Talk:Isis (band)

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Peer review Isis (band) has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
Peer review Isis (band) has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Contents

[edit] Themes/ imagery

Would it be appropriate to talk about ongoing themes/ imagery in the albums - or would that be moving away from the encyclopediaic ethic? Thoughts?

I think it would be good to mention in each album's specific entry, or perhaps in a paragraph on this Isis page about how Aaron does the artwork (or assembles it all) and brings up consistent repetition in themes, the mosquito being the major one. Seasonsinthesky 01:49, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
This is seasonsinthesky, just not logged in. I've added the themes to the main page as well as each specific page of the releases that have these interconnected themes. Edit as you see fit; my words may not have been so easy to understand outside my own head, and some of it is speculative (so perhaps the addition of a fancy "this is speculative" template would be appropriate for some of the pages). 142.177.79.78 17:00, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I was just reading the article, and I was wondering what the basis is for the interconnected themes mentioned here and in the release articles? I understand the individual themes (towers in Celestial, the ocean in Oceanic, etc.), but the interconnectedness is something that I've never seen before, like:
Loosely, since the tower is linked with the woman featured in the story of Oceanic, it can also be inferred that she is the center, and around her revolve her brother and the main character of Oceanic, both of whom she uses for her own gain. (from Panopticon).
Is this something that Aaron's mentioned in interviews, or that can be sourced? No offense, but if those are your personal interpretations, it shouldn't be here (see WP:NOR). That being said, the articles in general are really nicely done! - Rynne 19:24, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Interconnections are obvious in the art, such as the fact that the cover art of Celestial has mosquitos on it (yet the album has nothing to do with insects, per se). As for the tower connection to the female character in Oceanic, well, yes, that was conjecture, but i didn't make up the story, which is available in the booklet of Oceanic. Also, since it does seem as if I presented it as fact, I reworded the part of the article you quoted in order to make it obvious that these are conclusions drawn from the presentation of the albums (art, words, etc.) and not something Turner has presented as fact. Seasonsinthesky 22:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

"Panopticon reintroduces the tower through convention." what the hell ?? Unixer 14:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

If you've read the Panopticon article, you'll note this:
This reintroduces the tower theme of past releases through convention; the center of the circular panopticon was designed either for a lone guard or a central tower, with which the surrounding cells/rooms/etc. are governed.
When I put together the theme summaries for the main page, I used quotes or paraphrasings of the theme write-ups on the individual albums pages, which is where your quote comes from. There's a reason the link to the album is right in that quote. Seasonsinthesky 22:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categorization

By my estimation, Isis are pretty much in line with the characteristics of doom metal. I've refrained from editing the article in case anyone disagrees with this, however. Cassandra Leo 08:36, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

While their music shares a lot of common characteristics with doom metal, you have to consider the fact that doom is (generally) either: a) sludgy stoner rock, or b) horribly downtrodden depression metal, and the term 'doom metal' rarely refers to anything else. I wouldn't categorize any Isis song as stoner rock (even if the case could be made that some of the earlier material sounds that way) nor horribly downtrodden depression metal (as I wouldn't call any of their songs particularly sad-sounding; epic, yes, but not sadly so), and thus, I do disagree with the doom metal category, as it relates Isis to associated stigmata that are (in my opinion) unfitting. Seasonsinthesky 22:17, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I have to agree here - 'doom' refers to something much darker than Isis. One of the most fantastic things about Isis is their/its nebulous nature - even Aaron finds it difficult to pin point them. However, I do think it appropriate to give the doom genre a passing mention, as there are clear elements of it in some of the music, moreso the earlier work. Any mention, that said, should make it clear that doom is not the be-all and end-all of classifying Isis. Seegoon 13:02, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
I've added the mention under the Genre heading. Feel free to edit it, as I feel kind of iffy about how I worded it. Seasonsinthesky 14:00, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I actually categorise Isis and Pelican and Soundscape Metal, due to the long song duration and the general sense that that they are trying to create an ambience with the music that matches with the themes of the lyrics and album concept. Armareum 12:01, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Even if it's accurately descriptive, we can't just claim Isis are a genre you made up. I know you probably weren't intending it to sound like you know what Isis are and no one else does, but at the same time, all the genres and descriptors already mentioned about the band in the article were sourced from either people who have some sense of authority on the subject, common opinion (especially post-metal), or the band themselves. We have to keep things as "official" in that sense as we can, for the sake of accuracy and accountability. Maybe you can mention their soundscaping in the descriptors, since it is definitely an element that isn't explicitely mentioned here yet. Seasonsinthesky 22:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Band Infobox

