Template talk:Infobox Korean name

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See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Korean) regarding the use of this template. --Jiang 07:55, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] North Korean version

Per the discussion referenced by Jiang above, an alternate template has been created for North Korean topics in which the order of RR and MR is reversed. It is located at Template:Koreanname north image. -- Visviva 02:01, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

This has since been superseded by this template, using "context=north". -- Visviva 13:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Korean name table templates

moved to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean)

[edit] new templates needed

could someone make a template for koreanruler (with only one name, no birthname)? some ruler articles use the generic koreanname infobox, & hanja should be restored for those with a more specialized template. i feel strongly that hanja should only be included where relevant & helpful to the general english-speaking audience, & hangul should be enough as a local name reference in the vast majority of korea-related articles. it might be a good idea to make a hangul+hanja template to use when necessary, but hanja can always be discussed in the article body in those minority of cases.

i will replace the generic with the ruler template where necessary, though it is a lot of work. since i'm a relative newbie, i'd appreciate someone here quickly making the template, but i will do it myself otherwise. Appleby 05:43, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean) for a list of Korea-related templates, and use its talk pages for discussion. Appleby 18:32, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Added explicit width to first column

By specifying a width for the first column as well, the second column is able to expand when there is a wider image, so that it's now a minimum of 135 pixels instead of exactly 135 pixels. Also, this modification allows longer captions to wrap at the width of the image. In the previous setup, the whole infobox expanded in width so the caption appeared on one line.

I'm fairly certain that this doesn't have any undesireable side effects. Feel free to revert if it causes problems and then I'll need to make some kind of modifications to Japanese General Government Building, Seoul. Canadiana 04:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

That worked for Netscape 7.2, but MSIE 6.0 can't handle a cell width and an align=right in the same cell, so I changed some more things, including getting rid of the explicit width in both places and now it works in both Netscape and IE. That's it. I'm not touching in anymore. Canadiana 02:14, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your hard work. -- Visviva 04:27, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Context attribute

Having long been annoyed with the need to maintain two separate name tables, {{koreanname}} and {{koreanname north}}, I have added a "context" attribute to this template. If the context is set to "north" (or "n" or "nk" or "dprk"), this template will display in the manner of {{koreanname north}} . Otherwise, it will display in the usual way. That means that any implementations of Template:Koreanname north can now be replaced with {{koreanname|context=north|...}}.

This will also allow for flexible implementations in the event that Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean) is ever changed to provide for additional contexts. It might in fact be wise to add "context=south" to name tables for South Korean topics, in the event that we ever depart from using SK as the default context. -- Visviva 08:58, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New image syntax

Hi all,

The image/text field specified by {{{image}}} can still be used, but should be considered deprecated in favor of a new syntax, {{{img}}} / {{{caption}}} / {{{width}}}. This will eliminate many of the idiosyncrasies in formatting that have occurred with the old syntax, while still allowing a reasonable degree of customization.

In detail:

  • img specifies the image name, i.e. the ABC in [[Image:ABC]]
  • caption (optional) specifies the caption and alt text.
  • width (optional) specifies the image width in pixels, i.e. the DEF in DEFpx. Default is 250.

Old syntax (most common approach):
|image=[[Image:Foo.jpg|thumb|width|caption]]

New syntax:
|img=Foo.jpg
|width=width
|caption=caption

I think this is an improvement, although I'm not likely to rush out and change the hundreds of existing implementations to the new way. Comments welcome. -- Visviva 08:44, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Autotagging

I've added some code so that now:

This should streamline things a bit, since making a request just requires leaving a field blank, and the request is removed automatically as soon as it is filled. I am puzzled by one thing, though; I feel sure that there are some templates out there with blank "rr" and "mr" fields, but there's nothing in Category:Wikipedia articles needing romanized Korean. Are we really so fortunate, or did I mis-code something? -- Visviva 05:14, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

There's a couple there now; maybe the DB is just running a little slow today. -- Visviva 05:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name tag

I noticed how there is Template:Chinese name and Template:Japanese name, both used at the tops of articles where the last name comes first. Is there one for Korean names? Should there be one? SKS2K6 05:59, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Probably. But if we want to use the same title, we need to fix all of these first. -- Visviva 08:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, that's done. Say hi to Template:Korean name. -- Visviva 13:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italics & color

Couple of thoughts:

  • On Template talk:Koreanname north, which is now superseded by this template, it was suggested that a red title bar would be more suited to the North Korean context. Does this seem reasonable? It might be nice to have a bit more of a distinction between the two contexts.
  • Should the romanizations be in italics by default? Most transliterations elsewhere on Wikipedia are, and after all they are non-English words.

