Template talk:Infobox NBA Player

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NBA This article is part of WikiProject National Basketball Association, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide of the NBA on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page, or visit the WikiProject National Basketball Association, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
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Contents


[edit] Overview

This template in intended to create an infobox suitable for all NBA players. It is similar in style to Template:Infobox University2 and Template:Infobox Company on purpose. I believe that previous infoboxes were either too cluttered with too much information or were not aesthetically pleasing. I also believe that WP will benefit from having minimal structural and stylistic uniformity across articles of the same subject and across all articles in general. --gurulegend 02:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pages that link here

Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Infobox_NBA_Player

[edit] Height and Weight

Downwards, please stop reverting the template back to old style height and weight. We're trying to use template:height and template:weight to bring nice automated unit conversion to the infobox.

To accomodate pages that have simple heights and weights, I've made the template accept either {{height}} and {{weight}} or {{height_ft}}, {{height_in}}, and {{weight_lb}}. --gurulegend 02:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Former teams

Hello. Currently, when the "Former teams" parameter is set, a label of "Teams" appears on the displayed Infobox, instead of "Former teams." It seems that this should be changed so that "Former teams" is displayed in the Infobox. I wanted to discuss here, first, though, to see if others objected, find out what would break if this was changed, etc. Lbbzman 23:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Lbbzman, I had it as "Former teams", but changed it because I was really thinking about retired players. "Former teams" will work for them (e.g. Jordan's former teams were the bulls and wizards, they are not his teams now). I don't really know what I was thinking, but I'm down for "Former teams." --gurulegend 01:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Sizes

This conversation is from my talk page. I've added it here because I think it is pertinent. --gurulegend 01:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I see you've added the unit calculators to the template. I've given it a bit of an overhaul, including converting to m:ParserFunctions, which have obsoleted both {{qif}} and HiddenStructure. Unfortunately, attempting to mix wikitable code and parser functions gets rather confusing due to unintended interpretation of the pipe character "|" so I converted it to straight html, and it should work exactly the same as before, with one non-trivial change to the image syntax. This is partly to prevent certain different articles from having drastically different image sizes. The image on the LeBron article was previously 364 pixels tall, but I changed it so that the sizing of all the images is controlled within the template itself. If necessary though, it would still be possible to create a parameter for overriding the default size specification, by changing:

...|200x250px|...]] to
...|{{{image_size|200x250px}}}|...]]

But I don't see any immediate need to add that feature. Let me know if you disagree. By the way, in case you didn't know, specifying two dimensions (instead of just the width) for an image's size will force it to scale down to fit within an imaginary box. This is helpful to prevent disproportionately tall infobox images from dominating the entire right side of the screen. — Jun. 5, '06 [09:56] <freak|talk>

Nice. I think as long as all images seem to appear with decent dimensions and proportions, the template will be great. --gurulegend 20:14, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, the only real problem I forsee, is people attempting to use some really low-resolution images, which will look ugly if stretched too far beyond their actual size. Such images would be better off deleted in my opinion. — Jun. 5, '06 [20:45] <freak|talk>

[edit] Multiple Nationalities

This conversation is from my talk page. I've added it here because I think it is pertinent. --gurulegend 01:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Another question regarding the infobox, since the nationality/flag template has been added, is how best to handle cases like Shawn Bradley, who has dual citizenship in both Germany and the United States, perhaps an optional nationality_2 parameter and show two flags on separate rows? Which do you think looks better:

Nationality Flag of Germany Germany
Flag of the United States United States
or...
Nationality Flag of Germany/Flag of the United States Germany/United States

— Jun. 5, '06 [22:14] <freak|talk>

I think two rows looks better. Don't want those boxes getting too wide. --gurulegend 01:44, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org../../../../articles/s/h/a/Shawn_Bradley_8b58.html Not bad, then? — Jun. 6, '06 [02:32] <freak|talk>

[edit] Can I rip this off?

To Template:Infobox PBA player? (PBA=Philippine Basketball Association)

Nice work, btw. --Howard the Duck 07:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes.
--gurulegend 01:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Can I use this for Croatian Wikipedia? --Deveen 21:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pro career

(Almost) all foreign players were already professional before arriving to the NBA, what is the Pro career intended for? NBA or overall? I've seen it used mostly for NBA carerr, but if so, the caption should be changed to reflect that. See for instance Carlos Delfino Mariano(t/c) 07:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I read it to be the latter, so I have changed the information in Tony Parker to reflect that. ¿ςפקιДИτς! ☺ ☻ 03:29, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NBA Records

Several other pro sports infoboxes have a spot for records. Thoughts? - Raetzsch 14:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

We could add records, but we can't let the box get too large. I think adding an optional parameter for records would be ok. --gurulegend 01:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template flagcountry2 instead of flagcountry

