Template talk:Infobox WorldScouting

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Scouting Wiki Project Template Infobox WorldScouting is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Contents

[edit] Image

I'm not sure of the purpose of this infobox, but you might want to switch the image to "Scoutsgreengoldnoscroll.png". --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Done, Ed, and what I intend to do (though it doesn't yet look right) can be seen at Afghan Scout Association. Chris 01:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wim!

Thanks, brother, you've done a great job! Are you familiar with Piet Kroonenberg? Chris 18:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Thanks for the kind words. I don't know mr Kroonenberg personally, but I know of him. Not enough to do an article, though. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 20:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Chief Scout problems

At the moment, this infobox is used on both the WAGGGS and WOSM pages. This means that the top people in these organisations are labelled "Chief Scout". I agree these names should be in the infobox, but neither of these people are in fact Chief Scouts of the organisations. Could this be fixed somehow?

Also, in the template the chiefscout field desciption indicates 'name of president or equivalent'. Some organisations have presidents and Chief scouts (like The Scout Association). Could this be looked into as well? Thank you. Kingbird 17:29, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

  • What do you wat, Kingbird? How about making the text 'Chief Scout or equivalent'? The template is about scout organizations and such, so I'd rather keep the Chief Scout denomination. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 20:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC).
Another problem: the WOSM entry has this template, too. Who should go there? I put B.-P., as the only World Chief Scout ever. But previously there was the chairman of the committee (who has no special role in WOSM).
Yet another problem: what about Guide associations?
My proposal: change to "head" or something as generic.
--Lou Crazy 01:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

There is no problem, merely a difference in interpretation. The 'chiefscout' field in the template is intented to list the current head of the organization. As this template is about Scout organizations and similary entities, this is often a Chief Scout. To make the template more generic, I added 'or equiv.' it. And the World Scout Committee it the executive board of the WOSM, so the chairman of it is the person intended in this field. He does not need any special role other than being the head of the organization. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 19:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC).

If the field is to list the head of an organization, then "head" is a better term. Chief scout is wrong with respect to all guide associations, and a "president" is not equivalent to a chief scout (that's why so many associations have both roles). For WOSM, let's discuss it in the WOSM page. --Lou Crazy 23:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
The head or president or chairman or chief or whatsoever. It being a Scout subject, the heads are typically known as Chief Scout or equivalent, which is exactly as it is reading now. So not only the issue of the WOSM is solved, in my humble opinion it is generic enough now. Thanks for pointing this opportunity out, and for suggestion the improvement. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
It isn't generic enough yet. Unless we want a separate infobox for guide organizations, we can't use the word "scout".
Look at it now... --Lou Crazy 23:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Nah, don't like it. But I'll let other decide, otherwise we'll wind up reverting. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 19:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC).
    • I have added an optional field chiefscouttitle where you can add any title of your choice. See AGESCI and WAGGGS for a really heady implementations, or The Scout Association for default behaviour. And it's only used when chiefscout is available too. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 20:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC).
      • Sorry I haven't been able to contribute in the last few days. I think the solution is better than anything I would have suggested. Thank you for getting this sorted out so fast. Kingbird 01:08, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
It looks perfect now. The solution you used for AGESCI and WOSM looks OK. I'd just add a note in the comments, if you don't mind. --Lou Crazy 01:47, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Logos in the template

I tried the template on AGESCI and the logo was rescaled badly. What can be done about it? --Lou Crazy 23:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Don't use GIFs. They scale badly. See the same file as PNG in the article now. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 19:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC).
Didn't know that. I'll add a note in the comments. --Lou Crazy 01:47, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal

Why don't we add the portal to the bottom of the box? --evrik (talk) 02:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Yes, why don't we? I don't know, so I did. ;-) Wim van Dorst (Talk) 18:08, 11 November 2006 (UTC).

