Talk:Islamic calendar

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[edit] Reason for prohibition of intercalation of months

Does anyone have a good explanation as to why this was forbidden by Mohammed? Was it to reduce the importance of the Kalammas?

[edit] Conversions

What is the present year number in the Islamic calendar? 1379? A sentence in the text like the year 2000 in the Gregorian calendar was 1378 (or what?) in the Islamic might be good.

Of course, when does the Islamic calendar change years? Certainly this changes in respect to the Gregorian calendar as the Islamic months process in relation to the Gregorian. So maybe a page that said 2000 in the Gregorian was 1378 in the Islamic until Sept. (or whenever) and was 5709 (or whatever) in Hebrew until .... etc. with other calendars. Anyone know what these years are?

The present year (beginning in 2001 AD) is 1422. This is larger than 1378, because the year always has just 12 lunar months and so is about 11 days shorter than the Gregorian Calendar year.

[edit] 12 months

Is there an English word meaning "an interval of twelve lunar months"?

It's called a lunar year.

Lunar years in some calendars (lunisolar calendars) can be 13 or even 14 months long. --NealMcB 21:39, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

MOnday January 9, 2006 coincides with the 9th day of Dhul-HIja (the 12th month) of 1426 of the Islamic calendar. www.moonsighting.com is a good website for islamic calendars and you may also find softwares that does conversion to Julian years.

[edit] Age in islamic years or solar years?

When a Mussulman states his age, does he use solar years, or dozens of lunar months?

I'd say it depends on the location of the person, but most Muslims state their age in solar years. It really depends on whether the government and institutions of the country they live in require ages to be stated relative to an Islamic or Gregorian calendar.

Which countries or institutions ask for Islamic ages? Under what circumstances do people celebrate their own Islamic birthdays? --NealMcB 21:39, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I have never heard of anyone reporting their age in lunar years, but I may be wrong. The birthday of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), however, is usually noted by the Islamic calendar date. Although he was born (most likely) on 20 April 570 CE, but Muslims who decide to celebrate his birthday celebrate it as 12 Rabi' al-Awwal which does not actually correspond with 20 April 570 CE. joturner 22:17, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

The Islamic Calendar is used mainly for recording events, such as Imam Hussein's (as) martyrdom or the Prophet Muhammad's (as) Birthday. Only places like Saudi Arabia uses the Islamic Calendar as their main calendar. So Muslims living in America, or in Iran, or in Europe, etc. would use the Calendar that their resident country uses. Mainly. Armyrifle 00:07, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Islamic Calendar

Islamic Calendar is used only for Ramzan Fasting, Haj pilgrimage and Eid festivities. For all other purposes Gregorian calendar is used. Quran regards moon and the sun merely as sign for counting time and days as follows:

002.189 They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs to mark fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage....

010.005 It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.

At the dawn of Islam there were no printed calendars, no watches and the concept of hours and minutes developed in some 600 years later. The dates were counted by the year of elephants by watching moon and time by the movement of sun. According to old traditions the advice of Prophet Mohammed was as follows:

(1) Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The Prophet said, "We are an illiterate nation; we neither write, nor know accounts. The month is like this and this, i.e. sometimes of 29 days and sometimes of thirty days." (2) Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet or Abu-l-Qasim said, "Start fasting on seeing the crescent (of Ramadan), and give up fasting on seeing the crescent (of Shawwal), and if the sky is overcast (and you cannot see it), complete thirty days of Sha'ban."

Around 9th centuries Muslim astronomers mapped movement of stars, sun and moon and found that the moon is about one fourth of the size of the earth and moves around Earth at an average distance of 238,857 miles, and completes one revolution around Earth in a little more than 27 days. And deep in West of Mecca the moon tends to appear a day earlier and deep in East a day or two later. As Islam had spread in different continents and the means of communications were not swift, it was difficult to determine as to when the new moon was sighted at Mecca. Therefore, Fatmid Caliphs and Imam prescribed a calendar in 10th century developed by the great astronomer Albairooni that dispensed with the need for actual moon sighting in order to maintain uniformity in Islamic world.

