Talk:Irma Grese/Archive 1
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Another Wikipedia Travesty
It is a bias Wiki-Travasty!--Nikbar Sini 04:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Irma Grese was a simple farm girl who became a postal clerk at Belsen. Does anyone believe a girl this beautiful would bed with some lice ridden camp criminals? Short biography[citation needed] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.12.194.210 (talk)
- Nice to see the latest generations of Nazi's are still at it. Oh well, they are sooooo amusing though, poor things! --RobNS 23:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
It's not a 'Wiki-travesty'!--86.25.51.230 02:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Irma Grese Was A Mail Clerk
She was 19 yrs old when she was captured. Anyone that has studied the Nuremberg trials see them as a complete farce. Her jobs were mail clerk, tending the commandant's garden, kitchen supervision, and taking roll call.
Ghost Story
I don't know where the ghost story regarding Krema 3 came from with the night watchman in 1948 - all the gas chambers and crematoria were destroyed by the guards (other than one blown up by prisoners) in 1945
It's probaly a hoax goast story, sice the sorce is a bit dodgy.--Nikki Fagin 01:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Irma Grese
I wonder why Irma Grese was such horrible person. Is it true that she was a victim of the war. I am not a symperthizer of Nazis. But I fell really sorry for this young lady and even more sorry for the all the jews killed in the war. If she had been born in a peace time she not only would had lived a normal life by becoming a lover, wife and a mother but also would shown great courage and bravery in her work. It is indeed sad she treated jewish prisoners with animilistic treatment. It is very sad that she choses children to be gassed. But my view is that she should have been spared from hanging as she was a minor and a teenager at the time of the crime occured. (Irshad Cassim - Sri Lanka).
It seems perfectly obvious that she was a depraved psychopath. Obviously, in peace time her behaviour would soon have landed her in jail and on the block. - Norvo, 00:08 UTC, 18 June 2006
What we here? A Nazi apologist like so many others who have tried to gloss over the Nazi regime as a mere blip of mass insanity which gripped a nation and made an entire people discard their morals and values and conscience. I think your comments are quite disgusting Irshad Cassima and are a real insult to the memory of those who suffered at her hands. You have no evidence to prove that she would have led a normal life had there been no war. Chances are, anyone who was capable of the filthy and evil acts she committed must have had an latent wicked streak in her personality which no doubt she would have manifested in some other way no matter what her situation or environment. Too many Germans try and make excuses for the crimes of the than trial stuff, which appears to be witness statements only. Camp records, etc. I have so far not run across anything other than Nurember/witness stuff which reeks of gossip level info. There appear to be some documents on her by the rare but occasional number that slips in - number of days on a certai detail ( where does this come from?). Details of her pre-interrogation statement seem known and her post-interrogation statement is certainly well known.159.105.80.80 19:39, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Any documentation - any - at all? Some of the attempts at documentation end up muddying the water - trial transcripts that make the prosecution witnesses look bad, etc. I have asked for sources, maybe this is all that exists?159.105.80.80 13:22, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
A source-
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6142/irma.html --Homer slips. 03:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Copyright violations
Portions of this article appear to be copied verbatim from [judicial-inc.biz/Irma_Grese_by_redirect.htm]. Also, the web page from which the text is taken appears very sympathetic to her and the Nazis in general. 66.30.14.1 09:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- This is indeed something to consider. That website seems to be either pro-Nazi, holocaust-denying, or both. JHMM13 (T | C)
00:14, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Whether you are pro- or anti- Nazi the facts stay the same. --88.109.191.249 14:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
War Crimes?
Framed by "...hysterical Jewesses that wanted blood"? The whole section is neo-Nazi claptrap.
I'm sorting out the Neo-Nazis, dros, crap and cods-wolp tomorrow. I've also got a bundel of links I'm adding to! --Homer slips. 03:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Delete Last Paragraph
Even without knowing the true facts, anyone can see that the last paragraph on the subject of Irma Grese is Nazi Propaganda. Get rid of it!
Edited as of 10/8/06 into more or less the same state it was in previously - which, oddly, did include the bit about the ghost.
DG, Leeds
Removed bits
I removed today the following bit from the "Execution" section:
"to be hanged by Ronald Cook, assisted by Regimental Sergeant-Major O'Neill." Reason: The name "Richard Cook" was not supported by sources. The name O'Neill stems from Pierrepoint's autobiography, but there is no evidence that already the verdict contained the names of executioner and assistant, which the article'S wording seemed to imply.
Second bit removed: "One of the hangmen, Ronald Cook, refused to hang Griese. Major Jerome Burdik ordered him to and that night he went home and shot himself. Afterwards two American military policemen Sgt O'Hare and Cpl Rick Smith also were court marshaled for refusing to walk Irma to the gallows and a civilian hangman had to be flown in from Britain for the task."
It is correct that the "civilian hangman" Pierrepoint was flown in, but everything else is unsupported by sources and seems to be taken from ://militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/irma_grese_beast_of_auschwitz which, in turn, does not give sources either. Apart from this, the claim that American military policemen had been involved in any way is incredible since Belsen as well as Hameln were in the British Occupation Zone where U.S. soldiers had no function whatsoever. Details as dotty as that destroy the credibility of everything else as well.
The weblink quoted above was removed from the "External links" section as well since it was inserted to support the sentence that "Three different hangmen refused to hang Irma Grese", a claim for which there is no support in the website quoted, and which seems to serve no purpose except portraying Grese as a victim so innocent that it was evident even to the executioners...
