Talk:Istok
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[edit] The Name
If sombody have UN accepted evidence that the name of the city is not Istogu but is Istok, then this articel must be under the name: Istogu and the page named "Istok" must be redirect. My evidence you kann see in UNMIK oficiale page.--Hipi Zhdripi 00:17, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Unitet Naticion Law in Kosovo
The user of the city names in English Language (newer version from the UN liable pilari in Kosovo for such think )
The original page of the Law (1. in albanian L., 2.Serbian L.)
- http://www.unmikonline.org/regulations/unmikgazette/03albanian/A2000regs/RA2000_43.htm
- http://www.unmikonline.org/regulations/unmikgazette/04serbian/SC2000regs/RSC2000_43.pdf
The UN Law in Kosovo says that the only oficele name are the names presentit in >A< every thinks als is out of Law. This is for albanian language.
RREGULLORe NR. 2000/43 UNMIK/REG/2000/43 27 korrik 2000 Mbi numrin, emrat dhe kufinjtë e komunave ------------------------------------------- Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm, Në pajtim me autorizimin e tij të dhënë me rezolutën 1244 (1999) të datës 10 qershor 1999 të Këshillit të Sigurimit të Kombeve të Bashkuara, Duke marrë parasysh Rregulloren nr. 1999/1 të datës 25 korrik 1999, të ndryshuar, të Misionit të Administratës së Përkohshme të Kombeve të Bashkuara në Kosovë (UNMIK) mbi autorizimin e Administratës së Përkohshme në Kosovë dhe Rregulloren Nr. 1999/24 të datës 12 dhjetor 1999 të UNMIK-ut mbi ligjin në fuqi në Kosovë, Me qëllim të qartësimit të numrit, emrave, shtrirja dhe kufinjve të komunave para mbajtjes së zgjedhjeve komunale në Kosovë, Shpall sa vijon: Neni 1 Numri dhe emrat e komunave Kosova ka tridhjetë komuna ashtu siç figurojnë në Tabelën ‘A’ të kësaj rregulloreje. Komunikimi zyrtar nuk përmban asnjë emër për ndonjë komunë i cili nuk figuron në Tabelën ‘A’ të kësaj rregulloreje, përveç që në ato komuna ku komunitetet etnike a gjuhësore joshqiptare dhe joserbe përbëjnë një pjesë substanciale, emrat e komunave jepen edhe në gjuhët e atyre komuniteteve. Neni 2 Shtrirja dhe kufinjtë e komunave Shtrirja e çdo komune dhe kufinjtë e tyre skicohen nga zonat e tyre përbërëse kadastrale. Zonat kadastrale të cilat përbëjnë çdo komunë figurojnë në Tabelën ‘B’ të kësaj rregulloreje. Neni 3 Zbatimi Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm mund të lëshojë direktiva administrative në lidhje me zbatimin e kësaj rregulloreje. Neni 4 Ligji i zbatueshëm Kjo rregullore mbulon çdo dispozitë në ligjin e zbatueshëm e cila nuk është në përputhje me të. Neni 5 Hyrja në fuqi Kjo rregullore hyn në fuqi më 27 korrik 2000. Bernard Kouchner Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm
The UN Law in Kosovo says that the only oficele name are the names presentit in >A< every thinks als is out of Law. This is for serbian language.
UREDBA BR. 2000/43
UNMIK/URED/2000/43
27. jul 2000. godine
O BROJU, IMENIMA I GRANICAMA OP[TINA
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara,
Shodno ovla{}ewu koje mu je dato Rezolucijom Saveta bezbednosti Ujediwenih
nacija 1244 (1999) od 10. juna 1999. godine,
Na osnovu Uredbe br. 1999/1 od 25. jula 1999. godine Privremene
administrativne misije Ujediwenih nacija na Kosovu (UNMIK), sa izmenama i
dopunama, o ovla{}ewima Privremene uprave na Kosovu i na osnovu Uredbe
UNMIK-a br. 2000/24 od 12. decembra 2000. godine o zakonu koji je u primeni na
Kosovu, <u>(hier is oficele user)</u>
U ciqu razja{wavawa broja, imena, oblasti i granica op{tina pre odr`avawa
op{tinskih izbora na Kosovu,
Ovim objavquje slede}e:
Clan 1
BROJ I IMENA OPSTINA
1.1 Kosovo ima trideset opstina kao sto je dato u Tabeli '''A''' u dodatku ovoj
Uredbi.