That calendar is still used in Egypt, Syria and most Arab world as also Bohra community in India and Pakistan and they do not see any need for sighting moon even for Ramzan. But Saudi bigots insist that the calendar should be adjusted every month based on moon sighting in Mecca. And orthodox Ulemas in India and Pakistan and North America insist that fasting and Eid must be based on moon sighting in their own country.

Bigoted Ulemas fail to realize that nowhere in Holy Quran the actual sighting of moon has been made mandatory and the Traditions (Hadiths) do not prescribe a categorical practice for all times to come and that advice was meant for Meccans of that time who used to count time and dates by movement of moon and sun and the calendars and wathces were not available to them. That is why in many Muslim communities the calendar is adjusted every month and at least two to three different sets are followed in different countries. The Muslims who do not believe in the monthly adjustment are in minority.

Shah N. Khan http://www.magway.net/paklink

[edit] Observances during the Islamic year

An outsider sees that the section was written by a Sunni partisan, from the way the Asherah is set apart as the observance of a "sect." The days of the month need to be given whatever convention of transliteration has been agreed on at Wikipedia, and linked to their entries. Not for an infidel, eh! Wetman 09:27, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Seasons and farming

Question: IF the Islamic calander can not be used to determine season then how do farmers sow the seeds in different Islamic countries.

Today I can understand that they can use the Gregorian calendar because both are available, but how was the situation a centuries back?

They used the Julian calendar, or in Egypt the Coptic calendar. Whatever their religion, a farmer needs a solar calendar to work with as well. - Mustafaa 19:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Define AH

Somehow "AH" needs to be defined before it is used, perhaps with a reference to the section of the article where it is explained fully. I was confused when I first saw AH. I'm not sure how to do this best. Bruce 20:11, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Extent of Use

The article can also include info like: Do governments of Muslim countries use it? School? Daily life? Newspaper? etc. --Menchi 22:43, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Question

What's the Gregorian equivalent of "4 Shawal 1422 H"? I worked it out to be the 4th of October, 2001 AD. Is that correct? I was expecting a different answer. Khoda Hafez -- Tompsci 00:53, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Using my own personal calculations... 4 Shawwal 1426 was November 6, 2005. Four Gregorian years earlier would put it at November 6, 2001. Fourty-two days later (four times 10.5) to help with the Islamic-Gregorian offset would mean December 18, 2001. Of course, that's my personal estimate.

To go along with that, the December 2001 new moon occured late on December 14 GMT, putting 1 Shawwal on December 15 and 4 Shawwal on December 18, in agreement with my estimate. Locations in the Americas and locations where the moon was not visible would have put 1 Shawwal on December 16, meaning 4 Shawwal would be on December 19. Therefore, I'd put 4 Shawaal on December 18, 2001 or December 19, 2001, depending on location. joturner 01:07, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

According to the external weblinks given at the end of the main page, it was Wednesday, December 19, 2001, in the Umm al-Qura calendar. If one of the tabular Islamic calendars was used it was either the same date or the next day, Thursday, December 20, 2001.

[edit] Imamat Day

What and when is Imamat Day ? 16th or 25th of Muharram ? It's on Template: Muslimholidays, but I can't find much info in Wikipedia. -- PFHLai 17:57, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date Formats

Question: How do you write an Islamic Date? For example, some of the traditional Gregorian calendar notations would be MM-DD-CCYY or DD-MM-CCYY.

I believe I undersand the DAY MONTHNAME AH format (long form. e.g "1 Muharram 1427"). What is a shorthand format? Is it Right to Left or Left to Right? I'm currently under the assumption that the format would be (for example) 9 XII 1427 (for the start of Hajj). Is that correct?

Any input would be appreciated.

--Mkamensek 20:45, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Week: Saturday to Friday or Sunday to Saturday?

