Talk:Inter-Services Intelligence

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[edit] Overhaul

I am gonna do a major overhaul of this page.

But I haven't had the time to devote to this page. Currently sprucing up and finishing up the Pakistan Army Page. The Military page is almost done, just need a couple of more pictures and thats it. History of the Pakistan Army is almost done as well just need some info on their UN duties and some pics. Then on to the ISI

[edit] "Responsible for terrorism in Pakistan"

I reverted Siddiqui's addition of the parenthetical clause "which is responsible for terrorism in Pakistan". What does this mean? If it means that RAW has performed or financed terrorist acts in Pakistan, then you must be more specific, and more importantly you must cite a source. Thanks. Babajobu 03:19, 18 February 2006 (UTC) i m yasir ali so please i don't knowledge.

Evidence obviously is very clear from the article. ISI has a history of terrorism. It has used innocent people specially Muslims all around the world for it on disgusting acts and benefits. ISI has a only one vested interests which is to look after the benefit of few army personals and fill their pockets with wealth. ISI has used innocent people from Pakistan and trained them in name of Islam and made them Talibans. Later on just for its own interest ISI turned her back rather provided full military support to kill them. I don’t mean to say that Tiliban were right but why create them in the first place. What other proof do you need. This just one example. History of ISI is full of corruption and terrorism not only with othe nations around the world but also with its own innocent people and in the name of religion. 7/7 bombing, 9/11, killing of prominent politicians in Pakistan (Bhutto family) etc. The list is endless. You name it. They are bunch of corrupt inhuman people —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tasee70 (talk • contribs) 13:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stranglehold

It seems that Indian users of wikipedia have a stranglehold on anything Pakistan related on wikipedia.

I guess I am the one who has to shoulder the burden of stopping this anti-pakistan campaign on wikipedia

I am almost done with edits on the Military of Pakistan, Pakistan Army and the History of the Pakistan Army pages.

Just need to add some references, notes, pictures and these articles are done.

Before I came along, all of these articles had some sort of "Controversy" type paragraphs attached to them.

Once the Navy, Air Force is done.

I am gonna fix up this page.

Mercenary2k 7:11 AM, 6 February 2006 (Toronto, Canada)

u r not an administrator, and you are from pakistan then tell me how are you going to be neutral??

220.227.152.109 10:52, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I am going to fix up this page and give a neutral perspective. For example, Operation Ajax in 1953 was deemed a success in CIA and M16 but in essence it installed a dictator in Iran. So it was good for USA and UK but bad for Iran. So to present this in a neutral way, you talk about how it was beneficial for USA and UK and what strategic aims they achieved while in the same time you address what happened to Iran. Thats how. If you don't know how to do this, then I suggest you don't contribute here.

Mercenary2k March 7, 2006 19:l2 PM

Thats not a very kind way of talking to an anon. Please don't bite the newbies.-xC- 05:57, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] British support for the ISI

A statement was released by Ministry of Defence showing full support for Pakistan's intelligence services [1]. Napoleon12 October 07, 2006 12:34 PM

[edit] Indian accusations against ISI go COLD

A lack of evidence presented on the table by India has created scepticism against their accusations. Especially, looking at Mumbai police's track record [2]. Napoleon12 October 07, 2006 12:34 PM

[edit] STOP THIS VANDALISM

There is no concrete proof that ISI supports terrorism. These are just biased accusations to hurt Pakistani interests. Also, referencing from articles fill with personal assumptions is not going to cut it. Thus, I shall continue editing this article to keep it a high quality informative piece about one of the most lethal intelligence forces in the world. Napoleon12 October 08, 2006 1:13 PM

Your statement above contradicts the nature of Wikipedia. Might I ask you to read the five pillars of wikipedia? Wikipedia is not based on personal knowledge but on verifiablle sources. Wikipedia is not a source of truth but a distillation of information from verifiable sources. There is no requirement for concrete proof in wikipedia, only that the information be in reliable sources like major news organizations. --- Skapur 17:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
I have not much to say accept, I will continue editing this article to expose the truth. Because, the people want the truth and not biased assusations. Napoleon12 October 08, 2006 1:35 PM
If you claim that ISI has no contacts with terror outfits, then provide a source on it. India and UK have in the past caught several terrorists who have claimed to be closely working with ISI. ISI cannot prove its innocence by refuting these claims. Anyways, major powers like India and UK raising a finger on the integrity of ISI, is an important issue and worth mentioning. Also, how do you plan to expose the truth? --Incman|वार्ता 15:51, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Given the sensationalist nature of today's news, a news organization is no longer a reliable source. This article is littered with various accusations by the ISI's enemies. Accusatiosn dont belong in this article. It is about the ISI.