1.2 Zvani~na komunikacija ne mo`e da sadrzi bilo koje ime za opstinu koje
nije naziv odredjen u Tabeli A ove Uredbe, osim u onim opstinama gde etni~ke i
jezi~ke zajednice, koje nisu srpske i albanske ~ine znatan deo stanovni{tva, gde
se imena op{tina daju i na jezicima tih zajednica.
Clan 2
PODRU^JA I GRANICE OP[TINA
Podru~je svake op{tine i wene granice su ocrtane wenim sastavnim
katastarskim zonama. Katastarske zone koje ~ine svaku op{tinu su odre|ene u
Tabeli B prilo`enoj u dodatku ovoj Uredbi.
Clan 3
PRIMENA
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara mo`e da donese administrativno
uputstvo u vezi sa primenom ove Uredbe.
Clan 4
ZAKON KOJI JE U PRIMENI
Ova Uredba zamewuje svaku odredbu zakona koji je u primeni a koja nije saglasna
sa wom.
Clan 5
STUPAWE NA SNAGU
Ova Uredba stupa na snagu 27. jula 2000. godine.
Bernar Ku{ner
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara
tabel of contens >A<
TABELA ‘A’ (alb) RASPORED A (ser.) Emrat e komunave (alb.)IMENA OPSTINA (serb) Albanski Srpski 01 Deçan \Decani 02 Gjakovë \Djakovica 03 Gllogovc \Glogovac 04 Gjilan \Gnilane 05 Dragash \Dragas 06 Istog \Istok 07 Kaçanik \Kacanik 08 Klinë\ Klina 09 Fushë Kosovë\ Kosovo Polje 10 Kamenicë \Kamenica 11 Mitrovicë \Kosovska Mitrovica 12 Leposaviq \Leposavic 13 Lipjan \Lipqan 14 Novobërdë \Novo Brdo 15 Obiliq \Obilic 16 Rahovec\ Orahovac 17 Pejë\ Pec 18 Podujevë\ Podujevo 19 Prishtinë \Pristina 20 Prizren \Prizren 21 Skenderaj\ Srbica 22 Shtime\ Stimqe 23 Shtërpcë\ Strpce 24 Suharekë\ Suva Reka 25 Ferizaj \Urosevac 26 Viti \Vitina 27 Vushtrri\ Vucitrn 28 Zubin Potok \Zubin Potok 29 Zveçan\ Zvecan 30 Malishevë\ Malisevo
If sambody have a argument Im waitting. In another cases you are going to interpret the dokumets (you are out of UN Law) and you dont have argumet, you dont work for Wikipedia but are destroing the Wikipedia image. I know that my english is not so gut, but a desinformation is not gut for Wikipedia and for the peopel in Kosovo. You can have a problem with "Haage". This tabel is speeken better then I.--Hipi Zhdripi 20:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] No argumet
No argumet!!! please dont inteprete the documents
Sombody have putit this Kosovo place in Serbia stub or category or template here with out argumet. We dont have a argumet that Kosovo is part of S/M. We have tha Constitution of this countrie but we have the rez. 1244 wich is more importen for the Wikipedia and is saying that Kosovo it is a part of Yougoslavia and is prototoriat of UN. Till we dont have a clearly argument from UN, aricel about Kosovo must be out of this stub or category or template. Pleas dont make the discution with intepretation or the Law wich are not accordin to 1244. Everybodoy can do that but that is nothing for Wikipedia.--Hipi Zhdripi 04:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Importen material for the articel
B92 - News - Headlines —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hipi Zhdripi (talk • contribs) -using the IP 172.174.222.131 (talk · contribs)- 22:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] On different histories
I am asking you to protect the page of Istog due to constant vandalization by the user called PajaBG.
The name of Istog/Istok is not related to nationalism or anything similar. I provided a number of various etimologies on the name of Istog/Istok both in Serbian and Albanian that are widely used.
Be advised that Istog is not a town or a name established after 1999 as PajaBG wrongly thinks. My page clearly excplains that the meaning of Burim is officially refuted.
I am also asking you to protect the same page from a Kosovar Albanian user called Zhuki who put the meaning of the name as Isa Shtogu, which is a combination of two different names that I have provided.
