian "ethnic group" anyway, thus rendering the entire exercise moot. Nonetheless, with valid references of course, I think these "inflated" numbers are acceptable so long as what they represent is clear (currently they are not). One issue (of many), is where to draw the line (i.e. how far back do you go? What portion is enough?) and how can this be applied uniformily to all nations? I don't have answers to these questions, but it is clear to me that if we look at nationals (i.e. current citizens) as you suggest, we need to rewrite this article and ignore much the history of "Italian peoples" that contributed to the culture and composition of these countries in question. Dionix (talk) 19:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The Italian version here gives a model breakdown of 1) origins and 2) citizens. This concept could work here. Dionix (talk) 20:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for one of the nicest and best answers I've received in a long time! I think the solution you suggest is a very good one, keeping the figures (they are sourced and most probably correct) but make it clear what they represent and what they don't. At the moment, someone looking just at the template might believe the figures represent "through-and-through" Italians and start learning Italian for his upcoming vacation in Buenos Aires ;-) One possibility would be to make a clear distinction between Italian nationals and Italian origins. I think the text in the article on Italians is rather good, it makes the distinction between the diaspora/ancestry and nationality quite clear. If an easy way to keep that distincion in the table could be found, it would probably be a good solution. JdeJ (talk) 20:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)