Talk:Islamic view of anal sex
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[edit] Article is extensively sourced
Article is extensively sourced. Deletion should only take place after discussion at AFD. If some scholars disapprove, then the subject IS controversial, & so seems noteworthy.
Rana Ammar Mazhar 18:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
This is to follow up on what Ranna Ammar Mazhar mentioned. Rana, I believe you well covered the aspect of anal sex except for commenting on the Ahadith that we keep hearing about prophit Muhamed prohibiting anal sex. What is your take on that?
Another genearl point to all muslims: Please stop differentiating between Sunni and Shia. People all over the world are unifying and looking for things that make unity, and some of us are still looking for reasons to continue fighting... does this make sense? You can not reject an opinion because it belongs to shia sect. However, you can comment on the content of the opinion.
We are all together one OMMAH, and the difference in opinion is Rahmmah. At least we all believe in the same book. Let us be smarter than that!
Regards, A muslim (neither Sunni nor Sheai)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.0.231.125 (talk) 01:25, August 30, 2007 (UTC)
The sources are not authoritative. They are mostly from Shia hate sites or Pervez's criticism of Ahadith. One needs to do some better work to prove that anal sex is indeed controversial otherwise it is straightforward prohibited.... Farhan80.78.136.115 12:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Answer: The both sources “Sahih Al-Bukhari” & “Usool al- Kafi” are authoritative. Sistani source is not a Shia hate sites. Pervez's criticism of Ahadith is not wrong. Abu-Dawud criticism is authoritative. It is a very important topic, if one can read Urdu & Arabic text in image. This particular saying is well known.
I wonder what Sistani thinks? I am oddly amused that he finds playing chess to be forbidden debauchery but is OK with anal sex. [1].
It is precisely to avoid having too many children that some Muslims practice anal sex. One man, writing to the Islamic Q&A website, says that his wife doesn't have any problem with it. "I think this is the best way of family planning instead of using condoms," the man writes, though he adds that many of his friends have told him otherwise. [2]
Thanks.202.5.148.4 04:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Question: Please help me for fining the truth. In Bukhari sharif hadesh no-4170 & 4171,said that anal sex is halal/jayaj.But you said (in mail a & q)that its haram.Now i'm confusied. I want to know what's the truth?Is anal sex haram or not? Please response my quetion [3].
Here the point to be noted is that Abu-Dawud denies the Bukhari sharif hadesh no-4170 & 4171. But the Imam Sb. did not answer the real question about Bukhari sharif hadesh no-4170 & 4171 in his answer at [4].
202.5.148.4 17:35, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Rana Ammar Mazhar 19:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Please check all the references given. No one can prove with honesty that the references are wrong.
Some Muslims knows that Anal Sex is permissible according to Hadith of Bukhari [5] Some Muslim clerics say Anal Sex is a cool form of contraceptive.[6]. Some Muslims practice Anal Sex for family planning due to permission of Hadith of Bukhari and there is a FATWA in permission of anal and oral sex between wife husband in Saudia.[7].
“Narrated Ahmed (one of the top Islamic scholars) that if a man was unable to control his sexual desire during the fasting of Ramadan and he wanted to ejaculate in a manner that does not ruin his fasting (such as masturbating with his own hands or massaging his penis in the body of his wife or his slave girl), he is allowed to masturbate with the hand of his child slave-girl or the hand of a non-Muslim woman and he is allowed to put his penis into any area (e.g. anal or oral) but not in their vagina.” Baddaa Al-Fawaed (The pearls of the greatest benefits) for Ibn Al- Kaim : Bab Al-Itnab Fi Al-Igaba (Chapter The In-Depth answer)- Section of Istimnaa (Masturbation). [8].
“Your wives are your tilth; go, then, do your tilth (sex) wherever you desire … and do some preparatory steps (foreplay) first. (Quran 2: 223) One of the disciples of Mohammed said in the explanation of this verse “Do you know the reason for this verse or revelation?” The other person said “No.” The disciple continued “It is revealed to allow for making sex with women in their “Dubur” anus (anal sex)” … and Ibn Kumar said this verse is to allow Muslims to have sex in the “Dubur” or anus of women.” Fath Al-Bary Ala Sharh Sahih Al-Buchary Book of Tafseer (explanation) of the Qur’an chapter, implies that it is permitted to have sex with women wherever you like. (Note: generally, Shia Muslims allow anal sex while Sunni Muslims based on Hadith of Mohammed do not allow it. [9].