Thank You and keep writing by using NPOV —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isa Mulaj (talk • contribs) 19:51, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think you have a misconception about what vandalism is: bringing correct and true data is not, bringing fake and invented ones is. The name Istok/Istog (older first) is not related to nationalism but your etymologies are. You can provide even more numbers of your fake etymologies (which are not widely used as you say but widely invented, yes), you can provide an etymology that New York is actually an Albanian word, but the problem is not so much that it's simple case of Albanian propaganda, but more it's total falseness and forged history context. It would be as if Asians, who today make over 20% of Birmingham's population would claim that Birmingham is Urdu word for the mill owner so it must be Urdu name. Total nonsense. And it is quite clear from my corrections of your messings that Istog as a phonetic variant of Istok can be almost 300 years old and not since 1999. Also, as the name of the river is always older than that of the town, Istočka reka in Serbian means the river that flows out of the well while in Albanian means nothing (like 99% of other toponyms in Kosovo and Metohija). But I am sure you can 'provide' more of those etymologies of yours... PajaBG 17:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
PajaBG,
There were no Serbs living in Istog before it was annexed by Montenegro in 1913. The Serbs from Istog were Montengrins and I knew them very well as I am from Istog. Following the Milosevic's brutal regime over Kosovo, the minority of Montegrins in Kosovo dissapeared. Before the 1990s, it was common to use: Serbi i Crnogorci (i.e. Serbs and Montengrins). Only recently (after the independence of Montenegro) some Montenegrins have begun to return to Istog. Have you seen them? I have.
The names of the towns and places in Kosovo are adopted by Serbia. For instance, Skenderaj after WWII was called Srbica to mean something Serbian. Ferizaj was called Urosevac (the name of a Serb). And this is the only battle of Serbia now after losing the wars in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Kosovo (though Serbia commited too much attrocities against defenceless civilians).
By the way, Serbia's history is related to Russia because that is from where it came to Kosovo. And when Serbia came to Kosovo, whom did it find there, or was Kosovo an inhabited territory? Are Albanians of Kosovo descendants of Russians as you are?. What was the name of Istog before the Serbs arrived in Istog? Have a look at the official names which the world knows (see above the United Nations Law in Kosovo). It is Istog/Istok, thus the Albanian version (the oldest and the original one) comes first.
Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isa Mulaj (talk • contribs) 15:15, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- If it wouldn't be sad it would be funny...there were no Serbs in Kosovo before 1913...maybe there are even no Serbs today here...maybe Serbs are just a holographic projection from another planet...I bet you'd like that. Serbs from Istok were not Montenegrins (which is also irrelevant as Montenegrins are also Serbs until Communists didn't invent them as separate nation in 1945, one of your fakes). My family is from Istok until you forced them out in 1999 and my uncle was slaughtered by Albanians on Orthodox Easter on April 11, 1999 so Serbian atrocities and similar Albanian propagandist crap about defenseless civilians is not something you wish to discuss with me. No one returns to Istok except to sell houses and fields because no one can live with you there. Let's get back to the history and all the fakes and lies: Srbica (not Skenderaj) was founded as a new settlement in the 1920's (not after WW II, false) and didn't exist before that so it couldn't be called Skenderaj prior to that (false). It is a good thing that you mentioned Urosevac because you know the story about this dual name: during the Ottomans, two Serbian brothers lived there and one remained a Christian (his name was Uros) and the other one became a Muslim and took the name Feriz...not an A of Albanians in it (false). Your mention of 'lost Serbian wars' is suppose to annoy me I guess but instead it is tragically pathetic and I will not address it at all. Serbs didn't come from Russia as Russia didn't exist in VI-VII century when Serbs came to the Balkans (this is not even false, this is historical idiocy). Serbs are not descendants of the Russians and they already came to the Balkans as separate ethnicity, just like the Croats (historical idiocy. this would mean that all Slavic people are descendants of the Russians; but it shows what you think of Slavic people because obviously Russians are suppose to be something bad). Kosovo also didn't exist prior to 1945 (Albanian propaganda) until Communists created it and with it one of many problems we have to deal with today. Kosovo was NEVER any kind of territorial entity until then and even then they didn't know how to call it so they named it after two geographical fields that make it: Kosovo and Metohija. Kosovo itself is Serbian word and means nothing in Albanian. As for your insinuations on who lived there before the Serbs, there lived Romans, the remnants of the romanized Illyrian and Thracian tribes, Greeks, some Armenians, etc. but not Albanians as Albanians as an ethnicity were formed much later. This is also false from your side as you make it seem that Istok is at least II millennia old. So you can't claim something that's not yours (Illyrian Dardani tribe and the whole absolutely improvable etymology of Dardania being the pear country). As if Serbs would claim emperor Constantine is a Serb because he was born on the territory of nowadays Serbia. Nonsense. What you need to learn from history is that when Serbs settled in these areas, they belonged to the Byzantine Empire, which called itself Roman Empire and it's population considered themselves Romans...check the Byzantine Empire page, I can't teach you everything. Albanians formed later between the ethnic Serbian territories to the north and Greek to the south, on territory of nowadays (inland) Albania and had nothing to do with the territory of nowadays Kosovo and Metohija (Kosovo field is only the eastern half) as before Ottomans conquered it, there were virtually no Albanians there, you began settling there VIII-IX centuries after the Serbs, and massively after 1,000 years.
