Talk:Islom Karimov

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BBC is carring an interesting article about the current uprising, mainly highlighting what is happening in Uzbekistan and how problematic it is to the west, and for US to be specific. The most interesting paragraph is this. "Meanwhile, the US State Department's website carries reports on the "systematic" use of torture by the Uzbek government, but also, somehow, manages to call it "a stable and moderate force"."[1]

Contents

[edit] Image

The image on the bottom of the page seems to be broken. First of all, the picture is unproportional and that's what attracted a lot of attention (for it's well-nigh ugly) and made me click on it, but when you got there, on the image page (the page with descriptions) there's a cropped picture with rather good quality. What's that? A bug? Maybe this is the real reason why: "This image is protected from modification because it is currently or will soon be on the Main Page." --Dennis Valeev 03:54, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Correct form of his name

The surname of the president of Uzbekstan, is Karimana or Karimai, and not "Karimov".

OK, well right now the article mixes the spelling up ridiculously. We need to decide on which spelling to use and be consistent. Now, I've only ever heard his name as "Karimov", but I'm just an American. Normally, though, we will tend to favor the usage that is most common in English, since this is the English Wikipedia. Everyking 03:19, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
No, his surname is Karimov. It's Каримов in russian and Каримов in uzbek language. Just read english, russian and uzbek newspapers. Or you can go to the official governmental website (http://gov.uz). There's his name in english, russian and uzbek. Anton Kovalyov
Hi I'm from Uzbekistan. His correct last name is Karimov in English and Uzbek (Latin), Каримов in Russian and Uzbek (Cyrillic) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.5.238.53 (talk) 20:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Bad sources, outdated claims

The given article does not discuss support having "further sparked anti-American sentiments among the world's Muslims". Uzbekistani forces violently clashed with protestors earlier this year, the US strongly condemned the government's actions, and Karimov decided to kick the US troops out. The Guardian article even discusses US support for human rights groups in the country working toward reform. [Ex.:] [2] [3] [4]

The edit war is silly because it is simply a matter of a user who has been harassing me. But inserting the exact same material with no critical look at it or the involved sources is not much better. --TJive 22:38, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Please edit the sentences to reflect what is actually in the articles, or in more current pieces - I only object to censoring all info about the US relationship with karimov which is what seemed like was going on.--csloat 22:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original ethnicity

I've heard that he was an ethnic Tajik, is it true? By the way he seems to have a hate against Turkey, does anybody know why? Orhanoglu 23:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

He is a Tajiki-speaking Uzbek. I.e. he is an Uzbek by ethnicity, but his mother tongue is Tajiki, because he was born in the Tajiki-speaking city of Samarqand.
Don Alessandro 17:49, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
He is half Tajik and half Uzbek and that is why he speaks both Uzbek and Tajik, as for Samarkand it is not Tajiki speaking city. It is a city where many Tajiks reside, and since he is one of them, he speaks Tajik.

[edit] FYI

"Until 2005, the worst excesses of Karimov’s regime had taken place in the torture rooms of his prisons. But on May 13, he ordered a mass killing that could not be concealed. In the city of Andijan, 23 businessmen, held in prison and awaiting a verdict, were freed by their supporters, who then held an open meeting in the town square. An estimated 10,000 people gathered, expecting government officials to come and listen to their grievances. Instead, Karimov sent the army, which massacred hundreds of men, women and children. A 2003 law made Karimov and all members of his family immune from prosecution forever." (http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2006/edition_01-22-2006/Dictators)

[edit] His religion?

What religion is Karimov? Josh 06:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Karimov is a person, not a religion. He has said he does not believe in God, but recently he has been using Islamic imagery in his speeches. KazakhPol 18:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Endorising child labor

Hi I am from Uzbeksitan.

Karimov is a big supporter of child labor, I think it should be added to the article. Here are sources: [5][6][7][8][9][10]

Also I think it should be mentioned that although officially he is a Democratic President in reality his ruling is dictator ship, this is said in links that are already cited, and that he is probably going to be ruling until death since he has been making laws that keep extending his term, and the elections are never fair. This is also said in the links that are already in article.


p.s. there is a user here I think is from Uzbek Government that is filtering such truths about Karimov, what can we do about it.

1. The Uzbek government's alleged use of child labor is irrelevant to this article unless you can provide a source in which Karimov mentions child labor or an accusation that he himself is aware/approves of it. It is relevant to the Economy of Uzbekistan article.
2. I have never heard of nor seen a dictator ship. Unless you can provide a source in which he is accused of this, you cannot add it to this article per the WP:BLP policy.
3. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. We cannot speculate on what Karimov will most likely do.
4. Implying that I work for the Uzbek government and that I am "filtering truths" is quite incivil. Please review WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. KazakhPol 22:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
1) I'm sorry that 5 sources that I provided did not meet your standards, maybe if I go back to Uzbekistan, and do a documentary
about a thing that everyone in Central Asia knows about, you in particular would be happy, or maybe you'll ask me if that's fake
too. You should know better right since you do research on Kazakhstan, even though I'm from Uzbekistan. Doesn't the article in Wikipedia, that already says that Karimov controls the entire government tell that he
might control the cotton production too.
2) I'm sorry that you have never heard of dictatorship before, it is a type of government,(kind of like communism but everyone
isn't equal) where the government controls everything, and dictates what to do to other "independent" organizations. Which what :: exactly Uzbekistan is. In constitution it that it is a democratic country, just like USA, but it reality it is not, businesses, :: media, everything is controlled by Karimov. I'm sorry, but the sources that are already there, cite that, so I don't provide
with anything more, but if you want more you can just search in Google.
3) I'm not suggesting that Wikipedia is a crystal ball, in fact it is not, what I was saying is, that Karimov is a dictator (see
# 2) and since he controls everything, it is likely that his daughter will become the "president" in the next "elections" in
2008 (I don't think I need to explain furthermore to an intelligent person right?) but I agree, you've got a point, it is not
necessary, but like I said I was just suggesting.
4) I'm sorry that you took it so harshly, even though I wasn't saying it about you. Again I'm sorry, even though I wasn't talking
about you. Anyways I looked at the rules and it doesn't say that you couldn't say that some one keeps filtering truths about
a corrupt government, and suggesting that it might be an official of that government. You might have thought that it was a
personal attack on you, so again I'm sorry.

