Talk:Ingrid Bergman

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[edit] Education

She attended the University of Malmo at some point--my grandmother went to school with her. Does anyone have information on this?

She went straight from the Royal Dramatic Theater to working in films. I've read her entire autobiography, and there is no mention of the University of Malmo. --PhantomS 04:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:11, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I would say she is not a gay icon Franz-kafka 18:01, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I'm gay, but do not consider Ingrid Bergman to be more of a gay icon than hundreds of other female movie stars. Bergman is an icon to all.

[edit] Images

I like the addition of the Casablanca image but I wonder if we really need the shot of her at 14 anymore. 23skidoo 01:22, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't like that image either; it's not very representative of how most people think of her. The Singing Badger 02:41, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
It's a nice picture; leave it in. On a more serious note, I think those responsible for this article should read her autobiography. There are a lot of errors and slurs here. Sune Slips
Actually, I have. At least 3 times. Could you be specific as to the "errors and slurs"? I did note an uncited comment about her last husband which I deleted, and there was unnecessary bolding in the paragraph about her becoming a pariah in the US re:Rossellini. If there are errors, please be bold and correct them. 23skidoo 02:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
It seems to be a suitable early life picture. It would be nice if we could include a photo from around the time of Cactus Flower as well to show the longevity of her career. PhantomS 08:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good edit

I'm glad to see the unsourced claim that she committed suicide removed from the article. If anyone puts it back, it had better be with a rock solid source. 23skidoo 22:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date of death

The death certificate seems fairly conclusive about 30 August. I wonder why all the sources we quote say she died on 29 August. Even the "official Ingrid Bergman" website seems to have it wrong. Maybe this was the date in the US when her death was reported, and the date was misreported at the time and the misinformation has stuck ever since. Any other theories? JackofOz 11:28, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I've always heard 29 August, myself. It's possible the 30 August date was a clerical error (that has happened before). Alternately it's possible the date on the certificate is the date on which the certificate was filed. Perhaps Ingrid died on the 29th but this wasn't discovered until the 30th? Didn't she die in her sleep? 23skidoo 14:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
One web site says that she died in her sleep at the end of her 67th birthday, 29th of August 1982. Probably the death certificate was filed on the 30th.
--Gabi S. 10:55, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
She died at the end of August 29th during the night. The day before, on the 28th, the cancer had advanced to her spine and collapsed her twelth verterbra, causing her to be on diamorphine and to be bedridden. On the 29th, it was discovered by the doctor that her right lung had collapsed and that only an upper third of the left was still working; therefore, it was known that she wouldn't be lasting much longer. In addition, at this point, she was going in and out of consciousness and her breathing was labored. At 3:30 a.m. on the 30th, her cousin Britt, who was sleeping in the next room, woke up and decided to check on Ingrid after not hearing her breathing. At that time, she was discovered to be dead.
--PhantomS 00:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
A similar confusion over the exact date of death occurred with a friend of mine, Johnny Grande, who likewise passed away overnight, leading to two different dates of death being reported in the media. 23skidoo 04:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Revisiting this issue. OK, so she certainly died no later than 3:30am on 30th, but possibly before midnight on 29th. We can hypothesise forever about typos on the DC, but that's all hot air as far as the historical record is concerned. The death certificate is that record, and it says death occurred on 30th. Who has the right to challenge that? Is there any evidence that death occurred prior to midnight? If so, where is it? At the very least, we need to report what the DC says, then perhaps explain why the world regards her as having died on the 29th. This is Wikipedia after all, not some fan site. JackofOz 04:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I've just been leafing through a biography of Bergman in a bookshop. It said she died at 3pm, on the afternoon of her birthday, Sunday 29 August. There was at least one witness, who saw her take her last breath. Whether that information is from primary sources is something we can only guess at. So what we have are the following differing dates and times:
  • 29 August, 3 pm
  • 29 August, late (during the night)
  • 30 August, 3.30 am
  • 30 August (death certificate - no time mentioned) [1].
To remain credible, I think we simply cannot just ignore the death certificate in the article. It was at one time available via a link, but has since been removed. That, to me, is a very dishonest approach to the use of primary sources. We have to either accept the certificate as accurate and use 30 August as Ingrid's death date, or explain why it is not accurate and use 29 August. The best I can come up with at the moment is that the doctor (or whoever) made an error when filling it out - but that is just my supposition, based on the fact that most sources say she died on 29 August. I want to return the birth certificate link to the article, but am having some trouble coming up with the words to explain why we do not accept it as being accurate. Can anyone assist? -- JackofOz 05:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image deletion