- With all this bent and weird view on history you have no wonder you have all those fake etymologies to offer. You sound just like those Albanian historians from the Enver Hoxha era...I remember one of the professors from Tirana I watched on TV in 1980's who claimed that Albanians are the oldest nation in the world and that they have the oldest language on the planet (10,000 years old!!!) that all other languages developed from, including language of the ancient Egyptians...we laughed, not foreseeing what such idiocies will bring in years to come. You just seem to be a good student of his. PajaBG 11:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Paja BG,
If Albanians are not the oldest people on earth, they are certainly older than the Serbs. Serbs are Croats, Croats are Serbs, Montegrins are Serbs, Bosnians are Serbs, Serbs are Bosnians, etc. All of these are Russians.
If Albanians do have any connection to Dardans, their language must have been similar to Russian (like it is yours, of Croats, of Montenegrins, etc). Why Albanian is completely different language? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isa Mulaj (talk • contribs) 13:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Your insisting on historically hilarious antiquity of Albanian nation and inability to differentiate Slavs and Russians is amusing and also focal for understanding your inability to differentiate ancient Illyrians and modern Albanians. I don't know where did you get this that someone is saying Albanians are descendants of Russians? You are the first to mention it so it must be one of your immaginary history things. I am not even challenging the theory that Albanians are descendants of the Illyrians but not at the time of Serbian settling in the Balkans (Constantine Porphyrogenitus' De Administrando Imperio). There is a thing called e-t-h-n-o-g-e-n-e-s-i-s (I know, I know, sounds complicated) and in process of clumsy Russian-Serbian mumbling you gave a perfect example of ethnogenesis: first, a Slavic mass; separate ethnicities differentiated from it (like Russians, Poles, Serbs, Croats); then new ethnicities separated from Serbs or Croats or both (by the proces of religious conversion, like Bosnian Muslims, or simply by decrees, like Montenegrins). Someone should tell you two things when you were a kid: first, when God created Adam, he didn't create him as an Albanian; two, there is no Santa Clause. Anyway, this is the last discussion with you as it was intendent to supress your historical forgeries, not to convince you personally of anything. And of course, I will continue removing those fakes you post in the article. PajaBG 20:57, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] On the "Name" section
I've hidden the section from view (diff.) as unsourced & contentious. I ask everyone to first source it appropiatedly (as required by WP:V, WP:NOR & WP:RS), and only then make it visible again.
Any disagreement among editors would be dealt with by clearly attributing interpretations, writing something along the lines of: Serbian historian Smith considers Thisref, while British historian Jones espouses This View ref.
If you don't know how to source it, please read WP:CITE or ask here for help. I would be only too happy to help on this. - Best regards, Evv 03:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you PajaBG for citing the source for Istok's etymology :-) I encourage you to continue sourcing similar edits in the same form: it improves the quality of articles and simultaneously helps avoid edit wars.