[edit] Islom and Islam

(copied-and-pasted discussion from KazakhPol and Švitrigaila's talk pages)

I saw De Wikiman changed his name back to Islam. I do not understand how you see his Russian name as Islam and his Uzbek name as Islom. Neither Islam nor Islom are Russian or Uzbek. They are transliterations of how his name is pronounced. Google and Yahoo get way more results with Islam than with Islom. KazakhPol 16:48, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Islom Karimov is his Uzbek name. Uzbek language uses the Latin alphabet, so there is nothing to "transliterate". Only names from languages written with another alphabet are "transliterated". His name is Islom Karimov and that's all. There is no more need to transliterate Islom Karimov than to transliterate Lech Wałęsa or François Mitterrand. And you'll remark that O‘tkir Sultonov or Shavkat Mirziyoyev's names are given on Wikipedia in their only correct form, without any "transliteration" from the Latin alphabet to the Latin alphabet.
My remark about the mix was because De Wikiman changed Islom Abdug‘aniyevich Karimov into Islam Abdug‘aniyevich Karimov, thus changing only the given name (with no explication and no discussion) and not the patronymic name. But Abdug‘aniyevich is the Uzbek spelling of it. So the spelling Islam Abdug‘aniyevicch is an inept mix of his Russian and Turkmen names.
And I absolutely don't care about the "it's-the-most-often-found-form-of-his-name-argument". This kind of arguments has no place in a serious encyclopedia. An encyclopedia must give exact facts, not most common received ideas. It must then give exact names with exact spellings, rather than most commonly found spellings.
Švitrigaila 10:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Uzbek is a cyrillic language and was officially recognized as such until the '90s. His name is Islam because he is nominally a Muslim. "Islom" doesnt mean anything. KazakhPol 19:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
No. Uzbek is now written in latin alphabet. And his name is Islom because his parents chose it. Kristján Eldjárn is not named Kristján because he's christian, but because his parents chose that name. We won't write his name Christian Eldyarn because "Kristán doesn't mean anything". Švitrigaila 19:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Really? His parents chose his name to be Islom? Interesting, since he was born in 1938 and the Uzbek language wasnt written in the Latin alphabet until 1992. His parents predicted the future? KazakhPol 19:55, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
No. But Uzbek language written with the Cyrillic alphabet already used a o at this place. His name in Uzbek was already Ислом Каримов as you can see here. And the prononciation was already Islom since a long a in Uzbek is pronounced and written o, like in Persian language. Ислам Каримов was his Russian name, as Aleksandr Moroz was Oleksandr Moroz's Russian name. Švitrigaila 20:31, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Švitrigaila on this. —Nightstallion (?) 15:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wow

Wow, no one even mentioned that this president has been rated as one of the top worst dictators ever, by many many people. Or does someone keep removing above mentioned statement. Parade Magazine, United Nations, Human Rights Watch, and many others have noted him as the worst dictators... if you google this you'll find about 500000 results for this.

[edit] Dictator

He is a dictator but people FAIL to prove it! We need to fight back - education in Uzbekistan is so weak that students don't even know what their government is about. The level of corruption is unbelievable. People are starving. We really need some further research - it may not be written on BBC's website but he is a dictator and the world lacks in educated people from Uzbekistan.

Recently, a journalist who was writing about this was murdered.

Karimov suppressed revolution in Andijan by the people who were FED UP, Andijan Massacre explains it but not fully. He has killed people and is president for life. His daughter is also very notorious,

I ask those who write for/edit wikipedia to help us say more about it for we're trying to fight for justice. Trust us for we know more. I myself grew up there and I know what I'm saying.

I also support "Islom" more than "Islam". "Islam" - even though it's a word in English, came from Russian, which is NOT VALID in this case. It is about Uzbekistan and Uzbek language written in ENGLISH on wikipedia.

I'm affraid to write about this and I ask you to hide my IP address.

Thank you

PS: It is indeed true that the government "filters" internet - so please help us spread the word and the truth - we're tired of censorship.

[edit] Jacques Chirac

Uhm.... that last section involving Jacques Chirac and their apparently friendly ties.... I think it needs a source. The wording sounds a bit opinionated, also. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyrannischgott (talk • contribs) 04:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)