Talk:Islam in Albania

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Contents 1 Islam/Religion in Albania 2 Ethem Bey mosque's picture caption 3 Religious hatred "incident" 4 POV? 5 source 6 Contradiction? 7 Polls 8 Rapid Growth of Islam in Albania 9 STOP SPAMING 10 STOP DELETING about 70%

[edit] Islam/Religion in Albania

This article needs to decide if it is about Islam in Albania or Religion is Albania, as a lot of text is devoted to discussions of religions other than Islam.

Additionally, is there a cite for the claim The majority of citizens of Albania are Secular / Atheist (which appears twice in the article). Ashmoo 07:47, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I have read stuff that from very recent polls 60% of the population claim to be atheist while only 10% claim to be Muslim. It is on the Wikipedia Albania page.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.194.71.122 (talk) 22:23, December 18, 2005.

The polls conducted in Albania, since 1950's show that 70% of Albanians are Muslims. There have been few polls in the last years, but 2 of them show Muslims being 70%. Nathalie Clayer pretends for more, while a USAID study showed them around 58% and the orthodox around 10%. However the article on Islam in Albania should remain. Olsi.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.40.209.146 (talk) 16:46, October 25, 2006(UTC)

Hi, according to US Dept. of State, Muslim population in Albania constitute to 70%. Source: [1] -- alif

Please stop deleting the text of US dept of state. I have provided a credible source, US Dept. of State (Updated 2007), which suggests 70% of Albanians are Muslims Source - [2]. I have also kept the previous percentage of 10% as official census -- alif.

Here's the BBC source (Updated 2005), which also suggests that Muslims in Albania constitute 70%. Source: [3] -- alif.

[edit] Ethem Bey mosque's picture caption

In the Picture's caption, Ethem Bey should be Et'hem Bey. I'd change it but I dont know how to change it with out rendering the picture into text. Freestylefrappe

Fixed OneGuy 04:57, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Religious hatred "incident"

""In October 2003, police arrested Kastriot Myftari, author of the book "Albanian National Islamism" on charges of inciting religious hatred. The book contained the author's opinions on Islam and how the religion has impacted Albanian life. According to the prosecutor's office, several statements in the book demeaned Islam. The prosecutor had asked the court for 6 months imprisonment for the author. In June, the court acquitted Myftari of all charges.""

This last paragraph does not seem very relevant especially regarding the fact that the author was found innocent in the end. I'll remove this from the main article page.--Vlug 06:54, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV?

Is this

In the mountainous North, the propagation of Islam was strongly opposed by Roman Catholics. Gradually, however, backwardness, illiteracy, the absence of an educated clergy, and material inducements weakened resistance.

historically factual (I mean especially the second sentence, that it was backwardness, illiteracy, and material inducements) that allowed the propagation of Islam? Besides, the way the last part is expressed is also poor: weakened resistance? It's like we're dealing with WW2 or something alike, and it sounds quite POV to me... --Yobaranut 08:55, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

It seems that that statement could describe all of europe until the 1700s.

[edit] source

What's the source for this paragraph:

" A recent census has approximately 60% of the population as agnostic or atheistic, 12% as Roman Catholic, 18% as Albanian Orthodox, 7% as Muslim, and the rest as others. Ironically, Albania is considered by many a Muslim country though France has a greater percentage of Muslims."

Anyone has the source? If not, it should be deleted. 72.129.170.249 05:45, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

The source is the survey.

[edit] Contradiction?

in one section, the article says "over 95 percent of the country's young people were choosing spouses of the same religious background". Later it says intermarriage is very common. Which one is true, or when did conditions change from one to the other.

[edit] Polls

Albania is 75% Muslim 15% Orthodox and 10% Catholic but not all are religious this is due to 50 years of communist rule but Islam has been growing rapidly since 1999 in 2004 the strength of Islam was shown when almost 200,000 people prayed the Eid/Bajram prayer in the streets of centre of Tirana (capital city) that is approximately a third of the population in the capital city and especially since 2004 Islam has been rising ever faster.

