Talk:Interlingua

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Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.

Previous discussions:

It was time to archive the old discussion. --Chris 16:03, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The page has been archived again, for all discussions up to mid March. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 03:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Most Widely Spoken?

I am an intermediate Esperanto speaker, and as such I was interested in the popularity of Interlingua versus Esperanto. I did notice, however, that at the beginning of both articles, they claim to be the most widely spoken "international auxilary language" in the world. Maybe there are some nuances in the specific wording that I'm missing, but it sounds to me like a contradiction, folks. Any help? -ExNoctem 04:16, 11 August 2007 (UTC) [update: I've pasted this same thread to the Esperanto talk page]

[edit] Naturalistic

From the opening lines: "[Interlingua] is the most widely used naturalistic auxiliary language." My changing this to "... the most widely used purely naturalistic..." has been contested; but aren't more widely used languages like Esperanto and Ido partially naturalistic in that many words resemble those in national languages? --Kwekubo 01:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Given that no-one has expressed any contrary opinions I'll go ahead and reinsert "purely". --Kwekubo 15:22, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History section migrated into its own article

I've gone ahead and migrated the history section into History of Interlingua. I've also gone ahead and attempted to remove some of the more detailed portions of the section in order to make it summary-style, although I believe it should really be rewritten. I'll try to do some more work with it, but this is just a heads-up for any regulars of the page who are interested. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 03:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Romanica = Interlingua?

I was just looking for a language called "Romanica" and was redirected to Interlingua. Is Romanica another name or an older form? If so, I think it should be mentioned in the article somewhere... — N-true 14:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

After a cursory Google search, it seems to me that Romanica is a separate language, so I cannot understand why it redirects here. Maybe someone with some Interlingua experience could help here? -ExNoctem 03:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Romanica language and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Romanica --Rumping 19:32, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
If anyone cares, 'Romanica' created by the basque interlinguist Josu Lavin, is a conlang that interestingly has exactly the same vocabulary as interlingua, but slightly different grammar and spelling. It only has a few speakers, and Josu Lavin now seems to have taken down the websites promoting the language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laurentio313 (talk • contribs) 01:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reverted Deletion

70.112.188.37(talk) removed the following text:

The largest number of Interlingua words are of Latin origin and have entered Interlingua 
through the Romance languages. Greek and Germanic languages provide the second and third 
amount of words, with a minority of the vocabulary originating in Slavic and non-Western 
languages.

with the notation

(rm misleading passage - the origins of Interlingua words are incidental and here make the language appear much less international than it is - also, minor details should appear later in an article)

I have reverted this, on the thesis that the origins of words in any language, but particularly in a constructed language are extremely relevant to an article on that language. We certainly wouldn't want the article on the English language, for example, to have the section on word origins removed, and most people already know something about the origins of words in English. Why, then, would we want to remove references to the origins of words in a constructed language, about which most people would know nothing?

Remember, it's not our job to make the language "appear" more or less anything. Wikipedia's job is to report verifiable information.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 14:55, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Modern Language

Yes get rid of all the idioms of language and create a new one, such as newspeak (-1984). -PatPeter 18:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Interlingua is an excellent language, I have seen Esperanto, and have decided thta I actually know way more interlingua, and I havent even studied it I just have a small (microscopic) understanding of spanish. it is a glorios language that i am going to try an learn. Esperanto is difficult. newspeak looks pretty good though, I like the idea. though it was desgined to look evil, it actually seems pretty good, no more cunfusion, shorter english classes, less missunderstanding, though peotry will be missing ( I hate the stuff anyways) but music will deisappear. but progress has sacrifice. (Masterxak 06:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC))
Don't say Esperanto is difficult when you haven't learned it yet. The vocabulary in Interlingua might be easier to recognize for you, but there's also grammar. In my opinion the Esperanto grammar is easier than Interlingua, but this is just my opinion. But even compared with Interlingua, Esperanto cannot be called "difficult". ;) — N-true 11:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't say the grammar is so difficult; if anything it's simpler than Esperanto's. The complicated part of Interlingua is the morphology - word formation and so on. But that's also the key to it's high degree of recognisability.66.183.165.57 00:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I never said the grammar would be difficult. After all, morphology is a part of a language's grammar. — N-true 00:49, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
With my native knowledge of English and a fair vocabulary (but epic failure in grammar and structure) in French, and microscopic familiarity with the distorted Spanish in Cebuano, I'd have to say that my comprehension of Interlingua is greater than my comprehension of Esperanto. And that is all I can produce as fact. And that, as sure as gravity, 'aint going into any encyclopedia article. --Talionis (Shout me · Stalk me) 06:41, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Community

So, where is this elusive "community"? I've been interested in learning Interlingua for some time now, but I haven't found anywhere to learn it. I like Lingua Franca Nova, and they have their own wikipedia, but I'm interested in learning Interlingua, too. It's quite widely known, and it's not half as ugly as Esperanto, since I want to teach at least one conlang to my kid. Contact me if you know. InnocentOdion 15:12, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Here it is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/interlng/ You'll need to register through your regular email address to post though, as on Yahoo Groups I think it's just a mirror and doesn't accept postings through a regular Yahoo account. Mithridates 16:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks a million for the website. I've signed up. However, are there any more? And is there a better place to learn it than interlingua.com? That site isso in need of revamp. I'd love a website with a layout like lingua-franca-nova.net or lernu.net. —Preceding unsigned comment added by InnocentOdion (talk • contribs) 11:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subjunctive?

