Talk:Ira Einhorn

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Contents 1 An Article 2 Extradition case 3 Arlen Specter 4 Extradition 5 Articles' existence 6 Discussion board edit 7 Eringer

[edit] An Article

Better not to have an article than to have an inadequate mess. Ortolan88

Since I've started it, I think I should talk. I don't wanna start a flamewar here, but I just thought starting writing it should call the attention to people who would like to change and add info to it. By the way, what do you refer to when you say about inadequate mess? Just wanna learn so that I may write better next time.

Regards, Tcascardo

Okay, fair enough. The article reads as if he was a famous ecologist who somehow blundered into a murder trial and was convicted through no fault of his own. Since the woman's body was found hidden in a trunk in his apartment and he had quarrelled with her is at least prima facie evidence of some serious involvement. It is not mentioned that he also recently lost an appeal and is in prison for life after having bargained his way out of the death penalty from abroad. Also, little notes like "I don't remember her name" and the perfunctory treatment of his flight from justice (which was quite interesting, as it seems he lived quite well and everyone around him knew he was on the lam) call for much more work (and the questions should be put on the talk page until answered). My comment meant that he was a fascinating story (what made him famous as a guru anyway?) that was not being told in a very fascinating way. Good luck on continuing to add to the article and to add to the Wikipedia. Ortolan88

Thanks for the tip. And just because it's a fascinating story that I got an interest on it. I tried to talk about the fact that he recently lost an appeal, but just didn't know the details, since I've just got an eye on it on the news very fast some time ago. And about his flight from the justice, it's a long story I couldn't remember from heart. Just wanna make this article better, and gonna do it if get the info at my hands. Thanks for the help. Hope I can make a good job everybody will enjoy.

Regards, Tcascardo

For some research resources, go to www.google.com and news.google.com and type in his name. The first searches regular web pages and the second searches news sources. You'll find lots of good background information. Also, I wonder if you really need a separate article on his victim. Shouldn't she be in the article with her killer? And, finally, when you do the Google searches, you'll see that he was present for his trial, was not tried in absentia. As you say, this is a fascinating story, and you are eager to try your hand at it, so go for it. Lots of good stuff on capital punishment, prominence in the 60s, his diaries in which he justifies killing, etc. This could be great. Ortolan88

Great! But just for your notice: I was not the one who wrote he was tried in absentia. That was the great Maveric, although I'd read this in another article too. Tcascardo

Einhorn claimed he was tried in absentia to convince French justice not to extradite him (French law does not allow for definite convictions in absentia; people convicted in absentia are entitled to a re-trial). David.Monniaux 15:31, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Trial: There were two trials: the first one was while Ira's was hiding in Europe; he was tried "in abstentia". When he was extradited back to the USA from France, he was present at his second, short trial where he was found guilty. I knew Ira quite well for at least 8 years before Holly's disappearance. I spent time with Holly and Ira in Montreal where I lived and in Virginia. He actually left for Europe with a woman he met in Virginia but that is always left out of any stories. Holly was a wonderful woman and very artistic. Ira always had a weakness for woman in general and a disregard for other views of reality than his in particular. rogerv

[edit] Extradition case

I've tried to explain the complications around Einhorn's extradition case. I'm not sure that the following was apparent enough: there were really two different issues at work

• Einhorn apparently had a team of very good attorneys maneuvering with France's rule of criminal procedure against handing final judgments in trials without the presence of the defendant.
• He also tried to win points with the locals of the community in which he lived, as well as left-wing groups, claiming that he had been framed in a political trial. This was perhaps in order to get PM Jospin not to sign his extradition decree (extraditions must 1) be authorized by a court 2) be decided by the PM).

A lot of the presentations of the case in the US had focused on 2) and apparently claimed that it had a significant influence on 1). This is, I think, a biased point of view. David.Monniaux 19:22, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have a question for anyone reading who might have sufficient legal knowledge to answer it. It's about the choice of words in this sentence: However, the French court ruled itself incompetent to estimate the constitutionality of foreign laws. Is the word "incompetent" in this sentence a legal term? Otherwise it might be construed as biased language. Maybe "unqualified" would be better? I don't want to change it if it has other connotations because of its legal usage. 147.154.235.53 12:18, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Arlen Specter

One detail of the original charges I recall reading was that former D.A. (and now US Senator)Arlen Specter represented Einhorn and was instrumental in getting Einhorn a riddicoulously low bond, which allowed him to flee overseas - - - information on this subject would be interesting, I think. --68.103.109.8 11:38, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

This "editorial comment" removed from main page and moved here Sept 25, 2005 --

---

"Ira Einhorn has a new book out (2005) "Prelude to Intimacy" written in 1997 in France, which seems to be a strong brief that he was framed and is innocent. The reference to his 'body odor" in much of the pop media is clear anti-Semitism IMHO. It is factually not true as I know from first-hand experience."

If your "first-hand experience" is so valuable, and apparently completely exonerates Einhorn, why didn't you sign your comment? 147.154.235.53 12:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

--> Comment removed (see note below) --Keereann (talk) 00:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Extradition

For some reason, despite it being discussed on the comment page, no mention appeared of the "trial in abstentia issue", making in my opinion part of the "extradition" section meaningless, since the article noted the american reaction to a french court decision that wasn't even mentionned previously, let alone explained. I added it. No being a native english speaker, the addition might be poorly written and corrections are welcome.

[edit] Articles' existence

I find that the page doesn't seem to exist if I try to access it through the usual methods - Google has a cached version that has some details, but this isn't the one that is currently in place. Why is this - has it been deleted? Autarch 12:50, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion board edit

I just removed a rather spurious comment from above (unsigned, suggested that the CIA should have assassinated Einhorn while he was a fugitive). IMHO, the discussion board is for improving the article and suggesting edits, not espousing your personal view of how history "should have" happened. --Keereann (talk) 00:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Eringer

I don't think we can rely on someone who says he was framed by the CIA for a murder (like he meant anything to anyone) to say that he was chased down by an extremely famous CIA agent who may or may not be real. I think the sentence that says he was chased by Eringer should be either removed or changed to indicate that it is simply his claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Titan124 (talk • contribs) 15:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)