Which weekday is considered to begin a new week in the Islamic calendar? This text gives Saturday (so that the Friday of gathering is then the last day), others give Sunday (as in Judaism and Christianity) -- 145.254.131.197 18:12, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

as the weekday names suggest it, the week start on Sunday (al-ahad means "the first") : Monday is "ithnayn" (the second), Tuesday is "thulatha'" (the third), Wednesday is "arbi`a'" (the fourth) and Thursday is "khamis" (the fifth)

HC 10:41, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting note

After playing with an Islamic/Gregorian calendar converter, I thought people might be interested in the fact that "1 January 20875 AD" is "9 Muharram 20875 AH." --Saforrest 17:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

can you give us the URL for this calendar converter?

thanks Aamir Ali

So, January 5th would be Muharam 5th, day/month/year 5/1/20875 AD = 5/1/20875 AH I find that a little hard to belive, because the Islamic calender is around 11 days shorter then the Gregorian. In fact, you becaome 32 years old in the Gregorian calender around the same day you bacome 33 years old in the Islamic calendar! -- KMF

No! 1/1/20875 AD = 9/1/20875 AH does NOT imply 5/1/20875 AD = 5/1/20875 AH . However some Islamic years would start with the same day as a Gregorian year just by chance. They would occur on average once every three or four centuries. Karl 11:45, 31 Oct 2006 UT

I don't know why KMF thinks the Islamic calendar counts backwards Nil Einne 10:53, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Although KMF's dates are wrong are Karl noted, KMF's other statements are correct. But he doesn't mention counting backwards, just counting faster. — Joe Kress 01:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Holy Months

"The three successive holy months are Dhu al-Qada, Dhu al-Hijja, and Muharram, thus excluding an intercalary month before Muharram. The single holy month is Rajab."

"Of all the months in the Islamic calendar, Ramadan is the most sacred."

I'm confused. Is Ramadan not one of the holy months then?

I know nothing about this topic, so forgive my ignorance. However, I found this confusing. I'm sure there is a simple explanation, which is obvious to someone familiar with the topic, but it doesn't make sense to me that the most sacred month isn't one of the four holy months. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.45.72.49 (talk)

Very good question! The four holy months mentioned by Muhammad were holy before he established Islam, while the Kaaba still had idols before it. During those four months, Muslims could not fight Pagans. Ramadan is now the most sacred because of the fast held during its daylight hours, and because the first verses of the Qur'an were revealed to Muhammad near the end of that month (the Night of Power or Laylat al-Qadr). — Joe Kress 19:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I think smoking during Ramadan daylight is also not done, at least around the Gulf. I'm not sure it's worth mentioning. Nice article. 154.5.18.29 06:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move external links

I suggest to move the recently added external links

to the Ramadan page where they properly belong.

I am not so happy with one of these links which finds it necessary to predict hellfire to those who do not follow its injunctions - perhaps this one should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vgent (talk • contribs)

Be bold and do it yourself. — Joe Kress 23:01, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

O.k. - have done so — Vgent 8:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] arithmetic

"There exists a variation of the Islamic calendar known as the Tabular Islamic calendar in which months are worked out by arithmetic rules rather than by observation or astronomical calculation. It has a 30-year cycle with 11 leap years of 355 days and 19 years of 354 days. In the long term, it is accurate to one day in about 2500 years. It also deviates up to about 1 or 2 days in the short term."

When you say that it deviates 1 day in 2500 yrs, do I have it right that this is respect to the ordinary Muslim calendar, not to the common one, of 365¼ days?DGG 03:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Of course. There is also a short term deviation from the ordinary Islamic Calendar. Karl 10:50, 1 November 2006.

[edit] Iranian calendar

I've corrected the Persian in the lead paragraph, & added a link in the "See also" section. You might also want to mention somewhere in the text that Iran currently uses a solar calendar dating from the Hegira. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Does The Early Belief in Moon or Sun Gods Influence A Region's Method of Time Keeping?

Does the early Arabian and Persian belief in moon or sun god/s determine, whether a lunar or solar calendar was eventually was used?

I think that people originally used the moon as a measure of time because it is easier to tell time by, especially in areas of the world without seasons, or if you are traveling and you don't have a calendar on hand. For example, if I look up at the moon one night and see a full moon then I know it is half way through the lunar month. Another example is I can say, "Oh, that happened two moons ago," or something like that and I mean two months ago. You can't really tell time by the sun on the fly like that because the sun never changes. The only evidence that the year is changing, using the sun as a guide, is to notice that the days are getting longer or shorter. It's a lot easier to use; anyone can tell time. You don't have to depend on priests and kings telling you what time of the year it is, like the Egyptians, Mayans, Romans, etc. all did.

