Talk:Islamic dietary laws

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-02-08. The result of the discussion was Keep.

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[edit] Comments

This excellent article was really helpful to me. My esteemed brother-in-law is a Shiite Muslim, and I don't wish to accidentally offend him. Meat in his house is halal. I don't know if he personally accepts kosher meat as within halal, or if he is more strict than that. I do know that he shops for meat at Muslim establishments which follow halal slaughtering practices.

I'd like to see the Islamic point of view on tobacco, marihuana, coffee (a susbtitute of alcohol according to its article), tea and insects. Are they all halal? I also miss a reference to Ramadan and the Lamb feast day or other sacrifices. -- Error 01:46, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Indeed. I also believe there's a catagory of "so-so" things between halal and haram, which the article doesn't cover. I'd also like to see more details of butchery practices (someone told me that the blood mustn't drain over the animal's body, so it is laid on its side before its throat is cut). I'd also like to know if there are parallels to various kosher practices with regard to preparation (e.g. rules against mixing meat and dairy, even sharing utensils or fridges between the two). I think kosher also specifies that a baker's oven has to be lit by someone in particular (I think by a jew) for the bread to be kosher - do muslim dietary laws (or practices) have something like this?

As far as I know, there is no direct reference in Quran banning tobacco, marijuana or coffe, but in Shiite Islam the many--most of the--rules are set by referring to a Mujtahid. So, there might not be a fixed opinion. The consensus, as far as I know, is that tobacco is not haram, marijuana is haram, and coffee is not haram.

The category of so-so things includes "mobah" that is better to be done, and "makruh" that is better not to be done. The kosher rules in general are stricter than those of Islamic dietery rules.

I should add that I do not have detailed or specific information. Perhaps you should refer to a muslim teachings web site. Bhs 12:22 pm 4 May 2004 (PDT).

I noticed that there is another entry on this subject under Halaal, and alternate spelling which also mentions the spelling used for this page. It would be good if someone would combine the two into one article using the most-correct spelling. I live in a very Muslim area of Toronto and I've seen the single-a spelling a lot, but never the double-a. It would also do well for the resulting article to be reverse-linked to Kashrut and Category:Diets. TimothyPilgrim 18:11, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)

For Muslims it is meaningless to speculate about the reason for the dietary laws because Allah knows best.

Drugs are seen as Haraam by virtually all Muslims, not just Shia. The Qur'an bans drugs here: And do not destroy yourselves. (Qur'an 4:29) I'm not sure that's a ban on drugs as much as it is a condemnation of suicide. Many drugs are not "destructive" per se.

Also, in Shia Islam, the Laws aren't "set" by the Mujtahid, they are transmitted. That means that the Mujtahid tells you the Law and how it applies in your situation. The Mujtahid doesn't make up the Law, though. Armyrifle 01:44, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Healthy Diet?

The Healthy Diet section quotes the Quran (6:141), but I'm not sure it is assumed to mean what this section implies. I have always thought this verse was more about wasting food, ie. throwing it away, rather than over-eating. I would like to see some sort of evidence of this interpretation by a known scholar.

[edit] can somebody tell about roosters

can somebody pleaaaaase tell me about rooster or hen as haraam according to strict quran laws. i know it is commonly eaten, but as i read the quran and other books, i find enough evidence to support that rooster is haraam since it has talons and it eats small organisms. please reply on my talk page.

and if u can, confirm that from someone who has read quran himself too. nids 11:40, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is chicken allowed?

The article states that Muslims are not allowed to eat omnivores. However, I belive (please correct me if I am wrong) that some Muslims do eat Chicken. Chicken are listed as omnivore in the article Omnivore, however. So what is right and what is wrong here? Torben.green 16:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article needed? Opinions on deletion

I want to know other people's opinion regarding the deletion of this article. What can be found in this article that can't be found in Halal or Dhabiha. The latter articles are much more complete and, well, "better" than this one. What do you say?Starwarp2k2 03:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Seconded. It seems absurd to have both this and Halal. I was going to complain about the self-contradiction in the paragraph about whether it's agreed that meat slaughtered by non-Muslims can never be Halal, but frankly it seems pointless to fix it when the article is basically redundant anyway. --Oolong 23:28, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Wait, hang on, apparently Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Islamic dietary laws concluded that it should be kept, in that two people disagreed and hence no consensus was reached. I think this is stupid, and it should probably be re-nominated but I'm too sleepy to do it now. --Oolong 23:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
The reason for the Keep vote seems to be to keep this as an umbrella topic, I would therefore contend that the specifics on this page should be removed since it is repitioin at best, and conflicting at worse (and it does conflict with the Halal page in a few places) dk4 (talk) 20:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] We?

"In the light of the above-mentioned Fatwas, it’s clear that selling pork is never deemed permissible, under any circumstances, either to Muslims or to non-Muslims. However, as we know that Islam does not stipulate rigid rulings or teachings in the sense of making things difficult for its followers, it leaves room to flexibility as regards certain situations that may warrant excuse. Selling pork to non-Muslims in the West falls in this category. But we must stress that this is only under extreme necessities, and necessity must be put within its domain."

