Talk:Institutions in the Southern Victory (Timeline-191) series

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There have been some well-intentioned additions to this article, but the basis of this article is solely the Harry Turtledove Southern Victory novels. If there isn't a citation in the Turtledove books, please do not put additional materials in. --GABaker 2301 UTC 4 October 2005


Contents

[edit] Was the Ark Royal the first carrier in this timeline?

If there is some evidence in the Turtledove books that HMS Ark Royal was built, then what the article says is correct. However, since the POD was in 1862, and the technology is slightly different between the timelines, there is no evidence any nation built an aircraft carrier before USS Rememberance was built. --GABaker 1422 UTC 8 October 2005

In general, military technology past point of departure is slightly ahead of our timeline. So it's generally pretty safe to say if the UK built something in ours it was built in theres unless contradicted by something else in the series. Jon 18:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parties added

It's directly stated in the books that Blaine & Lincoln were the only Republican presidents so I've added that. How Few Remain & the Great War series clearly state that since the formation of CS parties the Whig party has always been dominant and held the Presidency up to and including the Great War. So the only questions are how long in this timeline was the CS like the early days of the US prior to our parties developing. In any case, the Whigs would definately have claimed Lee as one of their own weather or not the Whigs existed as a party by then or not. (Similar to Federalists claiming Washington as one of their own in our timeline.) Jon 18:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] article getting too long and arranged poorly

I would sugest that basically this article be split in a few articles. One that deals with US in Timeline 191, another dealing with the CS in Timeline 191, and another which will initally be much smaller that deals with Quebec in Tineline 191. This article would then become a summary with a list of nations with a sentence about them in timeline 191 with links to those articles and contain any remaining material not more approatively placed in one of the country articles. This would help make this article more like the layout of those articles dealing with Honorverse. Jon 23:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the article is getting too long. I don't want to see a multiplicity of articles on the subject; if we do that, we might cross the line into fannish obsession. GABaker 02:51 3 Aug 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maps?

Does anyone familiar with the series want to make some maps of the political divisions in the world in this timeline? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.137.222.158 (talk) 07:11, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

The main page for timeline 191 and the various wars would probably be better places for them because three of the North American wars result in territorial changes in North America. There's already a great war map on both the timeline 191 page and the one dealing with the great war in timeline 191 with a few inaccuraceries that need corrected. Jon 20:10, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Singluar vs Plural

"It is important to note that, unlike our timeline, the collective nouns "United States" and "Confederate States" are plural, not singular, indicating a different way of thinking about the nation. General Clarence Potter, for example, notes "The United States want to kill me" in In at the Death." Actually this is contradicted in one of the American Empire novels by a scene with Armstrong in a high school classroom saying precisely that in the US it was plural prior to the War of Southern Independence and is now singular. Jon 19:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

It could be; however, the older people in In at the Death use the names in the plural. I suspect Turtledove overlooked this detail in earlier books.GABaker 16:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually it appeared to be the whole reason for the high school scene was emphanzing that the name change did occur (at least in the remaints of the US) in TL 191 like ours along with both the US & CS having being more centralized post War of Southern Indepedence than before. As to older people, Turtledove has repeatly had older view point chars use outdated terms. For instance "bully" is still used by Dowling[sp?] in the 1941 War. Jon 18:09, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] General Ranks

I seem to recall that Custer made full general; were there any other officers in the U.S. Army who made full general in this timeline? Morrell and Dowling are army commanders and are only major generals. The U.S. didn't create a lieutenant general in our timeline until Grant was made one in 1863, which obviously didn't happen in Timeline-191 GABaker 16:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

It would probably be too numerious to list the common chars differing final ranks even among generals. The wartime promotions would have started to diverge almost insantly considering it completely changes Lee's campiagn thru Maryland. It would have been completely scampled up by 1900 with the major changes in the Indian War campaigns and the Second Mexican War alone. Jon 18:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] China

This article is placing China on the side of the Entente in the Great War and the Central Powers in the Greater War. In the whole series I have not seen any reference to China being an ally of anybody during either of these wars. Jon 18:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

When George Enos Senior is held in a Confederate camp after being captured in American Front, the guards comment on China joining with the CSA and the Allies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.183.208 (talk) 14:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ireland

This article used to have information about Ireland. What was its role in the novels, and its status at the end of the series? 204.34.157.10 (talk) 17:19, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

During The Great War, the US gave weapons to the Irish. After the war, Ireland became an independant country and part of the Entente. The British occupied it again during World War II, though as the war is now over, Ireland has re-gained its independance. (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lists of Presidents

Can we please stop adding names to the lists of Presidents of both nations based on speculation only? The only source we should use is the Turtledove universe, which isn't a shared universe.GABaker (talk) 15:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)