Yghannam (talk) 12:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A remark or two

The bulk I eventually put under "The Umm al-Qura calendar" has really exhausted my patience. It should be edited for more readability.
What is with the (long form) names of months? Based on my Islamic education I can think of no basis for it whatsoever.

---AMSA83 22:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Malaysia

Some clarification is needed for Malaysia. I'm not an expert so I won't be changing the article but moon sighting is still used, at least for certain months like Ramadhan. For example see Eid ul-Fitr. I don't believe it's used for all months though since I believe Awal Muharram and the Prophet Muhammad's birthday don't seem to depend intrinsicly on sightings Nil Einne 10:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Agricultural events

How could the timing of vital agricultural events (plantings, harvests etc.) be maintained under a purely lunar calendar? Was there traditionally widespread use of alternative calendars or other season-determining methods for agricultural purposes?--Pharos 10:23, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Apparently, the knowledge about agricultural work timing was not required nor necessary. Instead, you had the vital information about when to loot your neighbours (months forbidden for fighting and the others when the fight was allowed). Versus3 (talk) 12:49, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hilal Sighting

Just so you know, Sunni muslims still follow the Sunnah of the Prophet(saw) that says to spot the hilal, not to use calculations. I am here in Texas and spotted the Hilal for both the beginning and inshAllah will do the same for the end.--168.215.245.170 20:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Map

Is there a map of the countries that use this Calendar system? Sseballos ^{(Talk to Me)} 22:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

This sentence probably doesn't deserve to be in the introduction in favor of having only a summary of the calendar and moving on to explain the Hijra.

Because this lunar year is about 11 days shorter than the solar year, Islamic holy days, although celebrated on fixed dates in their own calendar, usually shift 11 days earlier each successive solar year, such as a year of the Gregorian calendar.

--Ashawley 14:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Astronomical, juridical and political considerations

To complement the existing text, I have added a detailed discussion of astronomical considerations, theological positions, and the efforts of Muslim countries to develop a global Islamic calendar. The text I have contributed respects all applicable copyright rules and raises no problems of this type.Aster77 (talk) 17:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

A reader identified as Itaqallah has cancelled on May 19, 2008 the whole of the additions which I made to this article, on the grounds that this was like a personal essay, based on unverified facts and presenting personal opinions instead of facts. This statement is totally unjustified. The main points of this article are copied from the best sources on the subject, with detailed references to support them and links to sites with the sources, when available on the web. If Itaqallah contests any facts in the article, he should list them in the discussion page, explain his position and present the required corrections. If he wants to edit the text, to improve it, or shorten some developments, he's free to do so, if he masters the subject. But it is very "cavalier" for anyone to cancel such a complete discussion of important issues, with a mere fuzzy explanation that "these are unverified facts and opinions".

Therefore, can Itaqallah list separately each fact which, in his opinion, is wrong or unverified and provide support for his view, and suggest appropriate corrections ? Then everybody who wishes to can participate in making any required changes in order to improve the article. Aster77 (talk) 08:36, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Reader Vgent has also suppressed on May 19, 2008 all the additions I did to the original article, on the grounds that these unnecessarily long sections had been taken without proper acknowledgment from the site islamiccalendar.blogspot.com. The sections may be long and I will work on them to shorten and to make them fit better with the encyclopedia format and style. But anyone is welcome to participate in the editing of the text, rather than suppressing it completely. As for the acknowledgements, I have included all due acknowledgements in footnote 20

Aster77 (talk) 15:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Much of your content appears to consist of original research wherein you make personal deductions which are either source-based or not so (either way it is still unacceptable). This is not neutral, nor does it conform to verifiability policy which says we stick to representing precisely what the source says, and, if it's an opinion, ensuring correct attribution is given. In many areas in fact the quality of sourcing (i.e. "moonsighting.com", "islamonline.net") is less than adequate. Statements like "In order to understand how the Islamic calendar works, it is necessary to distinguish it from the lunar calendar," "In the 70-odd years since their publication, Shakir’s conclusions have not been refuted by any Muslim jurist." and so on may belong on a personal blog, but not on an encyclopedia.