'never permissible'? 'we'? These statements are not neutral. not even close. This section must be reworked. I won't touch it for now, as I know little about the subject matter, but if it dosen't get re-edited to be neutral, it's got to be deleted.

I agree to the extent that this section is very unencyclopaedic, and even written in the first person. Someone should tag this entire article, for it needs substantial work..if not deletionStarwarp2k2 11:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Not only poorly written, the "Selling Pork to Non-Muslims" section is not about dietary laws since it just deals with the commerce of Pork. I removed it. dk4 (talk) 20:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discrepancy regarding shellfish

I just noticed that the intro to this article says "... the majority of Muslims consider all shellfish (including crabs, lobsters, shrimp, crayfish, and all non-poisonous molluscs) to be halal.", and the subsection on Dhabiĥa: Islamic slaughter says "... shellfish and scaleless fishes such as catfish are harām'" I'm not Muslim, so I don't know about this. -- Boracay Bill 13:31, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


This article could do with a major rewrite - on the one hand it makes sweeping statements (overeating is haram) while nitpicking other non issues (fish with scales or without) and still leaves readers confused about common food like poultry (halal BTW) moreover it does not address the fundamental Islamic prohibition on eating carrion (animals dead of other causes).ZerothMe (talk) 22:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Addressing Some Issues (a Sunni perspective)

[edit] Non-Scaled Fish... Islamic vs. Kosher Law

The reference to scaleless fish, catfish, crabs, lobsters and shellfish being haram is inaccurate/misleading. There is authentic hadith (tradition of the prophet) which quotes him stating that (all) food from the ocean is halal.

The prohibitions against catfish, shellfish and scaleless fish are edicts of kosher law (kashrut). It may seem logical that some muslims may choose to be 'careful' and 'on the safe side' by following these rules. This is because Jews have lived alongside Muslims (and christians) in the Arab world for centuries. There is a fine line, however between muslims 'playing it safe' and their following the edicts of another religion. Muslims (I am one of them) are ordered to follow the good teachings of other religions ONLY when they do not contradict with Islamic teachings and principals. In this case, the Kosher law prohibiting certain animals contradicts the hadith stating that all food from the ocean is halal (to Muslims).

[edit] Weighing Benefit v. Harm in Islamic Jurisprudence

Muslims believe that Islamic Law regarding food is based on science and logic, but divinely revealed by Allah. As Allah is the Creator, these laws are in accordance with the best benefit to mankind, given His infinit knowledge of the natural order (the creation). This sense of a higher order is applied in the practice of the religion both on a inter-human level (man's relationship with others in society), and on a individual level (in the best interests of the individual), and with the natural world... the other creations of Allah (the environment, the animal and plant kingdoms).

Muslims believe that Allah's instructions to mankind are based on the idea of balancing [societal and personal] benefit against [societal and personal] harm. Many of the laws regarding food, the prohibition against eating dead meat (not slaughtered), blood, alcohol, and (under debate) by extension tobacco are based on the benefit v. harm equation, given His intimate knowledge of what is best for humankind. Much of Islamic revelation (whether hadith or qur'an), restricting or advocating a given item has been backed up by modern science.

An example of this can be applied is weighing the general law against a specific restriction. For example, it has already been stated that all food from the ocean is halal. So how would Fubu (blowfish) be classified, as it has the potential to cause paralysis and death? This is where jurisprudence comes into play. Where the (potential or actual) harm outweighs the good, then that item is prohibited. This would be in line with the Islamic prohibition against harming oneself.

[edit] Islamic Food (and other) Restrictions and Kashrut (Kosher) Overlaps

There are some places where Kosher and Islamic law regarding food do overlap, as would be expected. An overview of Islamic restrictions are as followed (with Kashrut parallels noted):

- Eating food that has been offered in sacrifice to a false diety (ie. not Allah). [also Kashrut]

A Note: The Catholic Eucharist would fall under this catagory, as Muslims are monotheists and do not believe that Jesus is God or the Son of God. But meat offered as sacrifice to YHWH in a Jewish sacrifice would be permissible, because YHWH is the same God as Allah (the God of Abraham, Isaac and Ismael);

- Eating the dead (land animals struck by cars, strangled, cooked alive or drowned) [also Kashrut];

- Eating or touching swine or the products of swine (pig, boar). [Also Kashrut]

A Note: This includes gelatin (unless it is fish gelatin. If not explicitly stated, this can be found out by checking if an item with gelatin listed on its ingredients is marked as Kosher.)

- Eating or drinking the blood of (any) animal (bludwurst) [Also Kashrut];

A Note: muslims regularly clean meat in vinegar or another acid to remove surface blood and draw out impurities before cooking. There is a parallel between this and the Kosher salting of meat.

- Eating 'creeping and crawling' things (insects, salamanders, frogs, snails, etc.);

A Note: a notable exception to this is the Arabian locust, another parallel to Kashrut.