In Kosova 93% of the Population is Muslim the country canto become any more muslin unless the 6% of the Serbs and 1% of Roma Gypsys convert into Islam as well but realistically that's not happening Kosova has a small Albanian population that are non-Muslims its is around 15,000

Your "statistics" are obsolete. Apart from cheap propaganda, I don't see any facts there. It just resembles Serbian websites talking about some phantasy-world islamic Albanians and such. But you can drop that here, because it's quite comical other than annoying. Where did you hear this nonsense: "200.000(!) people praying in the centre of Tirana"? Maybe you should say that in public around here and see the reaction of the people (but better not... if you want my advice). People here are some 74% nonreligious, last poll in 2004 by a private service and INSTAT the state stat. service. And that also quite fits the US state department data mentioned in the article, that from 2005 to 2006 had a decrease in estimates for the religious population in Albania from 30% to 25%, which leaves about 75% nonreligious. Thus the trend is not at all favourable toward religion. So if you take that into consideration maybe you'll even be able to see that the majority of mosques built in Albania after year 1994 with some peculiar Saudi Arabian funding, don't even have hodjas to manage them. Maybe even these Arabs were caught up in the "Albanians are muslims" hype. Eg. people have been sueing the two mosques in Tirana in the court of law because the muesins keep singing with loud speakers irritating the habitants. There's some misconception about this. Albanians weren't 70% muslims neither back in the 1930, cause even then the so called "statistics" were not real but rough estimates out of thin air. If there's a major religion here, they're the Orthodox Christians that have gained a lot of following, but all of them fall under the 25% of religious people, and no religion claims any majority of population in Albania, cause people would laugh at them. This shows you haven't got the slightest idea what's going on here for the last 100 years. If Albanians don't believe in gods, they just don't, where's the problem there? Isn't that supposed to be sth. personal? Vlug 19:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

First of all iam not serbia un jam shqiptar e mos me thir diqka qi nuk jam second You KRYQALI need to face the truth we are Muslims and we have no intention to go back to a religion that was forced upon us by the ROMANS so these things your saying are bullshit propaganda

I don't give a shit about Albania right now Iam more concerned with Kosova and in Kosova we are 94% Muslim we only have a Albanian Christians population of 18,000 and other Christians are the Serbs and Roma gypsy's you don't have to look hard to notice that Kosova has 3 times more mosques that it has ever had Islam is at its strongest ever in Kosova and Macedonia as for Albania well INSHALLAH soon we Albanian from Kosova and Macedonia will spread it to there rest of the 25% there

Here are some videos about Islam in Albania and Kosova

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81OUQC1W6V8 you can see a pic of the 200,000 in Tirana in BAJRAM/eid 2004 also it was shown live in RTK TVSH and RTV 21 don't denie the truth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwcRrpQGv88 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GGwi22ZiOU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhlpY2imyok http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5eS6wvMsKQ

There are tons more these are just a few

I can see you an (scuse my language) American ASS licker and do not wish to present the truth but hide it the fact is we are majority there are just over 3 million Albanians in Albania and another 15 million world wide 5 million in Turkey alone and they are 99.9% Muslims and the ones in kosova are 99% Muslims and the ones in Macedonia and Montenegro and the other millions living in Europe out of that 15 million at least 10 million are Muslims I don't care what the rest are but even though many of them are Muslims to but you deny it even the census says that Albanians of Albania are 70% Muslim and you denies that to

The fact is we are Muslims and that is what we will remain don't try and hide the truth

But I have no intention in continuing to fight with you because you are pretty Ignorant and a Super nationalist but don't forget not all of our people are like you

(Ti ja mban vetit patriot e shiptart por ju te shipnis jeni ata qi nuk bet kurgjo kur na prejke shkau ne kosov kurse gati 5000 muxhahedin ka ardh prej krejt botes me na ndimu me mbyt shkaun kurej as 400 shiptar te shipris nuk ka pas ne UCK edhe prj krej 20,000 ushr te UCK vetem 79 KRYQALI kan qen edhe 50 prej tyne kan qen kroat edhe disa gjerman edhe Italian mos e mshef RELITETIN)

Allahu-Akbar

Sorry to interrupt but some little frustration problems there... eh. But, you know, it's not good to impose your islamic delusions upon others as reality. I think maybe Albanians are a 200% islamics and there is a world conspiracy that shows that instead they're Atheists. Keep fighting man, in the end you'll win. Just don't get out of the house. sth totally unrelated- are you sure you're Albanian? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.32.241.156 (talk) 08:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

