Talk:Islands of the North Atlantic

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[edit] This and that

In the spirt of irreverent semantics I suggest the term The West Asian Isles, Europe is really just a sub-continent like India.

Seabhcan April 04

I suggest that the American continents should be named the inter-Pacific-Atlantic continents so that people are not offended by the region being called "American" (and hence clearly property of the USA). Rnt20 12:10, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

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(The following was moved here from the main article.)

One problem is that in their eagerness to not trample each others' feelings they have ignored those of the inhabitants of Iceland, among other islands in the North Atlantic addressed by none of the web-links below.

It is certainly not without precedent for people to use geo-political name that encompases only part of what is literally described by the term. Other examples include "America" for the United States, "Europe" for the European Union, "Africa" for Sub-Saharan Africa. On a personal note, I am not advocating the use of the term IONA. It remains to be seen whether it ever gets used outside the particular context of Northern Ireland politics and diplomacy. However the fact that it is used at all does give weight my point that the term "British Isles" is seen by many people as problematic. --Eob

To an outsider the "anglo-centric" term would more logically have to be "the English Isles," a solipsism. But surely Greenland is one of the islands of the North Atlantic. What about St. Pierre and Miquelon? Are they not also IONAs? Wetman

So Iona must be classed as one of the IONA! Loganberry 09:49, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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An early reference to IONA was in Sir John Hackett's _The Third World War_. eddieuny 18:02, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hackett's Third World War was a 1985 novel with—tellingly in this context—a fantasy military scenario. --Wetman 02:20, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

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Well I've never heard of IONA, and I live in them. Personally I don't see it catching on. We say the English Channel the French say La Manche... What is in a name? A rose called by any other would smell as sweet. Rednaxela 17:27, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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I'm Irish and I agree IONA is vague and problematic, but I really dislike the term British Isles being applied to the republic of Ireland. I personally don't see a reason why a term is needed at all, but people will continue to use one. The argument that the Romans and Greeks used a similar term has it's problems. The Romans never came here, Ireland was just that island past Britain with the bad weather. Their naming is hardly anything to go by.

[edit] What about Dispute over the name of the British Isles ?

There are already Dispute over the name of the Persian Gulf and Dispute over the name of the Sea of Japan articles. From what I've read here, it seems this geographical naming dispute probably merits it own article as well. Please respond on Talk:British Isles--Pharos 20:03, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Article overhaul

I've changed the article to reflect the sources available at Talk:British Isles/References#Islands of the North Atlantic.EricR 02:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll wait a few days then either:

  1. list on WP:RM to move to IONA or IONA (acronym)
  2. cut and paste the new content into IONA (get out of the way of an 'Islands of the North Atlantic' article which doesn't conflict with our sources and WP:NEO)

EricR 17:17, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


The Belfast Agreement was signed on the 10th of April 1998 where Strand Three uses the nomenclature British-Irish Council. This Dáil debate from th 21st of April 1998 uses IONA as an alternative for the British Isles not as a synonym for the British-Irish Council. I could find references to the world being flat - it does not make it so. Iolar Iontach 09:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Agree. IONA refers to the island group, not the council. Biggs-Davison may well have wanted a 'Council of the IONA', but what we ended up with was the British-Irish Council. Bastun 10:30, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Of course the current name is 'British-Irish Council', but our sources make clear that IONA was a proposed name for the council. Biggs-Davison coined the acronym IONA for a vision similar to the the British-Irish Council. We can't simply ignore those secondary sources, one published as recently as 2005, which clearly say IONA is an acronym and suggested as the name of a council.
I do not disagree that there has been some usage of 'Islands of the North Atlantic' in which the speaker clearly meant the archipelago. The Dáil debate you pointed out is probably not the best example: "...reminder of the spiritual affinity which exists between the two islands..." emp. added. I seem to recal another example (also from a Dáil debate?) in which the speaker could only have meant the archipelago.
One of my suggestions above was to have separate pages for the acronym IONA, and the name 'Islands of the North Atlantic'. IONA would explain the acronym as a proposed name for the British-Irish council. Islands of the North Atlantic (if it can be supported by sources) would tell of the usage as a replacement of 'British Isles'. Biggs-Davision, Dennis Canavan, Peter Luff, and some of Bertie Ahern's usage of IONA would be represented in the former article.EricR 14:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

How many times does this have to be said? As Bastun correctly points out, IONA refers to the island group, not the council. Biggs-Davison may well have wanted a 'Council of the IONA', but what we ended up with was the British-Irish Council. IONA never was a proposed name for the British Isles Council. The article you have added in is complete mis-sourced rubbish. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 06:03, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

"How many times does this have to be said?" Assertions of The Truth™ not backed by reliable sources are unconvincing. Please look again at the provided sources:
  • (Coulter 2005) Sir John Biggs-Davison...suggested a loose linkage of the United Kingdom, the Republic, Isle of Man and Channel Islands to form the Islands of North Atlantic (IONA). In reality, the only political grouping representing these values...
  • (Aughey 2005) The UUP had long been interested in such an overarching Council of the British Isles and it had also been an idea that inspired British Conservatives like Sir John Biggs-Davison who had earlier coined the acronym IONA, Isles of the North Atlantic, for a similar vision
  • Denis Canavan: the concept of a Council of the Isles had been put forward by the Ulster Unionists and was referred to as a "Council for the British Isles" by David Trimble. This would cause offence to Irish colleagues; he suggested as an acronym IONA-Islands of the North Atlantic.
  • Peter Luff: In the same context, there will be a council of the isles. I think that some people are calling it IONA--the islands of the north Atlantic
  • Bertie Ahern: The British-Irish Council is the expression of a relationship that at the origin of the Anglo-Irish process in 1981 was sometimes given the name Iona, islands of the North Atlantic, and sometimes Council of the Isles
If anyone thinks i have taken quotes out of context, or changed meaning with the added emphasis, more text is available at Talk:British Isles/References. Do you deny the exsistence of these sources? Do you deny their plain text meaning? Or do you simply claim they are wrong?
I have never denied further usage of IONA as a name for the archipelago, but for inclusion in Wikipedia that information must be found in a reputable published source. If you can not find such a source, perhaps something can be made from (Kearney 1997): "are proposing a new social geography...the 'Britannic melting pot', the 'British-Irish archipelago' or 'Islands of the North Atlantic'(IONA)..." EricR 15:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
If we cannot agree on what these sources tell us about the acronym IONA, maybe we should gather the opinions of more editors. Maybe an article RfC? Would you agree?EricR 15:05, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revert war

Rather than a revert per day, perhaps the editors in question might want to look for arbitration, mediation, or similar, and/or come up with a compromise text that satisfies both 'sides'? Bastun 09:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Compound word to compromise

Given that British Isles is not favoured by all, why not take the first sylable from "British" and the second from "Irish" and put them together consecutively for a new name fo the Islands? Dainamo 15:23, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Brirish? Itish? Brish? Don't think so... ;) —Nightstallion (?) 17:37, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sentence improvement

To improve the readability of the last sentence in the first paragraph, I've inserted "Its intended purpose was...". I think this is better, but am happy to discuss! Kind regards, Pconlon 20:17, 23 June 2007 (GMT)