What do you mean? The allegations against ISI were made by the Indian and UK governments. What do news agencies have to do with it? Also, the article discusses accusations against ISI and that does belong to this article. --Incman|वार्ता 15:51, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Reply to above: The Indian government is an enemy of Pakistan and its routine allegations are not something to be taken seriously. The British govt has not made any allegation at all against the ISI. Its only trickster media like BBC Newsnight who fudged a document to claim the British govt suspects ISI.

[edit] Media Portrayal

Does pakistani movies portray ISI in their movies??. Also anybody remember hollywood movies portraying ISI??

i added a few movies which i knew of protrayed the ISI. if you guys know of any more, please add Mercenary2k 07:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] India admits that charges against ISI not clinching

Dawn article [3] Napoleon12 07:11, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ISI successfully infiltrates the Armed forces of India

BBC article 1 [4] BBC article 2 [5] Times of India [6] Napoleon12 07:11, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drugs

I came across this in a book titled The Terror Timeline by Paul Thompson which documents all events related to the war on terror.
"Nov. 29, 1999: UN Says ISI Makes Billions from Drugs"
"The United Nations Drug Control Programme determines that the ISI makes around $2.5 billion annually from the sale of illegal drugs. [Times of India, 11/29/99]" (pg. 247).
There are a lot more interesting links between the ISI, drugs, and 9/11 documented in this book from reputable news sources. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.2.16.43 (talk • contribs) 16:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC).
^that was me (just in case)Itoldalthea 01:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

hmm there probably are links between ISI and drugs, as financing is required for major operations. Same goes for many other intelligence agencies. There are no links between ISI and 9/11.

I am sorry but that's all i can see from indian sources which always bash pakistan so that will not do.The indian media has a history of creating fictional romours about "Pakistan this..." "Pakistan that.." So if you cannot find a more reliable source,it simply cannot go there.-Vmrgrsergr 06:43, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] REALITY:

The reality is that you can not blame our secret intelligence agency without any solid proofs.no one knows what actually is going on.but the fact remains , that it is this agency that is making sure there is nothing wrong being done or is being planned which is ofcourse not in the better interest of pakistan.as far as the funding for the operations is concerned,it is the ultimate responsibility of the state which is fulfiling it as when required in a fine manner.isi is not a corrupt organization.it has never been involved in heinous fund raising as described by some of our freind(enemy to be precise).you better mend your theories which are entirely based upon fabricated stuff.

[edit] ISI

Every newspaper in Pakistan and the current Supreme Court hearings have all stated that the ISI is more involved in politics and terrorizing Pakistanis than gathering intelligence against Pakistans enemies. According to Pakistan papers ISI has bugged the judges of the Supreme Court and kidnapped anyone who stands up to the Pakistan Army, so obviously there is a lot of documentation about the so called un-intelligent agencies

trueblood 03:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

all of that is already mentioned in the Controversy section Mercenary2k 04:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ISI headquarters

ISI headquarters is next to the CDA office not next to Paksitan Parliment. Additionally the head quarters is a non desript buildings compound which is surrounded by high walls and always has army guards posted. It is not a white building like the one shown

trueblood 17:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] REALITY (Mr.TRUE BLOOD)

This country is running despite of so many hardships only due to secret info collected by isi.As far as the judges are concerned,they are busy in gaining personal interest.They can never be sincere to this beloved soil.They are busy in making money and gaining fame by destroying Army's image.True blood,remember one thing,it is our responsibility to protect and safeguard the image of our army.It is the only intitutiion which is working 24hrs sincerely to make sure no one dares to cause any harm to this country.And isi is making sure all is going on well and there is no obstacle in the path of success.Your opinion about isi is quite negative.When you do not know the facts then better shut up !

[edit] Article's structure

This article is composed of a variety of lists which make it in form of trivia article. The structure of this article should be rebuilt. I think that we shouldn't divide into two distinctive sections (Major successes and Major failure) for operations, instead merging into one under the same header, for example "Major operations" and arrange the events according to timeline. The division of "success" and "failure" makes it a little biased and original research. Why is it considered a success or a failure? Further, I see that this article still lacks a lot of required citations, for example the recruitment and the training sections with no citations given. @pple 03:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The history section is also not verified by reliable sources. It has only two four citations, which appears to be from one source totse.com. Information from this site shouldn't be used on Wikipedia, because TOTSE is an forum-based site of which primary goal is to promote freedom of speech. Thus I'll remove this reference. @pple 03:45, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
I used the R&AW template to build this article. Mercenary2k 22:25, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A thought

How ever i think so that every body is going to ignore the role of Pakistan,s paramilitry forces in Pakistan wars and in the days of peace.specialy i want to show you the one of the best and same like Pakistan Army a force which has every thing and capabalities and some where they are more then Permanenet Army of pakistan , so it is requested to Plz write down a complete feature and information on this .

Thanx

Uh.....what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.157.60.147 (talk) 21:05, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WHY ???

Why at the start of history there is a paragraph about Narendra Modi ??

Doesnt make no sense.In the paragraph of history of ISI there should be only history about it nothing else nothing more.