- If somebody could provide a reliable source for the other possible etymology , we could finally end this dispute. - Best regards, Evv 19:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
-
- Hi. Well, this is the most handy source which I had at home at the time. I will search the library of the Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences for some more (and detailed) sources. But, I don't think this will end this dispute because I am quite sure there are sources which will claim that the name used by one nation is actually the name of the other nation, which came...later. That's the complex of small nations. Communists encouraged nationalisms of small nations to ballance the nationalisms of the big ones and now we have new nation proclaimed in the Balkans every two months. And, by automatism, everything that ever flew over newly proclaimed area is declared belonging to the new nation. In the Balkans, every village must have its own state, nation, language and church. As I stated above in the discussion, I personally watched some Albanian historian on TV who claimed that Albanian language is the oldest on the planet, 10,000 years old and that ancient Egyptian language developed from Albanian. And just few days ago, Rafiz Haliti, one of the leaders of the Albanian DUI party in Macedonia, said that already Plutarch wrote that Alexander the Great was an Albanian (!?). I will dispute any such claims and sources on the name of Istok and will not allow it to have the same treatment (by the way, I checked the Albanian (official) site of Istok: there is no mention of any trees or anything and the source is so reliable that the period of medieval Serbia when the percentage of Albanians living on Kosovo and Metohija was 0% is called Slavic occupation...occupation of what?) PajaBG 16:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Etymology
We should put both versions of the etymology of the name because we dont know for sure wich one is true--Bindicapriqi (talk) 17:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
- Name od Istok was first recorded in the XIV century, in an bestowment of the land to the monastery of Decani by Tsar Dusan. Albanians began settling territory of todays Kosovo several centuries later (as said by every source but Albanian; even Turkish early records from XV and XVI century mention no Albanian houses in Kosovo). Only Albanian historians claim that Albanians ever since the beginning of the world existed as such and lived on every inch they do live now. Therefore, a name that existed 400 years before Albanians came there can't be really an Albanian name, right? PajaBG (talk) 17:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
-
- So you are saying that serbs where in istog before albanians . As you might know the albanians where in the balkan peninsula long before the serbs , and there was albanians in kosovo before there was serbs too --Bindicapriqi (talk) 17:43, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, of course they were. I watched one of your "historians" on TV which claimed Albanians are 10,000 old and that ancient Egyptians and their language developed out of the Albanians and Albanian language. Or as they claim today that Serbian monasteries on Kosovo and Metohija are built by Albanians in times when Albanians didn't live there even though the entire world recognize them as part of the Serbian cultural heritage. The litteral (and doubtful) claiming of ancient Illyrians heritage is another thing (and it's not so intelligent implementation, i.e., someone snapped a finger and all Illyrians, wherever they were, transformed into Albanians, etc). Albanian usurpation of the heritage of other nations sometimes gets hilarious. New site of Kosovo's Ministry of Industry has new name for the Adriatic Sea: Albanian Sea and among touristic attractions of Kosovo names Albanian Alps (Sar Planina), japanese birds, american trees and...polar bears!!! Maybe polar bears developed from Albanian cats? I'm sure the first amino-acids in primordial soup were Albanian too. There is no room for this "version". First and second, it is neither historical nor chronological (as explained above). Third, it is not logical. Albanians claim Istok (well) is Serbian rendering of their Istog. If that is the case, why on Earth are they changing it now to Burim, which is translation of the Serbian Istok (well) which is supposedly rendering of Albanian Istog....why not keeping "Albanian original" Istog? Any sense? PajaBG (talk) 22:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
- You clearly dont know what you are talking about.Im not saying the albanians built the monasteries or anything but they were there before the serbs.So if you are a serb I'd suggest learning your national history.Oh and how do you explain that the albanian word "shtog" refers to the same nature on wich Istog lies in (to much of a coincidence dont you think) , or perhaps this word comes from a serbian word , or perhaps the albanians migrated to the balkan with the croats and found the serbs there.
- The albanian lands are actually much bigger than the borders of albania , they include Kosovo ,the Presevo valley and more ( refer to Greater Albania ).But the serbs want those lands so much they claim the lands are serbian, theyre pathetic (no offence).
- How do you know the serbian version is the correct one ? were you there when they named it ? I dont think so , so please stop deleting the albanian version of the etymology of the name --B.C. 13:44, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Greater Albanian lands...that was exactly my point. Shtog is not Serbian word of course, in Serbian it's "zova", just like Istok has nothing to do with "shtog". I will remove every impossible and obviously false etymology. PajaBG (talk) 15:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