I should also suggest that you not revert any further in light of the three revert rule, and that you are far more likely to move forward in this dispute if you discuss controversial material first before reinserting it. ITAQALLAH 22:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Response to the observations made by ITAQALLAH

Your insistence on stopping my WHOLE contribution from appearing in the article, rather than EDITING IT to make it fit better with the format and style of an encyclopedia is puzzling to me. I would expect, from a participant in Wikipedia activities, that he will help improve the text, not suppress it.

You suppressed the section on “astronomical considerations” which I had added to the text of the article, on the grounds that it belongs to “original research”.

But, this section contains only two paragraphs which present FACTS, not original research. The first para presents ASTRONOMICAL FACTS.

The second para also presents FACTS. It explains how Muslim countries proceed to determine the beginning of months. It explains the difficulty in observing the crescent. This, in turn, explains why it is seen on different days in different areas of the world. This is why the first of Ramadan may be celebrated on three, four or even five different days in the Muslim world. The same applies to all other months.

So, Itaqallah, do you really think these facts belong in the category of "original research" unfit to appear in an encyclopedia? Or do you think these facts do not need to be explained to the readers of Wikipedia?

I want to insist on the following points :

At no point have you singled out a single information in the text I contributed to say that IT IS WRONG.

At no time did you say that this information was IRRELEVANT to the subject of the article.

All you found to justify the suppression is that it is “original research”, but without bothering to justify your statement.

I will not go on to discuss similarly all the other sections you suppressed. I expect you to read them again and explain precisely, to all the readers, why they don’t belong in Wikipedia.

One final observation: You referred to the 3-revert rule. Does it also apply to you?

Aster77 (talk) 07:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes it does, though I am nowhere near violating it. Your personal essay - and that's what it reads as - is not really encyclopedic in tone. It is opinionated, it makes inferences and links not explicitly and positively verified by the sources (i.e. negative assertions), it employs sources of dubious quality, and in some areas employs no sourcing at all. These are systemic issues, I don't have to point out every sentence for you when so many of them suffer from the same problems. Your claim that it's just about whether the text is right or wrong is highly superficial, and ultimately a red herring. If it doesn't conform to the core content policies of this encyclopedia, which I have taken the liberty to link above for you, then it will almost certainly be removed or heavily cropped. You make things difficult for yourself and others when you insist on reinserting large chunks of text. I have in fact given an example of the kind of original research plaguing the text in my above comment, but if you don't see where or understand how/why it's original research then I'd recommend you revise the relevant policy. Likewise, if you can't see how my objections apply to the text you've pasted below, then you need to review policy. ITAQALLAH 20:15, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I also found the following message from you in my user talk page:

"You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Islamic calendar. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution". ITAQALLAH 22:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

You accuse me of engaging in an edit war, when it is YOU who suppress my text every time I add it ?

Your behaviour is extremely puzzling to me. Who gave you the sovereign authority to censor texts the way you do, based on your own personal criteria Aster77 (talk) 07:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia core content policies, namely WP:NPOV, WP:V, and WP:NOR, are not my "own personal criteria." ITAQALLAH 20:15, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed additions to the Islamic calendar article

Over the past few days, I have several times added some sections to this article, but some people are vehemently opposed to their publication and cancel them immediately, arguing that they read like an essay, that they are opinionated or unbalanced in their presentation of the issues. One of these people said that I should discuss this "controversial" material in the talk page before trying to insert it in the article.

I have therefore thoroughly revised these sections, taking into consideration all the criticisms that had been expressed.

Following the advice I received, I am presenting here to the readers of the talk page the material I want to include in the article. I welcome their observations, suggestions for change of content, editing improvements, etc. I will take their views into account in finalizing the text, before putting it in the article.

Thank you all

Aster77 (talk) 11:15, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Astronomical considerations

The Islamic calendar is not to be confused with the lunar calendar. The latter is based on a year of 12 months adding up to 354.37 days. Each lunar month begins at the time of the monthly "conjunction", when the Moon is located on a straight line between the Earth and the Sun. The month is defined as the average duration of a rotation of the Moon around the Earth (29.53 days). By convention, months of 30 days and 29 days succeed each other, adding up over two successive months to 59 full days. This leaves only a small monthly variation of 44 mn to account for, which adds up to a total of 24 hours (i.e. the equivalent of one full day) in 2.73 years. To settle accounts, it is sufficient to add one day every three years to the lunar calendar, in the same way that one adds one day to the Gregorian calendar, every four years.

