Talk:Institutional racism

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[edit] casteism

Isn't casteism a form of racism? --m 07:17, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "functionally integrated"?

What does "functionally integrated" mean? -- The Anome 09:49, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

I didn't write this that passage, but it means that the disparate elements of racism and bigotry in institutional racism function in an integrated manner, as part of a gestalt. Say, a racist employer in a loan company won't hire blacks above a certain level -- custodial staff, secretaries, low-level clerks, but never loan officers or managers with the power to grant loans. The company policy is also to redline black businesses and neighborhoods -- or, the predominantly white staff individually treats applications from blacks differently than they do applications from others. There is no one w/a conscience on the inside to call them on their unlawful behavior, so the practice continues over time, black applicant after black applicant.
As a result, black businesses either fail, do not thrive and can't expand. Black entrepreneurs don't have opportunities commensurate with their other-race counterparts. Because of racist lending practices, homeowners may lose their homes, or cannot obtain mortgages. There's little employment within the community, because cash-strapped, undercapitalized minority businesses cannot afford to hire, or cannot compete for a quality workforce. Lack of employment opportunities means some people who might not do so otherwise turn to destructive livelihoods that undermine the safety and well-being of the communities in which they reside -- in short, violent street crime, burglaries, drugs. Real estate agents also frequently do not show house-hunting blacks properties located in nonblack neighborhoods. Because of white flight (occasioned by racism and fear) and black flight (occasioned by the opportunities of integration and financial means) and the subsequent ghettoization of America's inner cities into islands of poverty and crime; and the lack of a loan, a moderate- or low-income family may not then be able to find an affordable home in a step-up (white or black) neighborhood, where the schools are better. The higher incidence of street crime occasioned by all sorts of factors -- among them, lack of legitimate employment -- causes law enforcement to treat the majority of black males they see as suspects. The result is racial profiling and other discriminatory practices. Blacks are denied service at certain establishments, they are followed around while they shop, and doors are closed in their faces because shopowners fear robberies.
One scenario is that blacks actually can obtain loans -- but at far higher rates than their like-situated, nonblack counterparts. Cash-strapped black families may go without dental appointments and health insurance, juggling bills from month to month. That results in poorer health, delaying doctor visits until an undetected ailment possibly has reached a life-threatening stage. And it results in lousy credit ratings. No credit cards, and people pay higher prices on layaway, or go without.
No access to loans means Blacks are forced to live in an area they can afford -- a possibly dangerous community with failing schools. The family also cannot get a loan for new car when the old one breaks down. They resort to public transportation, which means they cannot get to the food-barn type, big box stores in the suburbs and end up paying higher prices for groceries, children's clothes and other items than their white counterparts. The children obtain a crappy education and end up either dropping out and falling victim to the ills that beset many low-income urban ghettoes, or emerge ill-prepared to compete in the workforce. They get caught up in the criminal justice system, or get low-paying jobs, and the cycle of poverty continues.
I could go on about the "they all look alike" syndrome in eyewitness testimony, coerced confessions, and the prison system, inequities in sentencing based on powdered cocaine and crack cocaine, etc., racism in the application of the death penalty, differences in the way white-collar crime involving millions (and billions) of dollars is prosecuted and punished versus the way street crime involving tens or hundreds of dollars is handled, etc. -- but I think you get the idea. That's what "functionally integrated" means. Racism operates as a system of working parts (kind of like a Rube Goldberg device), rather than an isolated incident; rather than a cluster of random, haphazard events, that militate against the progress of a person, or groups of persons, based on color/ethnic identity. deeceevoice 13:36, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removed paragraph on immigration law

I removed the following paragraph, because I think it deals more with the socio-economic repercussions of immigration law, than institutional racism itself. Thoughts?

This kind of racism puts a burden to local economies due the sub exploitation of human resources, less income for a professional that performs menial jobs means less taxes and increases the strain on a government's social spending and tax payers. This circular logic produces social tension and clashes blaming those that fall victim of this practice as responsible for the deterioration of the economy.

Peruvianllama 06:39, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] canadaimmigrants.com link

The link reference to canadaimmigrants.com should be reviewed by more readers. It appears to censor messages that provide evidence contrary to central message of the website. Is wikipedia potitically neutral? (preceding unsigned comments by 24.17.157.176 (talk · contribs))

You may be interested to read WP:NPOV for info on Wikipedia's stance on neutrality. As for the link itself, unless it's totally irrelevant, I personally don't think it should be removed. Perhaps its bias could be made clear in its description - 'canadaimmigrants.com - a group strongly opposing Canadian immigration laws', or something similar but better written. --PeruvianLlama(spit) 09:48, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Carmicheal was a member of the Black Panther Party and became a black separatist, I am only adding information listed in his biography so please don't revert it again, unless you change his biography as well (unsigned post)

Actually, I knew Stokely personally and never thought of him as a Panther, associating him instead with SNCC, the AAPRP and Pan-Africanism. He was connected with the BPP for a year before finding he clashed on important issues. It's a bit misleading to characterize him as a Panther. Further, Stokely was a nationalist and a Pan Africanist. When I see "separatist," I think RNA, which Stokely was not. He was a nationalist; there's a difference. deeceevoice 15:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Institutional Racism does not equal Structural Racism