I added a relatively accurate band infobox. Feel free to change the picture; I chose that one because it's from the Panopticon session and relays the band's enigmatic presence beneath their music. Make sure you use an image from the official press area and keep it sized at 300px in the infobox, since it looks pro this way. Also feel free to edit or change the Boston link; I put it there because they were in Boston from 1997 through to 2003, but perhaps an LA link would also suit this section, as that's where they are now. Seasonsinthesky 14:20, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Style

Is it usual Wikipedia practice to emphasise every mention of the band name? I thought it was usually limited to just the first instance.

Fixed. 142.227.235.193 17:25, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Videography

For one - I don't know if I've presented the video in a Wikipediaic style. Also, does anyone think it should be removed for insignificance? I think it's pretty important, and with the pending release of a DVD, the section may begin to grow. Seegoon 20:20, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The other Isis

There was an all-female, lesbian rock band called Isis in the 1970s.

This is more or less useless information. Sorry, didn't mean to sound like an ass, but you can go to www.discogs.com, do a search for Isis, and note the 12 entries you find. This band is number 6 in the list! Needless to say, the name has been used extensively. If you find the 1970s band is a popular search, I suggest adding it to the Isis disambiguation page if you haven't already.142.68.85.77 01:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Live 4 exact dates

Does anyone have an exact date for Isis playing for WMBR in March 2001? I'd ask this over at Live.04 but nobody seems to be there. I'm going to research the rest of the tour dates on that particular album. 72.49.242.131 05:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)dethtoll

Okay, here's what I've been able to dig up.

Tracks 2 and 7 were performed at the Troubador in Los Angeles on November 5, 2005. Tracks 3 and 4 were performed at CBGB's, New York City on August 26th, 2001. Track 5 was performed at the Rotunda in Philadelphia on June 7, 2001. Track 6 was performed at The Middle East, Boston, September 17, 2002.

I'm going to go edit the the Live 4 section now. 72.49.242.131 06:30, 25 May 2006 (UTC)dethtoll

Seems likely we may never know the exact date the WMBR recording was done, as even the liner notes only say its year (not month and year like the rest). Seasonsinthesky 04:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discography for ya

I'm not sure that it would actually be useful, but I've come up with:

Mosquito Control
(1998)
The Red Sea
(1999)
Celestial
(2000)
SGNL>05
(2001)
Oceanic
(2002)
Oceanic: Remixes & Reinterpretations
(2004)
Panopticon
(2004)

I have no idea why the Remixes artwork doesn't work, I'm assuming it's because the original is pure white with no border. Issue is, this doesn't include inbetween releases like the Live.00 releases and Sawblade. Those could be presented in a seperate table maybe? Just some feedback... Seegoon 06:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The Remixes artwork works fine, it's just so light that perhaps your monitor isn't showing it so well. I can see it decently well, but these Macbook screens are rather luminous.
Anyway, I like how it's currently laid out, on the actual page. There's no need for the big chart like you've posted here, because that's usually reserved for albums with chart positions, i.e. the Radiohead discography. Seasonsinthesky 16:21, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Wasnt the Remixes and Reinterpretations CD a compilation of a series of 3 LPs that were released? Armareum 11:14, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

It does compile all the material released on the vinyl LPs, but it also has an additional remix (I believe by Tim Hecker, though I could be wrong) not released elsewhere.156.34.80.128 03:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Live series covers

If anyone can get a good scan of the covers of Live 1 through 4, that would be fantastic. I did up some mock covers based on the sgnl05.com artwork blips for the first two, but I have no idea what the other two Live records look like. Any help is appreciated. Seasonsinthesky 16:21, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failed "good article" nomination