I find it typical and disturbing that changes of this type are regularly made by people who go by an IP address rather than using an account. It sheds some light on their courage - or lack of same. --Kauko56 18:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree about those number only guys, Kauko56! --Homer slips. 04:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I also concure, lads!--86.29.248.151 00:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Irma Grese Was A Mail Clerk
She was 19 yrs old when she was captured. Anyone that has studied the Nuremberg trials see them as a complete farce. Her jobs were mail clerk, tending the commandant's garden, kitchen supervision, and taking roll call. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.12.194.210 (talk) 01:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC).
Shaved heads.
- - {{offtopic}} - {{disputed}}--Strento 01:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - {{POV}}--86.29.240.253 18:26, 23 March 2007 (UTC) -
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Discussions on this page may escalate into heated debate. Please try to keep a cool head when commenting here. See also: Wikipedia:Etiquette. |
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{{hoax}}--Tommie A. Quwinton 20:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - I was told at school by a very reliable histoery teacher that Ilsa Koch and Irma Grese were boath forcibaly head-shaved before there exicution and that thier hair was sold to the local wig industry. I know it's a bit weird, so whaire do I go to veryfy this claime?!--86.29.242.170 17:33, 22 March 2007 (UTC) - - It might be a fake? Was he just cracking a sick joke, mate?!--Jean kv 18:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC) - - It's obviosly just a quip by your old teacher--86.29.242.170 18:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC) - - I've herd of it, at school, in Gwent, to.--86.29.250.83 01:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - I've never hered of it, ever!--Lucia dd 01:36, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - It is probaly a hoax or a joke by your teachers.--Strento 01:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - I have never beleaved in the 1970's school-room calim, either.--Bobie Alice Flinker 02:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - I'm shure it's a fake accusation, every one!--Nikki Fagin 02:26, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - It's true, so don't beleave the C.I.A. coverup, cleevaks!--Z-viagra 02:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - It's a fake and you know it, you holocaust-denying D'vor, De Nestor and Neo-De Storian! - --Nikki Fagin 02:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - Oh, Cheeno! let's just calm down and chill out now!--86.29.250.83 02:55, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - I bealeve this page reqirere some of this-
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Discussions on this page may escalate into heated debate. Please try to keep a cool head when commenting here. See also: Wikipedia:Etiquette. |
-only calm talk is O.K.!--86.29.240.253 17:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - -
Yawn, Yawn to the Swointous!.--Lucia dd 19:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - Oh, buegar! I thought I had calmed you down!--86.29.240.253 20:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - I know this is a hoax and the bloke who sdtarted it is a bit of a Gofe!--Tommie A. Quwinton 20:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC) - - What T.O.A.F. put up this sick catagory, then?!--86.29.253.109 01:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC) - - Yep, it's a dopy paragrah. It's totaly- off topic!--Jean kv 01:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC) - - It's a hoax, I can't find any Google his for it! It's probaly a a Denestor.--86.29.253.109 01:30, 24 March 2007 (UTC) - - Yes,sir!--86.29.250.156 20:09, 24 March 2007 (UTC) - - I concure!--86.25.51.230 02:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC) I know it's true!--86.25.48.87 03:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC) Yep!--Fiona Foam 03:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Some clean up
Added a picture (public domain mugshot), my non-NPOV opinion is that shes no beauty by modern standards. Deleted the last of the unsourced "beautiful beast" items that just cannot be verified outside of unreliable gossipy websites. If you can find more respectable sources/testimonies about her deviant behavior in camps, your welcome to put it back in (with ref cites). Removed the haunting stuff which is unencyclopedic hearsay. If you have a decent article (not gossip mags) that specifically addresses the fact that her ghost haunts Auschwitz - you can put it back in (again citing sources). Removed the lamp shade statement, I know its been mentioned in a lot of other sites (and some of them respectable) but its an urban myth [1][2] that seems to have mixed up Irma Grese with Ilse Koch. Nazi Horrors need no embellishments. Article still needs a lot of work, specifically in citing sources. --Eqdoktor 13:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- The picture... oh wow. Irma Grese, what a pretty Aryan man! --HanzoHattori 10:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
- Removed "Irma's Defense" section, the only source of her quotes are from hate websites. There's no way, no how I will direct traffic to those places to cite them. Refer to Wikipedia policies on external links. --Eqdoktor 17:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Historians now know that there were no gas chambers at Bergen Belsen. However, did the trial in 1945 make that distinction? Current article on her try to differentiate her two assignments - did the 1945 trial or was a later development?159.105.80.80 14:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Citation question - one of many - three minutes to die could come from 10:03am when she was hung. The doctor declared her dead as soon as he walked down the stairs. Maybe there is a proholocaust site that has a good citation on the 3 minute story but I couldn't find it - just wishful thinking maybe.( Pierrepointe was the states official hangman - he rarely made mistakes after the hundreds he hung)159.105.80.80 18:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC) Sorry about the time - wiki source says 9:34 not 10:03 ( that was the second execution of the day ). The source makes the article definitely look like wishful thinking - no 3 minutes, maybe even a shot of chloroform. 159.105.80.80 18:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
If you remove the lampshade story, consider that the whip was cellophane, laugh about the shooting of prisoners and the starving dogs, take Mr Abraham Glinowski with a grain of salt, etc you end up with not much of a story - much less trial. Was citation [2] just meant to be an embarrassment?159.105.80.141 12:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- The fact is, this cannot and has not been verified. It's certainly possible, but with everything the Nazi's did leaving this out isn't going to whitewash anything. However, I personally think this should be mentioned as a possibility. The rumor/myth has been around long enough that it should be mentioned in the context that it is in fact a rumor/myth. AniMate 07:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