These two are not equal! This article incorrectly conflates the two. Structural racism is larger, and deals with the how the interactions within and between different institutions, in combination with social processes and norms and individual racism, work to create different outcomes along racial lines. _laura t

I haven't even read the entire article. My eye was drawn to the weasely POV. But if you think that's the case, then rewrite it. I don't even have the patience right now to deal with the rather weak example given -- though I did delete the religion example. With all the real institutional racism out there -- and especially given my explanation of it earlier on this page -- you'd think they could do better than culturally biased standardized testing (assuming they really wanted to, which, IMO, seems highly doubtful).deeceevoice 22:06, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


Why isn't there any evidence on this page to suggest that institutional racism is anything more than a theory? It is treated as a fact, why is there no 'con' section? Redlining and restrictive covenants are both by now irrelevant. Ethnic mascots are used to depict white groups as well as others, there is nothing racist about it. If standardized tests were so biased against 'minorities' Asians would not do so well on them. Asians are also excluded from race-based preferences because they do so well in the U.S., they somehow escaped the tightrope of systemic racism. Minorities (blacks and Latinos) are overrepresented in the prison population because they commit more crime, I don't see how an individual's actions and bad choices in life can be blamed on others. In a sociological sense, I would consider this idea pseudoscientific, it meets no basic standards. Although, with the state of sociology as it is, it doesn't surprise me that institutional racism is heralded as it is amongst the know-nothing anti-intellectual "progressives" that muddy up sociology departments across the country.

Deeceevoice, in blaming black crime on anyone and everyone but blacks, you fail to recognize that blacks have high crime rates where ever they are in the world. Whether it is in the U.S., Haiti, Europe or Africa. Your silliest example is the handling of white-collar crime. It is classist, not racist. This is obvious when you consider the fact that most poor people in this country are in fact white, so it affects more whites than blacks. Do you want us to assume that whites are willing to hurt themselves in such a way just to stick it to black people? If blacks are followed around in stores or not picked up by taxis that is because blacks commit a disproportionate rate of shop-lifting and taxi-robbing crimes. Considering the fact that many of those taxi drivers aren't even white, and that many of the workers eyeballing black customers aren't white, it is safe to assume that the culprit isn't white racism, but rather common sense. (unsigned post)

-- -->The majority of the two paragraphs above are totally irrelevant to "institutional racism" and "structural racism" as encylopedia entries and should have no bearing on the content of this entry. That is, with the exception that adding the tag "theory" or a "con" section might be useful. This isn't a blog where we can spout off our political opinions about black crime, it is an encyclopedic entry on a body of (contested or not) theory. Let's keep it at that please! _laura t 8/23/06

And who says I blame black crime on anyone and everyone but blacks? Please. Take your silly ASSumptions elsewhere -- preferably away from this talk page. Laura t has it right. Your nonsense has absolutely nothing to do with this article. *x* deeceevoice 15:21, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] White Racism

Some one must write articles about racism by one racial group, and how go ahead. White Racism and anothers. 212.97.182.180 08:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Affirmative Action???

Some one explain HOW Affirmative Action is Institutional Racism???!!!??? It's Institutional Racism NOT to have Affirmative Action. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Carlon (talk • contribs) 18:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

Institutional racism is favouring one race over another in burocratic processes, so AA qualifies by this definition. Quote from the article:
Institutional racism (or structural racism or systemic racism) refers to a form of racism which occurs specifically in institutions such as public bodies, corporations, and universities.
Read before asking stupid questions. --Zslevi (talk) 20:44, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

What does this have to do with the article? Suicidesamurai 20:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Academic racism

Academic racism is unsourced and it seems that the content of it is covered by this article. CJ 12:40, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Classification contentious?

I added the following sentence to the end of the second paragraph:

As with the more general term of "racism", "institutional racism" carries with it a socially negative connotation which can make accurate classification contentious.

along with a "fact" tag. To me, that seems like something that is anecdotally true: no-one wants to be called a racist, and so any such claim will be contested with a list of facts as long as your arm. But at the same time, it seems like weaseling out if I don't have a source. I just have no idea where to look in the literature for such a source. Or even what literature in which to look. Thoughts? Is it worth keeping it in and hoping for a source? Better yet, can someone source it? --PeruvianLlama(spit) 21:37, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Examples of institutional racism

The example of the eagle feather law is not a form of institutional racism. It is unref'd and incorrect. I am removing this material. Phyesalis 21:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] links to page about Institutionally Racist pollicies

shouldn't there be links to say apartate in south africa or slavery in the U.S.A. and other things like that i just listed a couple because i see it has there sections about the U.K. and sri lanka which i think is irrelevant because those are two random countries Charlieh7337 (talk) 03:48, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sri Lanka section

I've tagged this with a 'Totally disputed' flag and the entire first paragraph with attribution necessary tags. Frankly, it's an obvious nationalist POV rant and, arguably, comes close to being racist itself. If these sorts of claims are being made they need to be properly sourced.--Major Bonkers (talk) 09:20, 7 February 2008 (UTC)