Didn't see anything about Islam in Albania in those videos. Cheap montage of century old photos badly mixed with irrelevant folk material, and the infamous new Saudi Arabian financed mosques where no one goes, unless he's getting payed something.Dimror 08:35, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't mind him guys, he's a Serb posing as Albanian. They have quite some psychological problems up there and use the net for these things. Go figure.--Vlug 12:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Hahhaha Hummmmm Iam a Serb and I speak Albanian fluently yeah right I get that one a lot from people like you but I have no die why you are Pathetic in calling me a Serb when its clear Iam a Muslim and Serbs are probably the most anti Islamc people on earth you could have at leasted called me somthing that a muslim like an Arab or a Turk that could have been a little more SMARTER (E JO ME LESHU FJALEN SI LOPA BAGLEN) you need to take you head out of your A** and smell the roses things are not what you like them to be just because some of you Albanians in Albania want to be European and become AMERICAS SLAVES AND PUPPETS we Kosovars and Macedonian Albanians don't and Wont got to RTK and read the news look at the statistics on how Islam has been STRENGTHENED in Kosova and Macedonia since 1998 and then look at how it has BOOMED in Albania and then read and look at the polls about how Kosovars have been fed up with the west and America and how 85% from the 90% of Albanians in Kosova are against the Ahtisari plan how most people want UN and KFOR to leave just peaces our POLITICIANS have a hand up their back sides and being used as PUPPETS the rest of people are not Most of the Kosovars are going towards Islam

Those videos show everything but you don't want to see you are like all other KUFARS you live in denial the fact is we are Muslim and like I told you Albania is only 2 million 12 million other Albanians live out side Albania and Most are Muslim just looking at the Albanians in Kosova and Macedonia Montenegro and Turkey they re all 99% Muslim in Kosova we have an Albanian non Muslim community of 18,000 so be quiet ignorant KID all those photos are and footage in those videos taken in Albania apart from the other video which is about Kosova so stop living in denial

If we are not Muslims I wonder why 5000 Mujahadeens came and fought in Kosova and yet not only that there was only 50 non-Muslim forren fighters (mostly Croat and a small number of Italian and German) but there was not a single non-Muslim Albanian fighting in the KLA/UCK so if you claim we are 80% Atheists then the whole of KLA was should have been atheist but Yet it wasn't it was 99.9% made of of Muslims and financed by Muslims

Your brain is clearly not advanced enough to comprehend the truth that's why you keep repeating you self and DENYING evidence that if served to you on a platter that's a sign of defeat, and BTW you are the one that resembles a Serb more because you act like they did and do when people accuse them of crimes against humanity they just deny it just like they deny Rraqak massacrer in Kosova just like they deny Srebrenica and many other events they say the we killed our own people not them same thing you are doing

Islam in Albania is long dead now. But you must keep on fighting nameless Serbian soldier / the world's depending on your shoulders. Incidentally, did you know that Albania is the only "muslim" country that didn't give a heck about those Muhammad cartoons. That's really strange, isn't it, because they are suppossed to be like... "muslims", aren't they? But strangely, none on the streets, none to even mention it, none to care at all. Not one single reaction. And do you know why, nameless soldier? Because Islam in Albania... is a bit... not there. But here you are, entertain yourself at Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy. --Kanibal 14:08, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

What ever you say KUFAR even if you claim it has died in Albania which it has not because way over half of the population is Muslim it still have not died in Kosova and Macedonia and in all other Albanian people but it has only gotten stronger as for the cartoons well what you expect the government is 90% run my non Muslims but don’t worry that will change soon INSHALLAH when Kosovoa becomes free and we unite with Albnaia

here is some other maps for you http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Islam-by-country-smooth.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/Islam_percentage_by_country.png

At what time will you take over the world, so that we prepare some popcorn.Dimror 10:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

When ever Allah has ment it to, I donr really care about the world at this moment all I care about is Bringing Albania back to fully Islam like Kosova and macedonian Albanians are and most of Albanians world wide are, and that will happen soon.

People like you give Serbs a bad name. Point southeast and keep on walking. Johny Walker, failed impersonation label.--Kanibal 13:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

People like you shouldn’t talk at all

[edit] Rapid Growth of Islam in Albania

The rapid growth of Islam in Albania since 1999 has not gone un recognized the average converts/reverts to Islam annually since 1999 was 9,000 – 15,000 but 2006 proved to be the highest ever braking all records and estimate of 36,000 converts/reverts to Islam in Albania I was surprised and shocked when I saw thin 3 days ago in Albanian national TV TOP channel. I’am personally a Muslim and I was happy to see this major jump lets hope INSHALLAH this year that number is even higher, well anyway greeting from Kosova and stop all that fighting crap your rumbling about stupid stuff.

[edit] STOP SPAMING

You are not allowed to delete the talk page under no circumstances that why this is here to put up your opinion

[edit] STOP DELETING about 70%

Please stop deleting the text of US dept of state. I have provided a credible source, US Dept. of State (Updated 2007), which suggests 70% of Albanians are Muslims Source - [4]. I have also kept the previous percentage of 10%. Here's the BBC source (Updated 2005), which also suggests that Muslims in Albania constitute 70%. Source: [5]. Both US Dept of State, and BBC source are credible sources, so please keep them. -- alif.