The Islamic calendar, however, is based on a different set of conventions. Each Islamic State proceeds with its own monthly observation of the new moon (or, failing that, awaits the completion of 30 days) before declaring the beginning of a new month on its territory.

But, the lunar crescent becomes really visible only some 18 hours after the conjunction, and only subject to the existence of a number of favourable conditions relative to weather, time, geographic location, as well as various astronomical parameters. As a result, the beginning of each month differs from one Muslim country to another, and the information provided by the calendar does not extend beyond the current month. Aster77 (talk) 11:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

No sourcing, no verification. Consider using inline citations and <ref> tags to verify each of the statements. I think there's some needless usage of however/but as well (see WP:WTA). ITAQALLAH 20:25, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Theological considerations

If the Islamic calendar were prepared using astronomical calculations, Muslims throughout the Muslim world could use it to meet all their needs, in all aspects of their life, the way they use the Gregorian calendar today. But, the overwhelming majority of Muslim theologians interpret the Messenger’s recommendation concerning the observation of Ramadan’s new moon as if it were part of the fundamental Islamic dogma. They are therefore opposed to the use of calculations.

However, there is a very small minority of Muslim jurists and theologians who think that it is licit and appropriate to use calculations for the establishment of a pre-calculated calendar. They argue that the Qor’an does not prohibit the use of astronomical calculations, and that numerous theologians in the early years of Islam saw no contradiction between the Messenger’s teachings and the use of astronomical calculations to determine the beginnings of lunar months. ^[1] They refer to the dynasty of Fatimids, in Egypt, which used a pre-calculated calendar over a period of two centuries, between the 10th and 12th centuries, before a change of political regime reactivated the procedure of observation of the new moon.

The proponents of this approach consider that the Messenger’s recommendation to the faithful was merely adapted to the culture of the times, and should not be confused with the acts of worship. ^[2]

Egyptian cadi Ahmad Muhammad Shakir (who was to become President of the Egyptian Supreme Court of the Shariah at the end of his career, and who remains to this day an author of reference in the field of hadith) is a good representative of the views of this minority of jurists. He wrote a detailed legal opinion in 1939 on the subject of the Islamic calendar, entitled "The beginning of Arab months...is it legal to determine it using astronomical calculations?". ^[3]

According to him, the Messenger took into account the fact that the Muslim community of his time was "illiterate, not knowing how to write nor how to count". So, he recommended that its members observe the new moon to carry out their religious duties at the time of fasting and hajj. But the community evolved considerably over time, and some of its members even became experts in astronomy. According to the principle of Muslim law which states that "a rule is no longer applicable, when the factor which justified its existence has disappeared", the Messenger’s recommendation didn’t apply anymore to the Muslims, after they had learned to read and count and had ceased being illiterate.

Therefore, according to Shakir, contemporary ulamas commit an error of interpretation when they give to the Messenger’s hadith the same interpretation that applied at the time of Revelation, as if the hadith prescribed immutable rules. But, it has stopped being applicable to the Muslim community long ago, based on the principles of the shari’ah themselves.

Shakir reaches the conclusion that there is nothing in the shari’ah which opposes the use of calculations to determine the beginning of all lunar months, in all circumstances, and not only in special situations, as had been recommended by some ulamas. For him, there can exist only one lunar month applicable in all countries of the world, based on astronomical calculations.

Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a contemporary jurist, endorsed Shakir’s conclusions in a 2004 article entitled "Astronomical calculations and determination of the beginning of months." ^[4] Aster77 (talk) 11:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

"If the Islamic calendar were prepared using astronomical calculations, Muslims throughout the Muslim world could use it to meet all their needs, in all aspects of their life, the way they use the Gregorian calendar today. But, the overwhelming majority of Muslim theologians interpret the Messenger’s recommendation concerning the observation of Ramadan’s new moon as if it were part of the fundamental Islamic dogma." -- Opinionated, unsourced, no attribution.