The text Portal: Scouting is difficult to see on the olive background. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:23, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

  • True, it is the default link colour. I don't mind it being a little low-key. There's always the real Portal button in the See Also section. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC).
From Wikipedia:WikiProject_Scouting#Templates: Scouting Portal: Please put this on all article main pages in the See also section unless it uses the BSA box, which it includes it. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:35, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


What about if we were to put the actual portal box right inside the info box, so it would show up and would automatically be transcluded? Chris 19:21, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

You can't include the template of the portal, as it will show all wrong alignment (tried it). Instead I emphasized the link of the portal, equivalent to the portal button, and I added the logo. As we chose the colours of the infobox to be similar to a colour of the logo, that part doesn't show up. And personally, I think that logo here overdone. Unless you all start yelling here that it is excellent, I'll remove it again. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 20:41, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

That looks pretty good now. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:35, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scouting

I think this should show Scouting in each type name instead of Scout. Thus Scouting campsite, Scouting organization, etc. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:44, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

  • edited. Now, especially the Scouting Organization comes out very wide in my browser, wrapping to two lines. How is it on the other screens? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 20:42, 17 February 2007 (UTC).
  • added 1/17th of an em, now it fits. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 21:00, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

Looks good. Thanks for listening to my nitpicking. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:33, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coordinates

I just noticed that {{Infobox nrhp}} has the coordinates actually in the infobox. This makes it more obvious what those numbers are for. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi Ed, nice idea. To find out how it works, I browsed to the articles that link to the template, and found that the optional coordinates are not often used (I found one out of ten I tried). And I can understand why: the coordinates templates (it is a whole range) are very tough to get to work at all. The information is not easily changed from the one format to the other. Therefore is is difficult to provide the coordinates information in the form as chosen for this template. And it misses out on the important additional info in the coord templates as well. So bottomline, I wouldn't know which coordinates template to implement, although I find the idea appealing. Would you have any idea how? On the other hand, the coordinates in the right hand top corner are getting pretty common in Wikipedia, so I guess people get to recognizes those numbers for what they are. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 21:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC).
I think I got this. See Template:Infobox_WorldScouting/testcases for samples. The updated template is in Template:Infobox_WorldScouting/sandbox. I put this under the location. The only minor issue is the font size. At the standard 95%, the coord break across a line; at 90% there is no break but the font is smaller than the rest. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Long image names

FYI- If you have a long image name the image will not show unless you replace the spaces with underscores. For example, Image:Boy Scouts of America 50-Miler Award Patch.jpg would not show until I changed it to image = Boy_Scouts_of_America_50-Miler_Award_Patch.jpg. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi Ed, I tried it out (see my talk page), and found no problems. Are you sure there wasn't a typo or something else wrong? Uppercase/lowercase, perhaps? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 21:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC).
    • Figured it out. If you include image-size = with no parameter, then it will not show the image. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Enhancements

A few ideas that might be nice:

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of Default Image

Would it be possible to have an option so as we don't see the default image? Or to remove the default image all together? It makes Scouting in Victoria very cluttered but I don't want to remove the infoboxes. :: maelgwn :: talk 06:05, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I made a change to that article. If you don't like it, just revert it. The infobox is designed for one use per article with the box directly referring to the subject of the article, not multiple uses per article. You can also use the option image-size option, see template's main page. Rlevse 10:29, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Aye, didnt think of that. Thanks :: maelgwn :: talk 13:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

You can use:

| image = blank.png | image-size = 1px

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:57, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] wording at top

Must it bear the name "Scouting organization"? The country infobox Template:Infobox Country doesn't likewise say "Country" at the top, it goes right into the country's name in multiple languages. It's kind of distracting and looks weird on the main Scouting article. Could we instead have the top area be where the name of the organization is in its native language, and the English name below the emblem? Chris 04:18, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

User:NThurston can code options like that, just like our project infobox.10:56, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • The wording in the top is defined by the TYPE. In this way it makes it possible to use the same infobox for organizations, campsites, awards, etc. By using this type in the top line, there is consistency over all Scouting organizations, and over all Scouting campsites, etc, that I think is good. And it clearly indicates what this infobox is all about. Using the name in the top line again next to the same name of the article just to the left of it (as indeed is not uncommon in WP) is in my perception a layout error. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 12:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC).
Not if the native name itself is in another script, or if we go to all-English names, as perennially comes up. Chris 18:37, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
The same style is also used at Template:Infobox Person. Layout error or not, it seems to be the more Wiki-acceptable way to have an infobox. Chris 18:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Seems to be fine in its current format. --NThurston 19:04, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coords