- Eating the flesh of donkeys (and horses). [Also Kashrut via 'cloven hoof' prohibition] This is based on the hadith of the Prophet;

- The meat of predators and hunters, such as cat, dog, bear, alligator (they are not marine);

A Note: Owning and touching a dog are permissible, but a Muslim must wash up to purify him/herself after handling dogs because it breaks their wudu, or religious cleanliness, needed for salat (prostration prayer). Along the same lines, muslims cannot pray in a place where dog hair is present, therefore dogs are mostly kept outside for protection and to aid in hunting. Some Western commentators on the news channels mistakenly believe that Muslims think dogs are evil or that they're afraid of dogs because they fail to understand why Muslims avoid contact with dogs.

- Birds, namely, chickens and other poultry, with the exception of birds of prey (eagles, hawks, robins) and scavengers (buzzards) are widely accepted as halal. While they have claws they do not have TALONS -- the sign of HUNTING birds. Having said that, there are some people who find poultry distasteful.

- Eating human and primate meat or by-products is haram. [Also Kashrut]

- Consuming alcohol or products sourced from alcohol (ethanol), such as beer, fake-beer, flavoring extracts, certain methods of cooking that employ ethanol (flambee, fondue, etc.) and wine vinegars. And, handling, selling or otherwise engaging in commerce (stock trading) in the alcohol trade.

A Note: There is hadith where the Prophet prohibited two (poor) orphan brothers from selling their only inheritance, a cask of wine left to them by their father, or turning the wine to vinegar, or selling the cask's wood for firewood. Alcohol use was gradually banned during the lifetime of the prophet to prevent sudden hardship on the Arabs who were both the inventors of and major consumers of (and addicted to) alcoholic products.

[edit] Are edible kelps halal? (Wakame, agar, etc.)

There is a debate among Muslims on the state of shellfish, but what about edible kelps? Kelps are not usually considered animal or fish and considered to be closer to vegetables. I feel that the lack of mention is probably from unfamiliarity with them rather than being none-halal. --Revth 05:21, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Kelp is considered halal, as are algae, mushrooms... —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZerothMe (talk • contribs) 22:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Surah 16:115

"He only made forbidden for you what is already dead, and blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to any other than God. But whoever is forced to, without disobedience or transgression, then God is Forgiving, Merciful".

Innama harrama AAalaykumualmaytata waalddama walahma alkhinzeeri wamaohilla lighayri Allahi bihi famani idturra ghayra baghinwala AAadin fa-inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun

I've read Quran and am a bit confused about this verse, He only made forbidden for you what is already dead, if we read this the other way around, does it not mean, "He has allowed you to eat what is alive". Vegetables and fruits are alive when they are cut from the plant, so according to me only that's what Allah has permitted to eat. I've asked few of my friends who follow Islam about this. They seem to get confused. One can ask any dietitian, only fruits and vegetables when eaten raw has the best effect on ones health. Food in all other format has their effects. As per my understanding one should then only eat Vegetables (without cooking) and fruits (raw). BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

(Qur'an 6:141) It is He Who produceth gardens, with trellises and without, and dates, and tilth with produce of all kinds, and olives and pomegranates, similar (in kind) and different (in variety): eat of their fruit in their season, but render the dues that are proper on the day that the harvest is gathered. But waste not by excess: for Allah loveth not the wasters. (Qur'an 6:141)
I get the same when I read this 6:141 too.BalanceΩrestored Talk
"already dead" - meaning that which wasn't slaughtered for food, but dies in some other manner, such as natural causes, killed by another animal, road kill, etc.JackieRipper (talk) 19:25, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Now which dictionary says that? "Already dead" means, something that's naturally dead. If you cut a male goat no matter after following the rules of halal, but the time you consume it, it's "already dead". Remember this sentence is given along with forbidding eating "pig" and should be also regarded "Haram". Again only allah knows what's the truth, but this sentence is very apparent suggesting not to eat something that's "already dead" and it's not accompanied with stating those additional reference you just gave.BalanceΩrestored Talk 11:01, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Only in case of fruits (most of the fruits), the life is inside the hard covering of the fruit and when fruit is eaten without disturbing the seed (life), it does not harm it at all. For my understanding this is how the above verse is mentioned "Eat that's Alive", that means not killing/injuring the life. In fact it's natural for the fully ripen fruit to have someone eat the fruit pulp which gives a chance for the seed to get out of the natural cover and this allows the seed to grow again to a new plant. And someone eating the "fruit Alive" does give a chance for the plant to grow, as eating the fruit is an essential process in the plant life cycle. So, "Eating Alive" should be now 100% appropriate for anyones logic. Again, only Allah know what's written, I have only quoted what I've felt.BalanceΩrestored Talk 04:43, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Again, only what I just quoted about eating fruits does not voilate anyother verses in Quran that refers to injustise and freedom. On the other hand eating animal meat, no matter after following the rules of hallal does voilate verses related to injustice. Again, I am a man, so do not know the truth. I've only written what was very apparant. Remember, it's only eating a fruit that's fallen from the tree 0% sin, as it does not harm the plant at all, the new born plant is alive inside the seed, it infact helps the life inside the seed to be born, and does not voliate any verse in Quran, while eating an animal after killing it does contradict the above verse Surah 16:115, as you are eating something that is already dead when it reaches your mouth. BalanceΩrestored Talk 12:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)