I reverted the deletion of the Notorious image on the grounds that it does fall into fair use because it illustrates Bergman's work and the article itself serves as a description of one of the film's "contents" - namely the actress. If the issue is that there's no discussion of Notorious, then someone can easily add it. There is overwhelming precident for the use of such images on Wikipedia -- including, I may add, the Casablanca image at the top of this article. 23skidoo 15:41, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fugitive in Vienna

I saw this movie listed in the film lists included with her Miami Herald and Washington Post obituaries. Furthermore, the Washington Post also included Simulantia as a separate entry. However, Fugitive in Vienna is nowhere to be found in IMDB. Does anyone have any information on this? --PhantomS 10:27, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recordings

Missing from this article, I think, are references to at least 3 recordings Bergman made. One was an audio version of The Human Voice, another was a "talking book" of Inn of the Sixth Happiness, and her radio performance of Casablanca (opposite Humphrey Bogart and Paul Henreid again) was released to albums in 1970s and later CD. I lack date and other release information for these, otherwise I'd add them myself. 23skidoo 19:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The radio performances are now public domain and can be picked up at several websites. In fact, I think I linked to the Casablanca versions by both the original cast and by Hedy Lamarr. As for the audio book version of Inn of the Sixth Happiness and spoken word version of The Human Voice, I have found internet sources for these and have subsequently introduced a table to the credits section. --PhantomS 22:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
By the way, photos of the LP can be seen here, while a Time magazine article on it from 1963 can be found here. Image of The Small Woman case can be seen here. --PhantomS 23:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death section

What does "She was honored posthumously by Ingmar Bergman" mean? What did he do to honor her? JackofOz 05:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

No response, so I've removed the sentence. -- JackofOz 03:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ingrid Bergman and Ingmar Bergman (and his wife Ingrid)

Could someone please clarify (as if no one knows; there's world out there) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.203.109.67 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

We do say in the Trivia section that, although they worked together, Ingrid Bergman and Ingmar Bergman were not related. It's just a coincidence that Ingmar Bergman's 5th wife's name also happened to be Ingrid. -- JackofOz 03:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Corrected book Title

Corrected comment about Alan Burgess. Article originally claimed he wrote The Inn of the Sixth Happiness, when in fact the book he wrote was called The Small Woman, on which the Movie The Inn of the Sixth Happiness was based. The correct title of his book is confirmed by The DVD audio commentary of the movie, the text on the back of the DVD case, and the 'Critical reaction' section of the Wikipedia article on The Inn of the Sixth Happiness. Alexander 05:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Her mother

Her mother was Friedel Adler. Adler is a Jewish surname. I'm self Jewish, and my mom's name is Adler, and she has no German ancestry, but actually she's a Jew from Germany. Ingrid's mother was a Jewish woman from Germany, with Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry from Russia, Poland, Hungary and Germany. I heard that in an interview with her daughter, Isabella Rossellini in a Swedish magazine, Icakuriren. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.210.85.30 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC).

If you read her autobiography, you'll find that her mother's family was Lutheran and that she had pro-Nazi relatives on that side. By the way, you might want to look at Jewish name. --PhantomS 07:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment

Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 10:16, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Little To No Makeup

The article currently states, "her appearance was entirely natural with little to no makeup". I have a hard time believing this. Anyone who appears in on tv or in a film needs to be caked with makeup, or the lighting will wash out their features. I'm not saying she wasn't naturally pretty, but to say she didn't need makeup is to not understand the industry. Also, the article says she got her first Academy Award nomination the same year as Casablanca, but that doesn't make any sense. 68.253.25.151 (talk) 14:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with "not understanding the industry." This is in the article because it is highly unusual and makes Bergman stand out as a remarkably pretty woman. It's also stated directly in more than one major biographies of her. In addition, she received no nominations for "Casablanca," but she did for "For Whom the Bell Tolls," which came out the same year, in terms of awards. So yes, it does make sense. Icarus of old (talk) 17:04, 22 May 2008 (UTC)