I added coordinates to a test version of the infobox at {{Infobox_WorldScouting/sandbox}}. See Template:Infobox_WorldScouting/testcases for samples. The only minor issue is the font size; at the standard 95%, the coords break across a line. The only way I see to do fix without making the font smaller is to make the infobox a bit wider. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:27, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Changing the infobox width from 18 to 19em resolves the line break on the coords; this would also give a bit more room for longer URLs on the website field. The testcases shows 18 vs. 19em boxes. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't see a difference, in both boxes the coords break across a line. --Egel Reaction? 14:36, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Odd—I don't see that in either Firefox or IE7. How about now, at 20em? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Default image

I'm really thinking that it would be better if the image were blank by default. Using the generic logo in an article instead of the organizational logo is not a good practice— it could be considered rather POV, and it becomes a decorative image rather than a useful image. We should use the generic logo only for truly generic articles such as Scouting, Boy Scout, Cub Scout and the like. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:52, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Updates

I would like to make a few changes:

  • Add coordinates
  • Increase the box width from 18em to 20em 22em so that the coordinates don't break across the line
  • Remove the default image

The updated template is in the sandbox and examples are in testcases. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

  • support, it has a nice Wikiocity to it. Chris 02:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Support new version. Will the expanded width accomodate the 'longest/widest' lat/long coordinates possible? No sense changing it if it won't work with all places. —ScouterSig 14:57, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
You got me on that. I expanded the test to three digits on the degrees and found I had to expand the box width. Thanks. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:34, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Why rm the image? People can change it if they want, otherwise ok. — Rlevse • Talk • 14:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Because the default image is being misused. For example: Ring deutscher Pfadfinderverbände is using the image by default; this implies that our generic logo is the official logo of that association. There are many instances where this is happening. It appears many editors don't realize this and don't suppress the image. The generic image should be used only on generic articles. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:34, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Having a generic might be better than being blank. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmm. Ok. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:57, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
But then it gets propagated downstream and folks think it is the official logo. I think it might be a bit POV to use a logo that is not used by the association, and its use becomes merely decorative. Another example: both Klondike derby and Totin' Chip were using the generic logo until I removed it.‎ --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Age Groups in Scouting and Guiding also uses it. Chris 21:22, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but it is not using the template. It is a universal article. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:56, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I thought we were also discussing where it is used purely decoratively. Chris 01:39, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Support for coordinates and image removal (agree with above) but no support for widening: how any text line breaks is totally up to the browser and browser settings, e.g., I typically use firefox with a large font, but sometimes I use MSIE with a small font. And sometime I use a different layout in my user preferences. These various displays of the same content are totally different from eachother. Introducting <br/> and fixed widening (or even more useless: narrowing) of tables and infobox only have countereffective results. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC).
I see your point—there is no way to prevent the line break based on box width. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 23:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Just a suggestion: perhaps not doing away with the image by default altogether, but a stronger text that the default images is NOT to be used on other than generic Scouting articles? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC).
The problem is that many editors will just copy and paste form another article, or copy from the documentation heading without reading deeper. To give another example: Scouting in Andorra. Look how long the template was in use before someone question how to supress the generic logo (see above). Luckily we have a good graphics editor now, so the current version of Scouting in Andorra has a proper logo. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 23:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal: affiliation and defunct fields

Propose adding an optional affiliation field to indicate membership in a Scouting association such as WOSM or WAGGS. Affiliation would be used only in main articles for the Scouting organization, not section articles.

Propose adding an optional defunct field to indicate the date an organization, campsite, award or event was discontinued.

Both fields are illustrated in Template:Infobox WorldScouting/testcases. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:40, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

fine with me. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:40, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
support, that is a great idea. Chris (クリス) (talk) 21:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I also added and illustrated option fields for chiefscout2, chiefscouttitle2, chiefscout3 and chiefscouttitle3. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

These are simple extensions, so I am making them live. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:52, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] image-size

I ripped some code from another template and made a fix to the image-size parameter. If it is included, but the value is left blank, it will no longer display the image name instead of the image. Instead, it defaults to 140px.

--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 16:41, 3 April 2008 (UTC)