I've changed the template to use the new template:flagcountry2. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Flag Template/January 2007 rework. --Ligulem 13:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

And switched back to Template:Flagcountry again now that they are identical and flagcountry2 will be deprecated. Andrwsc 16:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flagicon for "Nationality" should stay (for now, at least)

The reason why I reverted is because the recent change to this infobox has meant that the flagicon for "Nationality" was "made redundant". This is turn has made the redirections for country codes such as "LTU" (Lithuania) and "CAN" (Canada) stay as is. And when one clicks on LTU, one does not get Lithuania, but instead a disambiguation page. I've also seen some people now change nationality from, example "France" to "French", which is just great, but it creates inconsistencies. If this is allowed, does that mean we have to change all American NBA players' nationalities from "USA" or "United States" to "American"? This is a gross waste of time and resources. I have restored it back to what it was, prior to the 13th June (or whenever). If someone's got a better idea, put it forth - thanks. --Downwards 04:56, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

What exactly is the problem? If the wrong names are used in the infobox, they can be changed rather than continuing this inappropriate use of images. —Centrx→talk • 07:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
The problem is you're not the one who's going to go around performing all these proposed changes, are you? It's the work of others. Extra work that in my opinion is needless. You have not clearly evinced your reasons about why you deem the flagicons to be inappropriate. Just stating "inappropriate" is insufficient. As I said above, if you can implement a better idea, please do! A simple removal of the flagicon is not a solution. --Downwards 22:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Like everything else on the wiki, these changes will happen naturally over time. A bot can also be created to do them. Conversely, using the current formatting requires anyone who uses this template to look up often bizarre and unintuitive country abbreviations. Inasmuch as the abbreviations are a temporary problem to readability, they should never have been used in the first place because they require anyone editing these articles to use the unnatural abbreviations. And what is the purpose of using those unnatural abbreviations? To add inappropriate images to the templates. The flag requirement is what creates extra work. —Centrx→talk • 02:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Also, what is the point of this field anyway? Is it anything other than a duplicate of the birthplace information? I haven't seen a single instance where the factoid was actually sourced, and if it were sourced it would read "Citizenship". Is there any reason not to simply remove the field altogether? —Centrx→talk • 07:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I cannot comment on why the field (I assume you are referring to "Nationality") is present as I did not create the infobox. But I take it that because a player's nationality is relevant, it's information. And an infobox is a box that contains just that — information! The reason why you are adamant on removing it is arbitrary as you are overwhelmingly in the minority.--Downwards 22:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
The nationality remains. The only thing that does not remain is the flag. The flag is the issue; nationality and the superficiality of infobox factoids is a separate issue. —Centrx→talk • 02:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Add to the protected site

This is an interwiki to the Macedonian Wikipedia's corresponding article: mk:Шаблон:Информациона кутија за НБА играч

Done. —Centrx→talk • 20:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nationality

I had to unlink the "Nationality" field, because the common terms for most nationalities do not link directly to articles about that nationality, but rather to disambiguation pages -- see American, German, etc. I also updated the /doc example to show the correct method of linking an individual's nationality. --Russ (talk) 21:39, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nickname parameter

Do we really need this field in the infobox? And at the top of the box at that? I remember nicknames were removed from {{Infobox Football biography}} because there was a tendency for overkill, and nicknames, unlike other infobox parameters like height and place of birth, are fluid and the notability can be questionable. For example, Vince Carter has seven listed - "Air Canada" is no longer relevant, "Half Man, Half Season" is an insult based on a nickname, he hasn't been called "Vinsanity" in years, and "VC" are his initials and I'm not sure if they really qualify as a nickname. If a nickname is truly notable, i.e. "Shaq" then it can be mentioned in the text. Otherwise, something as subjective and arguable as nickname shouldn't be in the article, let alone in the infobox. --Mosmof (talk) 15:37, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Based on lack of interest/objections, I have decided to be WP:BOLD and make the edit. --Mosmof (talk) 06:00, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
There is a need for the nickname, because often players get called only by their nicknames by the TV announcers, such as Glen Davis, who is always called "Big Baby". ● 8~Hype @ 17:48, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
As I mentioned above, if the nickname is notable enough, why not just mention it in the text? Why are we treating a fluid, often arbitrary quality the same way we treat truly objective and (more or less) permanent attributes? --Mosmof (talk) 22:29, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
8-Hype, I wish you hadn't re-inserted the parameter without discussing it here. Let me see if I can do a better job of explaining why it really doesn't belong in the infobox:
  1. The Glen Davis example you cite is really an exception that proves the rule - he is a rare player whose nickname is so strongly tied to his identity. For most players, nicknames are used, if at all, in passing.
  2. There's no standard for nicknames - you can argue about a player's real height (we all know Garnett isn't 6'11" and Iverson is shorter than his listed 6'0"), but each player has an official listed height, and that's what the media, and by extension Wikipedia, goes by. NBA doesn't have a similar standard for nicknames.
  3. Some nicknames are more important than others. We agree that "Big Baby" is closely identified with Glen Davis, but the association isn't so strong that it's not a semi-official like "Magic Johnson" or "Nenê". The problem is, there's no metric to determine the importance of nicknames, except for the above "official" nicknames.
  4. Some players have many nicknames. Some players have none that's widely used. Again, there's no standard to determine which is the most important nickname, or whether a nickname is important enough to cite. "Air Canada" was widely used early in Vince Carter's career, but that's obviously not his nickname any more. Michael Jordan has gone by "MJ" or "Air" or "Mike" or "His Airness" or "G.O.A.T.". Amare Stoudemire has his S.T.A.T., but who really uses that? And is the "Hellboy" notable just because that's what Charles Barkley called him, even though it's hardly used?
To be clear, the answers to the questions above aren't that important. The point I'm trying to make is that infobox items are objective, inarguable facts that are easily verifiable, and you can't say that about nicknames. --Mosmof (talk) 16:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
LOL @ Charles Barkley. Alright, do whatever you feel is right. I apologize. ● 8~Hype @ 16:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't actually feel as strongly as I probably come off above - I just figured it doesn't need to be there, and it's a minor magnet for vandalism and content disputes. But thanks for responding. --Mosmof (talk) 04:35, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese Basketball Association