Whoever wrote it does he/she have any proof of what he is talking about ??

Don't worry. It was a piece of nonsense and you were quite justified in deleting it. - Max - You were saying? 16:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ISI - Its Notorious History and Inhuman Operations:

I have seen ISI closely and know that these are the people who have no shame and humanity in them. They are not sincere with Pakistan, Pakistani people or Islam. They are there to suppress true Islam. Pakistan is the only country who was created to look after its Army. Normally Army is there to provide security to the residents of a state. This is evident from the facilities, salaries and benefits army personal in Pakistan enjoy. Army personal are of average intelligence and trained to fight enemy but Pakistan army is trained in corruption. Army officers (both retired and in service) are honoured with civilian departments administrations like WAPDA, NADRA, CDA and not only that in the political setup as well, ie Mushraf and his gang (who would probably don’t know even the definition of GDP). How one can expect from him to administer affair of the state. ISI has used its own innocent people and people around the world in name of Islam for Terrorism. List of examples is end less. One example of this terrorism which I specifically want to quote here is astonishing which makes you think how brutal few people could become for their own greed and benefits. Early quarter of 2007 ISI launched an operation in the border villages of Azad Kashmir viz Kotli, Sansha, Rawalakot, Aabbaspur etc. The purpose of this was to harass people using ISI’s old notorious techniques i.e. brutal killings, torturing etc. ISI agents’ sprayed some type of gas which made people unconscious. Once unconscious, they cut their throats with some sharp object. They started this operation from areas nearing Line of Control like Bhimber, kotli. The moved to suburbs of Rawalakot (singalo) where 2 of the ISI agents were caught by people of Rawalakot just after they went to a primary school and sprayed gas on innocent children. They were brought to civil police administration from where they were taken by military. ISI blamed that these were Indian intelligence agents. The question is why ISI would do that? Pakistan military has never been sincere with Pakistan or its People. The recent compromise with India and opening of borders from Muzffarabad is viewed a great threat to Pakistan Army. If Line of Control between both Kashmirs is finished then this scapegoat for army would be finished. Pakistan Army takes more than 75% budget form exchequer. In return what army has given back is lost half of the country, lost 4 wars with India, Killed thousands of its own innocent people in Bluchistan, Karachi, NWFP, FATA and FANA. 75% population of Pakistan lives in villages who are still deprived from the basic amenities of life like, roads, schools, electricity, clean water, sanitation etc. A junior army officer even after retirement gets millions of dollars worth of land and money not to talk about during service and in return they rob the country. I sincerely believe that ISI is a major cause of instability in the region and provides its western Masters a highway of opportunities to launch a war on Islam and suck out resources from the Islamic Lands. It backs up, trains and funds all so called Islamic militant groups to proxy terrorism which has no place in Islam. The children of ISI officers study in universities in London and Newyork. How do they afford it. As long as ISI is fulfilling its western Masters wills, west has given freehand to them in order to commit all the brutalities against innocent people. Division of indopak subcontinent was planned by West through her agents like Jinnah and is maintained by her agents like Pakistani secret services.

[edit] ISI and Taliban

Hi,

ISI has a definite history with Taliban. I have started a new section to discuss current relationship due to Bhutto assassination. I notice that there has been a lot of text deleted out of hand linking ISI with specific terrorist attacks, put in by others; I have added it back.

You can't fund terrorists without begetting terrorism eventually.

So let's discuss this.

I will add back in this text if it keeps getting deleted, until it is properly discussed.

Each of these allegations is linked to a Wikipedia article or a news sources.

Rather than deletion out of hand I think the more responsible things to do are:

  • Cite articles with different evidence
  • Identify the point of view of the cited articles, i.e. wikilink to the author or organization of the article if there are already articles on those author or organizations
  • Similarly edit the linked-to Wikipedia articles if they show WP:POV or lack of balance or are logically inconsistent

Thanks, Erxnmedia (talk) 16:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Ek1.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Ek1.jpg

Image:Ek1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 13:04, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Admission for stdy or training

I am 15 years old and I have interest in intelligency. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.163.70.29 (talk) 16:45, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Dawood ibrahim.jpg

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[edit] ISI and militant groups

These accusations have been made and are sourced. There is no POV in the article as to whether the accusations have any basis in fact or not. The article is simply saying that they have been made in reliable sources. As such, they are encyclopaedic and should not be removed. Harry the Dog WOOF 19:29, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

No they shouldn't but I do question the necessity of putting Indian-news media sources. Everytime there is a bombing in India, the entire media there blames Pakistan's ISI. I might remove them unless they are cited by another non-Indian source. --→ Ãlways Ãhëad (talk) 01:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Completely agree. All of these so called accusations come from Indian Media which is notorios for jumping the gun and blaming ISI for every single bombing that occurs in India. 216.13.76.61 (talk) 19:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)