The article says there is no subjunctive, but the sia in the Lord's Prayer clearly is one. That's a contradiction. — Chameleon 00:35, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

It's the only one. But yes, someone should clarify that.05:06, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Phonology

I saw that the Phonology graph for the consonants didn't have an ŋ in it. Was this left out on purpose, or should it be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.165.156 (talk) 23:20, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I suppose it was left out on purpose, because while the [ŋ] might be pronounced in Interlingua, it's not phonemic, so a word like lingua is phonemically /ˈlinɡua/ and only phonetically [ˈliŋɡua]. The table lists only the phonemes of the language. — N-true (talk) 00:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vocabulary

English eye and German Auge are not descended from Latin oculus at all, contrary to what was stated in the article. On the other hand, the Romance words (ojo, occhio, olho, etc) do descend from Latin oculus (by way of Vulgar Latin oclu). Seeing that the Germanic and Romance languages are related, one might say (informally) that eye and Auge were "cousins" of oculus - but never its descendants. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.199.51 (talk) 05:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling irregularities

I'm a huge supporter of Interlingua - in fact, I'm on the executive of one of the national organizations - but I would never deny that there are some spelling irregularities, if by irregularities we mean departures from one-symbol:one-phoneme mappings that are not covered by simple rules. For example, girafa 'giraffe' begins with /ʒ/ (or /dʒ/) while girar 'gyrate' begins with /g/. The fact that the Interlingua-English Dictionary needs a pronunciation key for some words is sufficient documentation for this fact. 64.180.222.133 (talk) 18:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure the word girafa is pronounced with /ʒ/ or /dʒ/ in the beginning? I'm not an Interlingua speaker, but could it be it's pronounced with a /g/ as in German "Giraffe"? — N-true (talk) 18:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
The IED says "girafa (jiráfa) n giraffe". In practice, you could get away with /girafa/ - I doubt anyone would notice. In fact, some people ignore the hard G rule and say /ʒirar/ etc. with no real miscommunication. (Come to think of it, I don't understand why Gode & Co. went for the soft G, when they substituted hard G for Anglo-Romance soft G in so many other cases. But the IED is clear on the question.)64.180.222.133 (talk) 18:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese grammar simple?

I have some troube with this sextion:

More recently, Interlingua's grammar has been likened to the simple grammars of 
Japanese and particularly Chinese.

Who claims Japanese has simple grammar? It doesn't inflect by person but except for that, I wouldn't say it's any simpler than Western languages, just different. I studied the basics earlier, and it hasn't struck me as a grammatically simple language. Chinese, on the other hand, I understand, 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * (talk) 22:40, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lord's Prayer translation(s)

How come the Lord's Prayer in this article is so different from the one in the Interlingua version of this article? Shouldn't they be the same, since (assuming 'Specimen de Interlingua' means what I think it does) they're both in Interlingua? Are they traditional and modern versions?

Nostre Patre, qui es in le celos,
que tu nomine sia sanctificate;
que tu regno veni;
que tu voluntate sia facite
super le terra como etiam in le celo.
Da nos hodie nostre pan quotidian,
e pardona a nos nostre debitas
como nos pardona a nostre debitores,
e non duce nos in tentation,
sed libera nos del mal.
Amen.

Patre nostre, qui es in le celos,
sia sanctificate tu nomine.
Que veni tu regno.
Sia facite tu voluntate,
como in le celo, etiam super le terra.
Da nos hodie nostre pan quotidian,
e pardona a nos nostre debitas,
como etiam nos los pardona a nostre debitores.
E non induce nos in tentation,
sed libera nos del mal.
Amen.

And another question... does there even need to be be a sample of Interlingua on that page, which is entirely written in Interlingua? I guess there is some use for it, since nobody reading the page would be a native speaker, and so probably wouldn't already know the translation, and would find it useful to compare it with their native language. But then, (tangent on a tangent coming up) most people in "the entire world" do not know the Lord's Prayer. Still, I suppose we won't get much better than 2 billion out of 6 billion with any other sample text. Angelastic (talk) 13:52, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

It's not particularly different, except for the word order. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * (talk) 20:55, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Serious neutrality/veracity issues

I deleted this bit:

"the most recent conference (2005), in Sweden, was attended by slightly over 250 people."

, because it is incorrect, as I pointed out several years ago! (I was there myself - there were about 80 people.)

In general I think the article has serious neutrality issues. Some of the information seems downright misleading. For instance:

"Interlingua is taught in many high schools and universities, sometimes as a means of teaching other languages quickly, presenting interlinguistics, or introducing the international vocabulary."

While it's true that the University of Granada have courses in interlinguistics where they study Interlingua, I highly doubt that it has been taught in any highschools since the seventies. Later I'll look for the issue of Panorama that is cited as a course, but I'm reasonably sure.

Also, is it really in accordance with the principles of neutrality etc. to use so many texts written by interlinguists themselves (*in* Interlingua, even) for backing up claims of the success/benefits of Interlingua?

See for instance this paragraph:

"Today, interest in Interlingua has expanded from the scientific community to the general public. Individuals, governments, and private companies use Interlingua for learning and instruction, travel, online publishing, and communication across language barriers.[24][25][26]"

That cites as sources three texts in Interlingua written by two highly esteemed interlinguists.

I'm an Interlingua speaker myself, but I can't stomach this kind of thing in what is supposed to be a neutral encyclopedia. Who has been writing this article anyway? Some other Interlingua speakers? --Laurentio313 (talk) 01:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Agree. I added an NPOV warning. Caroliano (talk) 16:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)