"However, there is a very small minority of Muslim jurists and theologians who think that it is licit and appropriate to use calculations for the establishment of a pre-calculated calendar. They argue that the Qor’an does not prohibit the use of astronomical calculations, and that numerous theologians in the early years of Islam saw no contradiction between the Messenger’s teachings and the use of astronomical calculations to determine the beginnings of lunar months." -- Again, needless usage of words like "however" indicating preference. It's interesting to note that although this viewpoint is of a "very small minority," it is given quite a substantial and preferential coverage, in violation of undue weight policy which prescribes the exact opposite: if a view is in the minority, it does not need nearly as much coverage as more prominent views. ITAQALLAH 20:31, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Decision of the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA)

The Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) has also been regularly confronted with the responsibility of telling its Muslim American audience when to start fasting, when to celebrate « eid al-fitr », etc. After several years of study of the legal issues involved, it reached a decision, which it announced in August 2006, to use henceforth a pre-calculated Islamic calendar, taking into consideration the sightability of the new moon anywhere on Earth. ^[5]

The FCNA decision aims to meet both the requirements of the traditional interpretation of the shari'ah on this subject and the objective of developing a unified pre-calculated calendar for use throughout the Muslim world.

The FCNA retains the well-known principle of unicity of horizons (matali’e) which states that it is sufficient to observe the new moon anywhere on Earth, in order to declare the beginning of a new lunar month, applicable in all areas in which the information is received. ^[6] Second, it uses the International date line (IDL) or Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) as its conventional point of reference to conduct its analysis.

Based on the maps of sightability of the new moon in the various regions of Earth, which are now regularly prepared by professional astronomers, ^[7] the FCNA reached the conclusion that when the conjunction took place before 12:00 noon (GMT), there was enough time left for the new moon to be seen in numerous areas on Earth where sunset took place long before sunset in North America. Since the criteria of sightability of the new moon were met in these areas, the new moon would be observed (or could have been observed if weather conditions had been adequate) long before sunset in North America. Therefore, the requirements of sightability of the new moon as set by the shari’ah would be respected, and the new lunar month could begin in North America on sunset of the same day. On the other hand, if the conjunction took place after 12:00 noon GMT, the month would begin in North America on sunset of the following day.

The FCNA decision aroused interest in many Muslim countries, as witnessed by the international Conference which was held in Morocco in November 2006, to discuss the possibility of adopting a Global Islamic Calendar. According to a report entitled « Breakthrough for Global Islamic Calendar » published on « Moonsighting.com » in late December 2006, an “overwhelming majority of participants, including Saudi, Egyptian, and Irani astronomers agreed with the calendar (adopted by Fiqh Council of North America), that can be used as a Global Islamic Calendar. » ^[8] ^[9]. Aster77 (talk) 11:26, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Moonsighting.com is not a reliable academic source. The material apart from that is largely unverified and unsourced. Again, in the light of comments like "The FCNA decision aims to meet both the requirements of the traditional interpretation of the shari'ah on this subject and the objective of developing a unified pre-calculated calendar for use throughout the Muslim world," "Therefore, the requirements of sightability of the new moon as set by the shari’ah would be respected, and the new lunar month could begin in North America on sunset of the same day," or phrases like "the well-known principle" or "regularly prepared by professional astronomers", it reads like a promotional personal essay rather than dry, clinical, encyclopedic expostion. The significance of the FCNA decision is not justified, as it appears very few independent reliable sources have commented on it. ITAQALLAH 20:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Second draft of proposed additions

I have revised the sections above based on the comments received. The text now stands as follows. Your comments are welcome before it is introduced in the main body of the article:

Astronomical considerations

But, the lunar crescent becomes really visible only some 15-18 hours after the conjunction, and only subject to the existence of a number of favourable conditions relative to weather, time, geographic location, as well as various astronomical parameters. ^[11] As a result, the beginning of each month differs from one Muslim country to another, and the information provided by the calendar does not extend beyond the current month.