This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of November 25, 2006, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Fail. The prose is a bit awkward at times, with weasel words and colloquialisms such as "chilled-out." Note that putting a term in quotation marks does not justify its usage in an encyclopedia. The analysis of their music in specific needs work.
2. Factually accurate?: Fail. It seems accurate, but a lot of it seems like OR and needs to be referenced.
3. Broad in coverage?: Pass. Definitely an informative article.
4. Neutral point of view?: Weak pass. "Their sound has influenced that of many contemporaries" and other such phrases have to go. I find it hard to believe that such a modern band has influenced "many" other groups.
5. Article stability? Weak pass. It would seem that there have been quite a few edits recently, but I wouldn't fail the article on account of this, seeing as they are mostly minor edits.
6. Images?: Fail. Each image needs fair use rationale for its use in the article, per Wikipedia:Image_description_page#Fair_use_rationale.

When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far. -- Cielomobile talk / contribs 23:30, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Themes

If anyone could dig up some reputable external links regarding the themes Isis addresses in its music, I'd be eternally grateful. Seegoon 01:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The last paragraph in this section will need inline citations. LuciferMorgan 20:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I know - that's why I need to know if anyone has any source material. If not, it'll have to go fairly soon as OR. Seegoon 15:05, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Isis - all-woman band

Isis (1972 - 1977). My real problem is, that I do not know how to disambiguate the disambiguation-page...--84.56.112.72 16:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Create Isis (female band) or Isis (R&B band) or whatever you want to name it - to do this, simply click one of the redlinks, edit away, and save. Simple. To alter the disambiguation page, simply go to Isis (disambiguation) and edit that, providing a link to your new page; disambiguation pages are not computer generated, they require editing just like any other. Once you've made the other band's page, you might want to add a {{seealso}} template to the top of this band's article. Seegoon 20:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison with Opeth

A friend of mine recently told me that many Isis fans are also Opeth fans (which is how he heard of the band), but before that I had thought I was the only one who recognized a certain pattern the two bands share. Both bands start off in a certain genre, but within the confines of that genre they create their own unique sound, which they then begin to expand on over time. both bands mix growling vocals with clean vocals, with a gradual shift towards more clean vocals than growling. if it wasn't 5:15am I could probably think of more. 72.49.117.53 10:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)dethtoll

That may be true, but anything like that needs referencing from a reputable website before it can be added. Fans of Isis tend to like Endtroducing era DJ Shadow; why, I don't know. Anyway, the point is, as true as it may be, without an article on it somewhere, it counts as OR so is therefore not elegible for inclusion. Which is harsh but fair. Seegoon 14:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Few minor suggestions

  • references, [17][7] should be [7][17]
    • Done.
  • last section of history is too short, and it states 'currently' it won't be current in a few years
    • Changed to "as of December 2006".
  • Instead saying 1998 (see 1998 in music) just link 1998 to 1998 in music [[1998 in music|1998]]?
    • I think WP:MUSIC says different, for whatever reason.
  • Isis released a demo and their first, i think this section can be broken into a new paragraph, also no need for the (1999) in brackets
    • I'll address this soon.
  • where they were joined by Randy Larsen of Cable on guitar, Mereschuk left the band, choppy i suggest "Mereschuk left the band in 1999, and was soon replaced by Jay...
    • And this.
  • As one reviewer noted:, who? say (as an example) bob from Rolling Stone said the album was
    • OK, the only issue here is whether the reviewer is notable. For printed sources, they would be, but most online reviews wouldn't warrant the reviewer's name being included in the article.
  • Chris Mereschuk (electronics/vocals) i think electronics should be wikilinked to electronics in music (if there is one)
    • I've had a look around and I don't think there's anything specific enough to link to.
  • those bands laid the groundwork for us [...] we're part of a recognizable lineage. [...] should be replaced with a comma
    • Well no, because I've paraphrased him here and edited out unnecessary words. In reputable essays and so on, this is the usual style. If Wikipedia tends to do it differently, I'll change it.
  • blah blah blah.'" has a ' and "
    • Here, the ' is a part of his speech, almost "bunny-earsing" what he's saying. The " is necessary too, to show that the quote's finished. It's complicated but grammatically/syntactically/punctuationally correct, whatever the word is.
  • Turner has before now complained that, before and now :O?
    • You've lost me here.
  • creating stub articles on the band members will increase the bands notability to other readers
    • Yeah, good point. But there's an incredibly minimal amount of information available on these guys. I don't think they're popular enough, to be fair. Maybe Turner... I'll bear it in mind...
  • Videography, is it necessary? I'm sure the DVD can be merge into the body and the other point has an external link
    • Maybe not, but that would be culling information for no really good reason. And if it was gone, there'd be a necessity for it eventually.
  • References 14 and 23 need a retrieved date
    • Good point, I'll just use today's.

