Talk:Irish general election, 1918
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[edit] Note One
What is the source for this claim about the placing of a gun to an electoral officers head and the discovery of new ballots? Also, where did it happen?--John Carroll 11:58, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
Tim Pat Coogan, Michael Collins p.67. It was in the Longford by-election in 1917. In the words of the perpetuator, Alasdair MacCaba, "I jumped up on the platform, put a .45 to the head of the returning officer, clicked the hammer and told him to think again." FearÉIREANN
\(talk) 20:41, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] mandate for war?
- Sinn Féin treated the result as a mandate from the Irish people to immediately set about establishing an independent, all-Ireland state, and to initiate an undeclared war of separation from Great Britain.
This isn't really true, is it? My understanding was that the media and the government incorrectly blamed SF for the militancy? Is the article being too simplistic in believing that SF and 'physical force republicanism' were one and the same? Aaron McDaid (talk - contribs) 12:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Elections in Independent Ireland category
Please stop adding Elections in Independent Ireland category to this page and to Irish general election 1921 page. Yes, Irish independence was proclaimed in 1916 and was declared by the 1st Dáil in January 1919 but that does not make it a reality. The Irish Republic states it existed from 1919 to 1922. The 1918 election was a UK one, run by the British government, how is this an election in an Independent Ireland? If a county is independent then it can run its own elections as the Free State government did in 1922. Also what about the people in Ireland who didn't recognise the Irish Republic and thought they were continuing to live in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Another thing, the Irish War of Independence started in January 1919 (and ended in 1921), so how could an election in December 1918 be held in an Independent Ireland?
But rather than get into a revert war and discussions on when Ireland became independent, I think the categories should be re-organised.
The current structure is:
Elections by country
[+] Elections in Ireland
[+] Elections in the Republic of Ireland
[+] Elections in independent Ireland
A better arrangement would be:
Elections by country
[+] Elections in Ireland (all elections up to and including 1921)
[+] Elections in independent Ireland (all elections from 1922 to 1948)
[+] Elections in the Republic of Ireland (all elections from 1949)
It's not perfect, but the 1918 and 1921 elections would then reside in the Elections in Ireland only, conveniently, side stepping any potential POV issues like actual date of Independence. There are other issues like presidential elections, the first 2 are in independent Ireland, the rest in RoI category, not exactly ideal, they should surely be in the same category. The difficulty is in trying to come up with categories for the following periods of history:
- British rule, until 1916/1919/1922 (take your pick!)
- Irish Republic, 1919-1922
- Irish Free State, 1922-1937
- Ireland/Éire, 1937-1948
- Republic of Ireland, 1949-
All suggestions welcome! Snappy56 18:57, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- Are we using British electorial history or are we using Irish Electoral History, Independence was declared in 1916, reconfirmed by the First Dáil Éireann after the 1918 General election, trying looking at the Dail database.--padraig 21:07, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
We are talking about reality based electoral history! IMHO, Irish independence was a process, starting with the Easter Rising and ending in the Anglo-Irish treaty. Ireland didn't magically become independent as soon as P.H. Pearse read the proclamation or happen when the 1st Dáil declared unilateral independence, these were steps on the way.
This text is from Irish Republic:
The goal of those who established the Irish Republic was to create a de facto independent republic comprising the whole island of Ireland. They failed in this goal, but the Irish Republic paved the way for the creation of the Irish Free State, a Commonwealth dominion with self-government, and a territory that extended to the 26 counties originally foreseen in the 1914 Home Rule Act. By 1949 the Free State became a fully independent republic, the 'Republic of Ireland'.
Speaking in the Dáil on 29 April 1997, Bertie Ahern, the leader of the Fianna Fáil party, which is the successor of the anti-treaty Sinn Féin, and the then Taoiseach (head of government) John Bruton, leader of the Fine Gael party, which is the successor of the pro-Treaty Sinn Féin, agreed that as a basis for inclusive commemoration, the date from which Irish independence should be measured was not the formation of the Irish Republic in 1919, but the 1922 establishment of the Irish Free State, the first modern Irish state to achieve de facto and de jure independence, and therefore international recognition.
This is the position of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and presumably the other Dáil parties which makes it a majority position, so although you have a different opinion, you should respect the majority one. Btw, Do you have any suggestions for category changes? Snappy56 19:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Article title
This article is currently titled Irish (UK) general election, 1918. I can see a reason for the parenthesised "UK", since the election was organised as an election to the UK Parliament, but it's superfluous because there was no other general election in Ireland that year.
So I propose that the article should be moved to Irish general election, 1918, which is currently a redirect to Irish (UK) general election, 1918. Any objections? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
- I would support that move as the 1918 election was the first election to Dáil Éireann.--padraig 11:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