Thanks for providing sources. Now the 70% can stand. I kept reverting the article in last days, as there was a user (user:Gon4z) who tried to insert his persoanl opinions ("Orthodox Crusade") into the article and changed everything without any sources at all. Now the 70% are well sourced and will stand. noclador 17:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I understand. thanks :) -- alif

HI, yes from what I think Albania is,when it comes to Islam is that they are Muslims but maybe only by name. What I mean by that is that they may not follow it however it is part of their identity. And maybe when it is a special holiday people would go to the mosque on that one day or so. However I did read once on wikipedia that Islam is the fastes growing religion in Albania, and if it keeps on growing as it is the percentage of muslims in Albania will be 85 percent. And I hope in Allah's will that all the people of Albania and the world will become Muslim. By Wael Ghafarji 6/3/07

To IP - '217.24.240.72', WHY DO U KEEP DELETING THE FIGURES, when both the sources provided are CREDIBLE SOURCES. This is wikipedia, not a Personal blog. Thanks -- alif.

Hi. I'm an active anti-vandalism editor, and I couldn't help but notice your revert wars.

I see no reason to delete any of the references, but they contradict each other. Some say 21%, others say 65-70%, or somewhere in between. As it is now, the article also contradicts itself, because it says 70% is Muslim, then a couple of sentences later it says that up to 75% aren't religious. Having read all of the references for the article, I'm going to try to put together a neutral summary of what they say. If you two can't live with it, I suggest you take it to moderation, because revert warring is getting you nowhere. Poindexter Propellerhead 05:38, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

There is obviously a problem with these guys. After 50 years of formal and informal atheism they keep rabbling about some 100 years old data, just because the CIA data are from 1930. The US State Department data show a 60-75% nonreligious population. Now calling Albanians Muslims with a 60%-76% population never having gone to a mosque, temple or church in their life (3 polls conducted) is just idiotic, to say the least. Also for one to be called a Muslim one have to testify the Shahadah, just like one would be called a Christian after being baptized, and guess what... we don't have even have a piece of 5% of the population to testify the Islamic creed necessary to be called a Muslim, nor anything of that amount to have been baptized in any church. Some users here, specifically Greeks and Serbs obviously have a problem with this. But this is their problem, not ours. Btw, contributions under this IP are not from the same person. There are also a handful of other students contributing, because it's just funny but ultimately boring to go on and read about these "internet Muslim Albanians" or "internet Christian Albanians" and such when it's really difficult getting to witness these "numbers" here in real life, you know.

Poindexter, thank you for trying to help, but the banned user's sockpuppets' sources do not say 21%, others say 65-70%, or somewhere in between are Muslims. All sources on Muslims in Albania say 70%. Sources which say that 50% or more Albanians don't go to church/mosque every Sunday/Friday does not mean they are not Christians/Muslims. It's orignial research. If someone wants to say that Muslims in Albania are 10%, give a source that says something like "Muslims in Albania are 10%". Unless this happens, we'll have to stay with the existing sources which say "Muslims in Albania are 70%". This is policy talking, not me, see WP:V and WP:OR.--Ploutarchos 10:44, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Reference 4 says 21%. It's on page 14 or 15 (note, the paper is in French, hope that's not a problem). That figure was probably taken from (Goring, Rosemary (ed). Larousse Dictionary of Beliefs & Religions (Larousse: 1994); pg. 581-584), which is cited by adherents.com. Poindexter Propellerhead 17:07, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The majority are nonreligious in Albania, look a bit closer at your "facts"... they just restate the 1930 "statistics"... These are present day: "plus de 72 % irréligieux ou non pratiquants. 28 % se répartissent en 21 % musulmans, 6% orthodoxes, 3 % catholiques." & "no reliable data were available on active participation in formal religious services, but estimates ranged from 25 to 40 percent." Every single "source" stating a 70% Muslim population is actually saying that there are 100% theists there. Do better math next time. I've been watching you guys for two weeks now, and although I don't believe the number of Muslims in Albania to be at 10%, more likely 15% to 20%, there's still a considerable majority of non-religious persons, and counting these as Muslims or Christians, even "nominally" is just not real and frustrates also the people in Albania, because they actually laugh when you ask them about God. All my Albanian friends are Agnostics at worst. The only Muslim I've known in Tirana was some guy from Saudi Arabia that worked in a bank there.

PS. Banning the "IP guy" above and hiding his input to this discussion isn't going to make reality go away. I know from personal experience that at least Greek policemen tend to give tourists going into Albania from Greece some weird guidelines about Islam in Albania and such, and I found it really bizarre to see this thing going on in Wikipedia too, because it's hard to spot this in the country proper. It certainly looks like an agenda to my amateur eyes.