Template talk:Infobox Transformers character

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Autobot logo s.jpg

Image:Autobot logo s.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed affiliation logos

I've removed the affiliation logos (Autobot, Decepticon, etc.) since it is a copyright violation against Wikipedia's fairuse policy. The Autobot logo can only be claimed for fair use if it is used on the Autobot article. Likewise with all other affiliation logos. They cannot be used on character pages.

In a similar vein, sports logos can only be used for the respective team pages and not for individual article pages. --Madchester 01:54, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Rank"

Speaking as someone who hasn't delved into Transformers (not counting the movie) in about 15 years, can anyone explain to me the *real-world* significance of "Rank"? I seem to recall that it's a scale of the robots' relative strength -- however, someone not familiar with the line may (mis)interpret that figure as a character's position in some chain of command (i.e. military rank). It also is unclear how large the scale is, and which end of the scale is superior (i.e. is it Richter scale-esque or world championship scale-esque?). I doubt there's any real-world notability/significance to the number -- it's mostly a bit of trivia -- but perhaps might be worth a blurb on a toyline page, which then can be linked to with the "Rank" text in the infobox? Alternatively, it may just be better to delete it from the infobox code entirely. My two bits of energon...--EEMeltonIV 02:02, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Rank is simply a number of the Transformers placement in the Autobots or Decepticon's position in their military, from 1 to 10 usually. Leader at 10 and going down from there. user:mathewignash
Great. But how is that clear in the infobox, and is the "information essential to understanding the entity's context in the overall fiction" (emphasis added)? --EEMeltonIV 22:19, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
It tells up who is in charge and who is middle managment and who is a pee-on in chain of command of the Autobots or Decepticons. Looking at rank we would know Optimus Prime or Prowl is the commander and guys like Slag are troops. It tells us a lot about how the characters relate to each other. Before you remove it again please take up a dialog about this on the Transformers Wiki Project page. user:mathewignash
That is not at all clear in the infobox. Please see my earlier query about how the infobox makes clear the scale -- is a 1 higher ranking or a 10? Is the difference between an 8 and a 9 the same as between a 9 and a 10, or is it a logarithmic scale? Lastly, is it ESSENTIAL knowledge? Considering that none of the Transformer articles I've seen actually mention the rank in the article text, it seems not to be essential. --EEMeltonIV 12:39, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Additionally, this line seems pertinent: "infoboxes about fictional entities should avoid delving into minutiae, such as information only mentioned in supplementary backstory." Rank appears only on the toy packaging -- certainly the digit is never an essential plot point -- and qualifies as "backstory." This would also suggest that "motto," another box-only bit of information, can also be deleted. --EEMeltonIV 02:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Saying a military character's rank certainly is essential in describing them in the grand scheme of their storyline. Besides, are we not waiting to hear back from others in the Project to chime in. user:mathewignash

And if this were as clear a rank as "general" or "lieutenant" it would probably be fine to include. But I have yet to see an article that makes reference to rank (other than Starscream, and that's to explain a packaging discrepancy) -- its lack of use in the articles in explaining the characters/toys suggests that it is not essential knowledge. Additionally, there is no documentation in any of the character articles or in the general "Transformers" toy or fiction article about what rank is. Again, this suggests this bit of information is not essential to understanding the characters/toys. Indeed, it wasn't until I asked on this page what rank means that any place on wikipedia came close to explaining what the digits signify -- and even then several of my preceding questions are unanswered. A casual reader looking at a single article who sees the rank number has absolutely no context clues or other information from which to understand what that number means -- neither the infobox nor any articles explain the scale, the difference between numbers, etc. If someone has to come to the template talk page to understand what a bit of info means, that's a dead giveaway that the information is not essential and, instead, is just trivia and should be deleted per the manual of style. And as for waiting for other responses, well, it's been a week... Perhaps you'd be interested in posting a notice about this in the Transformers toy or fiction articles, which might get more traffic. --EEMeltonIV 02:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Rank originally was meant for titles like "general" and "lieutenant" but was later converted over to numbers by user:mathewignash and others. As to the numbers relevance, Hasbro thought is essential enough to put on every single box and it does serve to denote the characters relations to each other. Motto of course should remain, the info box is about the character and their motto would tell the reader a lot about them - really self-explanatory if you stop to think about it. That's probably why no one has bother to replay I think. --The Matrix Prime 19:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
  • "Rank" and "motto" only offer "insight" in-universe; they offer no relevant information from a real-world out-of-universe perspective. I'm fine for the time being leaving the motto because some modicum of characterization for the fiction is appropriate, but rank is an insignificant piece of trivia and neither the infobox nor any of the Transformers articles provide context for what "rank" means. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how the ranks work in relation to each other -- are the logarithmic? algabraic? is the difference between a 6 and a 7 the same as between a 7 and an 8? But, even with that minutiae, none of has any real-world notability. During your extended departure, Matrix, I hope you've actually read up on WP:WAF, WP:FICT and all the other policies your talk page clearly indicate you've had trouble abiding by. --EEMeltonIV 01:22, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I think you're still a little confused about "insight and relevance" but if you don't have a problem with it anymore that's good as the point becomes moot. I would also hesitate to attempt to point out other users' perceived problems when you have so many of your own. I hope you read up on these pages too as your own talk page as well as others clearly indicate your own trouble in that area, among others, as well. Perhaps Wiki's page of etiquette would be beneficial to you? I think you’ll find a lot more people willing to work with you and will work easier with you if you did. --The Matrix Prime 13:39, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent updates

I just split the documentation off to its own transcluded page rather than having it lying around here.

I'm thinking of more extensive edits to this infobox. I've got a sample at User: Thumperward/infobox Transformers character, with a sample use up at User: Thumperward/Optimus Prime. I've lost the affiliation colouring, but this brings the look of the template more into line with that of other infoboxen. (the switch markup was really heavy anyway.) Chris Cunningham 12:07, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

And now this has been reverted. Sigh. Any comments on the non-controversial changes I made the the markup? If not I'll put it back. Chris Cunningham 12:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Since all the Mottos on a hundred articles already have quotes, I'd think adding quotes to the template would mess up more than it would fix articles. Also, as a personal choice, I like the names centered and the existing font, but obviously that's a personal choice. Would they be better changed? I'd like to hear more opinions. Mathewignash 12:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
About the quotes thing: cool. Just thought it's be better to have this centralised. For the colour thing, it's an awful lot of markup for one presentational detail, and the colours (with the exception of the Autobots/Decepticons) are a bit arbitrary. Both could go back though. What about using the faction colour as the actual font colour, instead of the background? Chris Cunningham 15:39, 4 November 2007 (UTC)