Theological considerations

If the Islamic calendar were prepared using astronomical calculations, Muslims throughout the Muslim world could use it to meet all their needs, the way they use the Gregorian calendar today. But, there are divergent views on whether it is licit to do so. ^[12]

A majority of theologians oppose the use of calculations on the grounds that this would not conform with the Messenger’s recommendation to observe the new moon of Ramadan and Shawal in order to determine the beginning of these months. ^[13]

But, since there is no prohibition to use astronomical calculations in the Qor’an, some jurists see no contradiction between the Messenger’s teachings and the use of calculations to determine the beginnings of lunar months. ^[14] They consider that the Messenger’s recommendation was merely adapted to the culture of the times, and should not be confused with the acts of worship. ^[15] ^[16] ^[17]

Thus, jurists Ahmad Muhammad Shakir and Yusuf al-Qaradawi both endorsed the use of calculations to determine the beginning of months.^[18] ^[19]

The Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) announced in August 2006 that it would henceforth use a pre-calculated Islamic calendar, taking into consideration the sightability of the new moon anywhere on Earth. ^[20] ^[21] Aster77 (talk) 15:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Footnote to the sections Astronomic and Theological considerations

The footnotes are as follows:

^ Emile Biémont, Rythmes du temps, Astronomie et calendriers, De Borck, 2000, 393p
^ Karim Meziane et Nidhal Guessoum : La visibilité du croissant lunaire et le ramadan, La Recherche n° 316, janvier 1999, pp. 66-71
^ Allal el Fassi : « Aljawab assahih wannass-hi al-khaliss ‘an nazilati fas wama yata’allaqo bimabda-i acchouhouri al-islamiyati al-arabiyah », "[...] and the beginning of Islamic Arab months", report prepared at the request of King Hassan II of Morocco, Rabat, 1965 (36 p.), with no indication of editor
^ Muhammad Mutawalla al-Shaârawi : Fiqh al-halal wal haram (edited by Ahmad Azzaâbi), Dar al-Qalam, Beyrouth, 2000, p. 88
^ Abderrahman al-Haj : « The faqih, the politician and the determination of lunar months » (in arabic)
^ Allal el Fassi : "Aljawab assahih..." op. cit.
^ The dynasty of Fatimids in Egypt used a tabular pre-calculated calendar over a period of two centuries, between the 10th and 12th centuries, before a change of political regime reactivated the procedure of observation of the new moon.
^ The Islamic calendar
^ Ahmad Shakir : « The beginning of arab months … is it legal to determine it using astronomical calculations? » (published in arabic in 1939) reproduced in the Arab daily « Al-Madina », 13 october 2006 (n° 15878)
^ Yusuf al-Qaradawi : « Astronomical calculations and determination of the beginning of months » (in arabic)
^ Fiqh Council of North America Islamic lunar calendar
^ The decision of FCNA retains the well-known principle of unicity of horizons (matali’e) which states that it is sufficient to observe the new moon anywhere on Earth, in order to declare the beginning of a new lunar month, applicable in all areas in which the information is received. It uses the International date line (IDL) or Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) as its conventional point of reference to conduct its analysis. Based on the maps of sightability of the new moon in the various regions of Earth, which are now regularly prepared by professional astronomers, the FCNA reached the conclusion that when the conjunction took place before 12:00 noon (GMT), there was enough time left for the new moon to be seen in numerous areas on Earth where sunset took place long before sunset in North America. Since the criteria of sightability of the new moon were met in these areas, the new moon would be observed (or could have been observed if weather conditions had been adequate) long before sunset in North America. Therefore, the requirements of sightability of the new moon as set by the shari’ah would be respected, and the new lunar month could begin in North America on sunset of the same day. On the other hand, if the conjunction took place after 12:00 noon GMT, the month would begin in North America on sunset of the following day.

Comments

I can see you've made several productive changes to the text, so well done. I'd recommend you do away with footnote #12 because it still reads as an opinion being presented as fact, or at least preferred. I'll have a closer read through soon and post my thoughts. Thanks. ITAQALLAH 20:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

All proposed additions by Aster77 are moot because they are old news. Conjunction before Greenwish mean noon adopted by the FCNA on 10 June 2006 were abondoned by the FCNA on 1 August 2007 when it adopted the Umm al-Qura calendar without modification. This is already stated in the article at the end of Islamic calendar#Umm al-Qura calendar. — Joe Kress (talk) 09:41, 25 May 2008 (UTC)