I hope i helped. Btw click on the wikiproject heavy metal and add your self to participants! M3tal H3ad 01:59, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. Seegoon 19:05, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Panopticon in Rock Sound

This tells us that Panopticon won 2004's record of the year in Rock Sound. Need a citation - does anyone have a copy of this issue? Seegoon 16:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that I have that one, I'll have a look now. Vicissitudo (talk) 13:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I have an issue from early 2003 that has the results of Rock Sounds top 50 albums of 2002 and Oceanic was number 1. Is that worthy of a mention? Vicissitudo (talk) 13:58, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Original research

All the following text was in the Themes section, some of it by myself, some of it not, but with thought it's obvious that it's not appropriate for Wikipedia:

There is one intellectual leap that can be made regarding the logic behind these motifs, something which gives an explanation for them and ties them together. Isis, the band's namesake, is the archetypal mother goddess; notably one which originated around the Nile delta in Egypt. This gives a viable reasoning to both the powerful, potentially malevolent female as well as the largely negative connotations of water. Using slightly more tenuous conjecture, it can also be posited that the tower and mosquito themes are also related to this mother goddess. A goddess is likely to be omniscient; this explains the theme of surveillance, and of being observed from above. Mosquitos are common in Egypt, and represent harbingers of death via Malaria. It is rumoured that Isis are planning an adaptation of Charlotte's Web set in a universe that is "Somewhere between Terry Brooks and H.P. Lovecraft", touching mainly on themes of love, loss, transgender romance, isolation, mosquitoes, the tower, femininity, and man's search for a post-Neanderthal construct. This syncretic work is meant to interpolate the distance between man's meaningless wandering in the desert and the unkind supervision of the powerful omniscient. The lead character is said to be a hypothetical Neolithic deity who is presented with the task of fulfilling a list of labors, such as filling the ocean with mosquitoes, and building a Panoptic tower full of captive women.[citation needed]

If sources can be dug up, the pertinent sections can be returned. Til then, here it must remain. Seegoon 01:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:In the absence of truth.jpg

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[edit] Fair use criteria

The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. — Moe ε 00:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] News

This is from a Feral Pig blog post, and could be implemented at some time soon. If anyone can be arsed.

This:

ISIS - we have been steadily whacking away at songs for the next album. in october of last year we started toying with a few bits and pieces we had lying around, and continued to do so through parts of november and december. however, the floodgates seemed unwilling to truly open until we reconvened in january after our holiday excursions/adventures. since then we've managed to complete the skeletons of 4 songs, and it seems things are finally starting to take shape. i'm not sure how to assess our work so far, but things are certainly moving at the moment. we're going to keep our heads down for the time being and keep chiseling away til we feel we've accumulated a satisfactory amount of material before we even consider going into the studio. in the meantime we're working on correcting the recently recalled "holy tears" single as well as the companion single for "not in rivers, but in drops", amongst other things....

And...

as some of you may already know, the ISIS "holy tears" single that was scheduled to come out today, has been cancelled. we discovered at the last minute that the first song on the finished version of the single was the wrong song. what should've been "holy tears" was actually "wrists of kings". now while we like both songs, we figured we couldn't very well release a "holy tears" single with out that particular song being on the damn disc. oh well - it'll still come out, we're just not sure when.

There's also a bunch of stuff regarding the Shades of the Swarm box set.

Seegoon (talk) 10:46, 29 February 2008 (UTC)