Hi, until "Infobox CBA Player" is developed, I will try to use this template for Chinese Basketball Association players. Thanks. --Mr Accountable (talk) 19:44, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually: In terms of meters and centimeters, kilograms, Chinese names, national team status, birth province and birth city, and NBA draft status, I just went ahead and started Template:Infobox CBA Player. TY. --Mr Accountable (talk) 20:02, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Boldface on team name

The boldface on team name, I think, is unnecessary. The team name is basically on the first line of the players' articles. If one would brother to look at it for a second, one can see the team name clearly. Chris! ct 18:20, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

The thing that is important though: The team name has to be recognized at first go. Just like the ESPN player pages, who not only have the team logo, but also the team colors on a player's profile. Also the NBA.com pages have a team logo on the player's page for better recognition. But as logos are not allowed, a bold face seems very suitable. Another idea is to add team colors the background of the respective or complete box, with the team name in the team's second color (just like ESPN). ● 8~Hype @ 18:37, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
I think adding team color might be a good alternative. But how are we going to do that? Chris! ct 02:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Official profile

I added "official profile" to the infobox, but it should only be shown if a player is in the NBA, as links to people who are not in the NBA do not exist. Could somebody please help and edit it so that "official profile" is shown only if the infobox includes "league = NBA (or National Basketball Association"? Thank you in advance. ● 8~Hype @ 13:37, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I tried to do that and it seems to work but since I’m unfamiliar with ParserFunctions, I’m not sure if it’s as efficient as possible. How about restricting {{{league}}} to "NBA"? It would make the logic easier, and I don’t see much good in having "National Basketball Association" as another case. —LOL (talk) 06:17, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I have restricted the league parameter to NBA. At one point, I tried to be WP:Bold and deleted the parameter based on the fact that this template is for NBA players (as the template name suggests). But since I am not sure if other non-NBA basketball players use this template, I have restored it for the moment. What do people think. --Chris! ct 20:09, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
There are definitely former NBA players who have moved to another league. Since I can't find an infobox for basketball players outside the NBA, do you think this infobox can be generalized with the league field? —LOL (talk) 02:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to remove the league field's restriction to "NBA" for now because players like Rafael Araujo are no longer in the NBA.
I noticed a problem with the link for Manu Ginóbili. His NBA profile is at www.nba.com/playerfile/emanuel_ginobili — notice that the URL uses his full first name and omits the acute accent. His URL does not match the article name, and thus fails. The same issue would apply for players whose native-language names include diacritics or non-English characters, mainly Eastern Europeans. — Dale Arnett (talk) 22:32, 16 April 2008 (UTC) (Update: Decided to add direct link after all.)
Update: The problem is with Template:NBA-profile-infobox. It doesn't recognize the fact that a player's NBA URL will not necessarily match his name exactly. BTW, It's not just an Eastern European problem — for example, it's also a problem with many names in Romance languages. — Dale Arnett (talk) 22:40, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for posting about this problem. I noticed it too when 8-Hype copypasted this section into the WikiProject's talk page, so read my response at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association#Template:Infobox NBA Player for a solution. —LOL (talk) 22:53, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

Because there is currently an edit war over the data in this infobox at LeBron James, I need to know: Is there a way that source info (i.e. ref tags) for such items as height and weight can be incorporated into this template? -- JeffBillman (talk) 17:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)