Anal sex is an issue about which Islamic scholars had many views. It must be differentiated between the sin of the people of Lut, which was between same sex, and this matter which is between husband and wife who are allowed every enjoyment between them, unless we have strong evidence that it is not allowed. Many famous Sunni scholars said that anal sex between husband and wife is allowed. Among these Sunni scholars were: Abdullah Bin Omar, Imam Malik Bin Anas, Zaid Bin Aslam and Naafe? (Al Mughni, by Ibn Qudamah Al-Nisaa?. Same reference mentions that Malik bin Anas used to say about anal sex with the wife: (I do not know any one whom can be trusted in his religion, saying that it is Haraam). These are some more references about allowing anal sex in Sunni books: Saheeh Al-Bukhari; 6: 35, Tafseer Al-Tabari; 2: 233, Siraajul Mureeden by Abu Bakr Ibn Al-Arabi in Tafseer (Fa?atoo Harthakom Anna Shi?tom). Fath Al-Baari, 8:152, Musnad Abi Ya?la; 2: 355, Sharh Ma?ami Al-Aathaar; 3:40-45, Al-Durr Al-Manthoor by Syootee; 1: 638, Minhaaj Al-Sunnah by Ibn Taymeyyah; 2:97 and Al-Majmoo?a by Nawawi; 18: 100. According to Alul Bayt (AS), anal sex with the wife is not Haraam, but it becomes Haraam (forbidden) when she is in her menses, or if she does not agree to it. Still it is disliked (Makrooh) as Ibn Abi Ya?foor asked Imam Ja?far Al-Sadiq (AS) about anal sex with the wife, Imam said: Not Haraam, but I don?t like you to do it.) Wasaa?el Al-Shia; 20: 147. Quranic evidences that anal sex with the wife is allowed is mentioned in a saying of Imam Ja?far Al-Sadiq (AS) when somebody mentioned anal sex with the wife, Imam said: I know no verse in Quran allowing it but one verse (Are you doing anal sex with men leaving your women?) (2: 223). (Wasaa?el Al-Shia: 20: 148 and Tafseer Al-Ayyashi; 1: 111 & 331.) In spite of being allowed, but it is disliked (Makrooh), as the Hadeeth said: No one does it but the lowest of our followers.
Narrated Abdullah bin Abi Ya'foor: I asked Abu Abdullah about approaching women thru their anus, he said: No Problem. He then recited: 2:223 Your women are as tilth unto you, so approach your tilth when (or how) ye will ." [Tafseer al-Ayyashi, vol.1, p.110; Bihaar al-Anwaar Baqir al-Majlisi, vol.23, p.98; al-Burhaan fee Tafseer al-Qur'an: Hashim al-Bahraani, vol.1, p.219; Wasaa'il al-Shi'a: al-Hur al-Amily, vol.3, chpater 73: An-Nikaah wa Aadabuh] [allaahuakbar.net/shiites/KAFI.HTM] AL-KAFI
Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh))
Narrated Nafi': Whenever Ibn 'Umar recited the Qur'an, he would not speak to anyone till he had finished his recitation. Once I held the Qur'an and he recited Surat-al-Baqara from his memory and then stopped at a certain Verse and said, "Do you know in what connection this Verse was revealed? " I replied, "No." He said, "It was revealed in such-and-such connection." Ibn 'Umar then resumed his recitation. Nafi added regarding the Verse:--"So go to your tilth when or how you will" Ibn 'Umar said, "It means one should approach his wife in .." (Volume 6, Book 60, Number 50:).[10]
وفي المغني ج7ص225 : ( ورويت إباحته عن ابن عمر وزيد بن أسلم ونافع ومالك ، وروي عن مالك أنه قال : ما أدركت أحد أقتدي به في ديني يشك في أنه حلال . وأهل العراق من أصحاب مالك ينكرون ذلك واحتج من أجله بقول الله عز وجل {نِسَاؤُكُمْ حَرْثٌ لَكُمْ فَأْتُوا حَرْثَكُمْ أَنَّى شِئْتُمْ}(البقرة/223) وقوله سبحانه {وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِفُرُوجِهِمْ حَافِظُونَ إِلاَّ عَلَى أَزْوَاجِهِمْ أوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَ}(المؤمنون/5-6) ) .
THIS IS IN THE GREAT SUNNI BOOK AL-MUGHNI BI IBN KUDADMA : THE PERMISSIBILITY WAS NARRATED ON IBN OMAR , ZAID IBN ASLAM AND NAFI'I AND MALIK : AND IT'S BEEN BNARRATED ON MALIK THAT HE SAID : I NEVER SPOKE TO SOMEONE I DEEM A ROLE MODEL IN RELIGION WHO DOUBTS THAT IT'S HALAL. [11].
