Talk:InterCityExpress/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

I found several sentences, particularly under 'trivia', to be unclear.

I think I've looked at and copyedited most things so the article reads better. Sticki 12:21, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Contents

Missing

Dont you think we need to add the accidents.I am not sure of the year and date,but there was an accident involving an ICE,where the train rammed an overhead bridge,should we add this?Prateek01 18:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

You're referring to the Eschede train disaster. But this article also makes reference to that in the "History" section.
Atlant 18:29, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Im sorry,my mistake.Prateek01 08:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Gone with the wind

It is said the ICE are of faulty design because the train ends are too light (to little weight), so their speed cannot exceed 200km/h when going in one direction or the train would lift off from the track and cause diaster. They can only go the nominal 250km/h when going in the other direction, so the timetables for to and from directions are very different. It is said the problem with ICE is another sign of badly deteriorated engineering skills at the once mighty Siemens company.

Their other faults include "Siemens Combino" low-floor city trams which had aluminium body that cracked apart in a few years use. They had to be rebuilt in steel, which in turn made them so heavy that they crack the street rails.

Germany would have been much better of with buying TGV, but the stupid nationalist pride... 195.70.32.136 19:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

While it is true that Siemens had some problems with the quality of their current products, the ICE itself is a successful product that fits the German market a lot better than TGV trains. Let's go into detail:
  • train ends are too light (to little weight), so their speed cannot exceed 200km/h when going in one direction or the train would lift off from the track
This is only partially true. ICE1 are not affected and neither are ICE2 when coupled (as they usually are on high-speed lines). ICE2 half-trains when pushed indeed have a lower speed limit on lines that are vulnerable to crosswinds. ICE3 and ICE-T are a completely different concept with the motors underneath the train. These are relatively light trains, but crosswind problems only occur at very high speeds speeds and very specific parts of high-speed lines (like bridges). Since most high-speed lines are lined with noise-protection walls anyway, this is not a problem.
  • It is said the problem with ICE is another sign of badly deteriorated engineering skills at the once mighty Siemens company.
The ICE never was a Siemens-only product. The trains were always built by consortiums which included Siemens among several other companies (like Adtranz), most of which are now parts of Bombardier Transportation. Several of these companies also built parts of TGV and Talgo high-speed trains BTW. Those quality problems that occur are not engineering problems per se, but rather consequences of trains being designed-to-cost rather than designed-to-spec. This is a common problem with privatized railway companies ordering trains all over Europe.
  • The Combino trams were a desaster because they were designed to the wrong spec. Several other railroad manufacturers that have shares of the ICE program of a size comparable to Siemens are quite successfully buliding low-floor (and ultra-low-floor) trams.
  • Germany would have been much better of with buying TGV
The ICEs were an upgrade to the existing InterCity network rather than a completely new network (hence the name). When the TGV was introduced, there was already a lot of infrastructure and trains (DB Class 103, DB Class 120) in Germany that allowed InterCity traffic at 200 km/h which was incompatible to the TGV (25 kV 50 Hz vs. 15 kV 16.7 Hz, TVM vs. Linienzugbeeinflussung). So significant changes would have had to be made to the TGV - quite expensive and not easy. Note the problems the ICE3M had to get permission on the French network and the similar challenges the TGV-Est is facing now.
  • but the stupid nationalist pride
Nationalist pride? You haven't been to Germany in the last 60 years, have you?--Qualle (talk) 19:55, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

First Generations?

"The first generations were derived from the then-new class 120 electric locomotives."

Does first generations here mean first-generation trains or first two generations of trains? The next paragraph discusses the third generation, so I would assume the latter is meant.

ICE 1 and ICE 2 have almost the same locomotives which were derived from the class 120. --FloSch 08:53, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Ice T

"The main differences from the original ICE-Ts are several cost-cutting measures, giving those trains a 'cheaper' look and feel."

This appears to be a POV and should either be deleted or explained. Is the ride quality noticeably poorer? Are there more defects and malfunctions? What cost-cutting measures were used?

Are there sources for any of these comments, or is this one person's POV? 71.131.226.22 06:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Less space, reduced services (no audio service anymore) and cheaper materials are the main points here. I wouldn't say this is POV but I might be wrong. Those are hard facts, no personal opinions. --FloSch 08:54, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Self-contradictory Statement

"When those problems were fixed and the train finally ran without apparent problems in December 2002, a train derailed because of a broken axle."

If a train derails because of a broken axle, it is not running "without apparent problems." I think I know what is meant (i.e., that the other problems had finally been solved), but the sentence still needs to be cleaned up or deleted. I would prefer to delete it, but perhaps changing ran without apparent to seemed to be able to run without problems would be adequate, although a couple of other changes might still be in order. 71.131.226.22 06:11, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

What is self-contradictory in "Just when those problems were fixed (and it appeared as if the trains were running without problems), an axle broke and caused a train to derail"? If you have a better way of saying this be bold! --Qualle (talk) 09:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

"There are also silent carriages where laptops, mobile phones and other 'noisy' equipment should not be used. These carry a sticker displaying a whispering symbol."

What does the whispering symbol look like? 71.131.226.22 06:11, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is an image of the symbol used in the train. --FloSch 08:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Page move

Could we move this from InterCity Express to InterCityExpress ? It's a redirect to here right now, so the page cannot be moved by an ordinary user. The naming convention is the CamelCase word, as with RegionalBahn, RegionalExpress, InterCity et al; it was only the InterCity Experimental (the ICE-V) that had a space in its name. --doco (☏) 10:58, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

A Redirect with only one history item can be overwritten by any user (in most cases, there seem to be a few exceptions) --Qualle (talk) 07:22, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
That's sweet. I wasn't previously aware of that. --doco (☏) 20:46, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I found the ICE a fantastic way to travel intercity!

I travelled around most of Germany on these trains during the world cup and thought they were great! It was an absolutely amazing way to travel. Canderra 17:27, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.