Talk:Ishmael

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	Ishmael has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
May 8, 2007 Good article nominee Listed

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Contents 1 Archives 2 Ismail's own article? 3 Bahá'í view 4 Good article review 5 As ancestor of the Arabs 6 Jahiliyyah?

[edit] Archives

• Talk:Ishmael/Archive 1

[edit] Ismail's own article?

Nearly every character in the Bible who also appears in the Qur'an has his own article. Can we make Islamic view of Ishmael? --Ephilei 21:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bahá'í view

Some updates to this treatment here:

• The Bahá'í view doesn't warrant mention in the opening paragraphs per WP:Undue weight. In the same vein, the treatment of the Bahá'í should be succinct in the body of the article itself.
• Ishmael isn't a "Manifestation of God" in that religion's theology.
• The "two Ishmaels" observation is not germane as it refers to two different people.
• The Bahá'í Faith takes largely the Islamic view with respect to Ishmael across the board.

Hope this is clear. MARussellPESE 13:41, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks MARussellPESE for writing the section. --Aminz 06:19, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good article review

A few critiques of this article with respect to the good article review:

1. Excellent use of citations.
2. Excellent use of images
3. Covers the topic very well from several different angels
4. Article is relatively stable though a bit less then I would like

Now two minor problems

1. references like Hagar (Bible)#Hagar in Jewish mysticism are probably better handled via a rename like Hagar in Jewish mysticism
2. Some of the sentences seem to mix discussion between references, for example under Jewish Tradition, In some Rabbinic traditions, Ishmael is said to have had two wives named Aisha and Fatima, the names of Muhammad's wife and daughter.[1] This is understood as a metaphoric representation of the Muslim world (first Arabs and then Turks) with Ishmael. Better would be something like In some Rabbinic traditions Ishmael is said to have had two wives named Aisha and Fatima. Those names correspond to the Muslim tradition for the names of Muhammad's wife and daughter. Unless the article means to assert that there is a rabbinic tradition involving the names of Muhammad's wife.

In my opinion this article satisfies Wikipedia:What is a good article? jbolden1517^Talk 21:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] As ancestor of the Arabs

Are there written sources discussing Ishmael as the ancestor of the Arabs from before the time of Muhammad? This should be explained in the article. Thanks.--Pharos 04:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jahiliyyah?

I decided to be bold and change the description of Ismail as "pre-Islamic" (with link to Jahiliyyah) to "pre-Muhammad". Does Islam consider significant prophets such as Ibrahim and Ismail to be in Jahiliyyah just because they preceded Muhammad? Since Ibrahim ayah 39 records Ibrahim praying to God, he's not in the state of paganism that (if I remember right) is meant by "Jahiliyyah". Someone more knowledgeable please confirm or correct this! Nyttend 01:40, 9 September 2007 (UTC)