[edit] Anal Oral Intercourse & Shia Site
Answer by Rana Ammar Mazhar 18:24, 3 June 2007 (UTC):
B. Techniques of Foreplay:
As far as the methods of mutual stimulation in foreplay are concerned, the Shariah allows the husband and the wife to see, kiss, touch, smell and stimulate any part of each other's body. Therefore, oral sex, as it is known, is allowed. Imam Musa al-Kazim (a.s.) was once asked, "Can a person kiss his wife's vagina?" The Imam said, "No problem."
The only restriction is that no foreign object should be used. The restriction on the use of foreign objects is based on the following hadith. Ubaydullah bin Zurarah says that he had an old neighbor who owned a young slave-girl. Because of his old age, he could not fully satisfy the young slave-girl during sexual intercourse. She would therefore ask him to place his fingers in her vagina, as she liked it. The old man complied with her wishes even though he did not like this idea. So he requested Ubaydullah to ask Imam Ali ar-Reza (a.s.) about it. When Ubaydullah asked the Imam about it, the Imam said, "There is no problem as long as he uses any part of his own body upon her, but he should not use anything other than his body on her."
Though masturbation (i.e., self-stimulation of one's own sexual organ till emission of semen or orgasm) is not allowed, in the case of married persons, there is no problem if the wife stimulates her husband's penis till the emission of semen or the husband stimulates his wife's vagina till orgasm. This is allowed because it does not come under "self-stimulation;" it is stimulation by a lawful partner.
C. Sexual Intercourse:
Is there any particular position for sexual intercourse, which is forbidden in Islam? No! As far as the basic coital positions are concerned, there are no restrictions. The term 'basic coital positions' denotes the positions known as the man above, face to face, woman above face to face; side position, face to face; rear-entry position in which the husband penetrates the vagina from the rear. Actually, the Shariah has left it on the husband and the wife to explore and experiment as they wish. However, it is makruh to adopt a standing position, or to face the Qiblah or keep it on the backside during the intercourse. It is advisable to refrain from the acrobatic positions given by some sexologists of the East and the West, which might even cause physical harm.
Remember, the basic rule is mutual pleasure and flexibility. If one partner does not like a particular position, then the other should yield to his or her feelings. It is highly emphasized that at the commencement of intercourse the partners should recite Bismillaahir Rah'maanir Rah'eem (In the name of Allah the Beneficent, the Merciful).
D. Anal Intercourse:
The opinions of our mujtahids vary on the permissibility of anal intercourse. The majority of the Shi'ah mujtahids have derived two conclusions: (1) that anal intercourse is not Haraam but strongly disliked (karahatan shadidah) provided the wife agrees to it. (2) and if she does not agree to it, then all mujtahids say that it is precautionarily wajib to refrain from it.
However, during the last decade of his life, Ayatullah al-Khu'i departed from the majority view and gave the ruling that it was precautionarily wajib to abstain from anal intercourse no matter whether the wife agrees to it or not.
Maulana Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi says, "I would strongly advise against anal intercourse," and quotes the saying of Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq and Imam Ali ar-Reza (a.s.) about anal intercourse: "Woman is a means of your pleasure, therefore do not harm her." [12].
[edit] Anal Intercourse & Sunni Site
[21] "(Narrated) Ali bin Ibraaheem from his father from al-Nufaly from As-Sukoony from (Imam) Abu Abdallah [as] said: Amierul-Mu'mineen (Ali) [as] said: (al-Luwaat ma doon ad-dubur, wad-dubur huwal-kufr) Sodomy is in (anything) other than dubur (anal sex), for dubur [has multi meanings] is actually the Kufr (disbelief)". The commentator on al-Kafi wrote: "It is possible to understand (from the statement) that Sodomizing (a man) is permissible" (Al-Kafi (fil Furoo'): Book of Marriage: Chapter of Sodomy, narration 3, vol.5, p.544
[23] "(Narrated) al-Hussain bin Ali bin Yaqteen said: I asked Abul-Hassan about the permissibility for the man to have anal sex with women, he said: It was made halal (permissible) in the Book of Allah, when (Prophet) Lot said: 11:78 Here are my daughters, they are purer for you and he knew it was not the vagina they were after." [Tafseer al-Ayyashi, vol.1, p.157; Bihaar al-Anwaar vol.21, p.98; Tafseer al-Burhaan vol.2, p.230]
- [allaahuakbar.net/allaahu_akbar.htm]
[edit] Ijma & Bukhari Hadith
Ijma of the 2nd-3rd century Sunni scholars is against, but Bukhari Hadith No. 50 is against the Ijma and is not taken out of context, reference. The Blank Space in Arabic & in English translation is for anus. The next Hadith No. 51 is not related to anus as children are not born out of anus.
Narrated Nafi': Whenever Ibn 'Umar recited the Qur'an, he would not speak to anyone till he had finished his recitation. Once I held the Qur'an and he recited Surat-al-Baqara from his memory and then stopped at a certain Verse and said, "Do you know in what connection this Verse was revealed? " I replied, "No." He said, "It was revealed in such-and-such connection." Ibn 'Umar then resumed his recitation. Nafi added regarding the Verse:--"So go to your tilth when or how you will" Ibn 'Umar said, "It means one should approach his wife in .." (Volume 6, Book 60, Number 50), http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/060.sbt.html#006.060.050.
If the Blank Space was for vagina, it could not be blank.
For further details & confirmation, read Urdu page "Anal Sex and Islam" by Dr. Syed Mubin Akhtar at [8] & [9].
[edit] Tempering of on Line Facts
The tempering of the on line fact is against the neutral policy.
[edit] Added tags
Hi, I just tagged this article with contradiction, POV and cleanup tags. It's a bit of a mess right now and reads more like Islamic literature or propaganda, rather than an encyclopedic entry. Here's my reasoning:
[edit] Contradiction
There are a couple of places where an author has added a statement to "correct" the previous statement. This means we now have two conflicting statements. Some consensus needs to be achieved, or we need to find some other way of expressing the two differing without blatant contradiction.
[edit] POV
Ststements like: "The wife has to resist this evil action and refuse to respond to her husband's desire to have anal sex." are completely POV. There are plenty more like this too.
[edit] Cleanup
There are various bolded paragraphs, which I believe should be avoided. There are also confusing statements, such as:
However, there are Ahadith which allows (anus, in Arabic Dubur: “ فِي الدُّبُر ” ) sex, one in Sunni sect and two in Shia sect. In Sunni sect, a high rated Hadith Book Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60: Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet), Hadith No. 50, [6] allows it, its authenticity and anal sex concept is conformed by a Hadith of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11: Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Hadith Number 2159 [7], whereas the said Hadith itself disapproves along with many other Ahadith in other books except Sahih Bukhari.
Straussian (talk) 04:48, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Sources
Most sources in this article are primary, and hence likely violate OR. I ask users to provide secondary sources for the material, and to source all material.Bless sins (talk) 15:47, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
- I am not fond of the sources provided for the Sistani position. What's the deal, exactly? The websites linked to quote him without themselves providing a reference. Mrbluesky (talk) 14:44, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
- I've removed the sources and added the [citation needed] tag there. Hoping someone will come up with something on the statement in Anal Sex and Shia Islam InshaAllah. Peace 'Abd el 'Azeez (talk) 05:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
- I've got another thing to say about Sources, this one's for Imam Maliki View. There are four sources there, of which the first leads to a website named tolueislam and the second to ourbeacon. TolueIslam is a site about the views of a certain G.A.Pervez (A highly controversial person who denied the Hadith i.e. the teachings of the Prophet Muhammed PBUH. See Ghulam Ahmed Pervez on Wikipedia; besides, Imam Maliki and Imam Bukhari were both renowned Hadith scholars). Quoting Pervez, (who himself denied these two scholars' authenticity of Hadith,) on their views about this topic simply falls under the category POV. OurBeacon too seems POV because of the fact that it is run by someone called Dr. Shabbir; his personal views on this topic cannot be taken to be those of Islam; MOREOVER the PDF reference from his website for the second link (i.e. for Imam Bukhari) leads to a HTTP404 Page. The third reference (i.e. the one next to (eelaaj) is licit.) too leads to a 404 Page. The last reference is from a site called TheModernReligion () however the article it refers to doesn't provide any references of its own and more importantly it DOESN'T mention Imam Maliki's name anywhere at all! It says "Hanbali books mention that it is lawful for a husband to < suppressed to save space by elAzeez >. They also mention that while anal sex is absolutely unlawful, it is lawful to place a finger on the anus as long as it does not penetrate.". I am thus removing the section in its entirety until someone comes forth by with some reliable sources for these claims. (InshaAllah) Peace. 'Abd el 'Azeez (talk) 07:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