Responses? -- Visviva 05:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

In the article text, using italics to display foreign words helps readers to identify them as such. In the box, they appear isolated and are (sort of) explicitly marked as transcriptions, so the typeface doesn't matter. If you prefer italics, go ahead. Wikipeditor 23:39, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I remember having used italics for English words that appear in the box like so:
  • Hangul: ν•œκΈ€
  • Hanja: none (see article)
  • RR: Hangul or Han-geul
Wikipeditor 23:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Standardizing name

Are there any objections to a gradual migration of calls to this template to use the alias Template:Infobox Korean name? -- Visviva 05:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fonts

The fonts in the hanja and hangul fields are showing up strangely when it says "none," such as at Buldak. Badagnani 06:51, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

This is due to the use of language-coding, which causes the Roman text to be displayed as if it were Hangul/Hanja. It would be possible to turn this off specifically for the word "none," but I don't think it can be fixed systematically (there's no way for the template to detect the kind of text that is being passed through it). -- Visviva 08:45, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Marking an English comment as Korean is obviously as wrong as it would be ugly (but correct) to mark romanisations as ko-Latn. Using 
hanja = </span>none
seems to work me. Perhaps it is somehow deprecated in terms of HTML/XML syntax as it does not open a new span, but if there is nothing wrong with using it, please tell me. Wikipeditor 11:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
That's quite an ingenious solution! At any rate, I have now fixed the code so that if "hanja=none" it will render correctly; however, any other English comments will still need a solution such as you suggest. -- Visviva 12:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New template

I have rewritten this template - {{User:Edene/Sandboxes/01}}. I've also documented what's been changed and included some examples. Please feel free to poke holes and tell me what you think. eDenE 02:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I have replace the template with my version. If you find any problems, please revert back to the old one and let me know the problem. Thanks. eDenE 13:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Context North isn't working as it should: it should re-order and rename the language fields (see Kim Jong-il for an example of this). Had to revert to double-check and show you what I mean. Unless, of course, that was an intentional change. PC78 22:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, the context problem has been fixed. I seperated a portion to subpage and forgot to pass the context parameter. Regarding the order, is there any reason to put mr first for North Korea? eDenE 23:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
I believe that's what they use in NK, so yes. PC78 23:16, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes, McCune-Reischauer is the official system in North Korea. I fixed this problem as well. Thank you as usual! eDenE 23:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - What was the reason for "rewriting" the template? Also, please restore CCF as the color for the top bar pending actual discussion of this sweeping change, thanks. Badagnani 06:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
    • I'd have to agree about the color; the rewrite in general is great, much more streamlined, but the the default color is rather critical to the visual impact of the table (and to distinguishing it clearly from the surrounding text). -- Visviva 09:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
      • I've reverted back to the new colours for now, Badagnani's edits meant the table was showing up with no colours at all, which is hardly an improvement. Perhaps a change back to the old purple is in order, but the new colours are absolutely fine by me. For what it's worth, there was some discussion about the rewrite of this template over at WT:KOREA. PC78 15:29, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - No good--restore the original color pending discussion. You may not change colors unilaterally, without discussion. The "new color" is too similar to that used for China-related articles and the old color has been used for quite some time, and is well associated with Korea-related articles. Badagnani 17:24, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Reverted again; the title bar needs some colour, so can you please go back to the purple that was being used previously? PC78 17:47, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - The template is even more confusingly written than before, but, yes, of course, I did go in and replaced the sky blue with the three-letter code for the original color. Why don't you figure out why it didn't work rather than revert my change again and again? Let's please edit constructively, thanks. Badagnani 18:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
    • With respect, it's not my job to go around cleaning up after you - if you can't figure out how to revert properly, then perhaps you should leave it to others. Your objections have been noted and can be discussed, though I don't understand why you're being so hostile to the recent updates. I haven't seen any China-related articles that use similar colours to the new version of this template - can you please provide some examples? PC78 18:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay! I rewrote the template to reduce its complexity. This was a good change, because I could merge {{Koreannames}} into here. I really don't think the new one is more confusing. You might want to compare it with the old Koreannames. Regarding the colour, I proposed this new template on 17th and there were no objections regarding changes. However, there haven't been any discussions or consensus over the new colours (#cbdcff and #ffcbf0). Therefore, I'm going to propose colours (including #CCCCFF) and have a poll to decide which colours to use. Thanks for your comments, Badagnani. For now, I changed the default colour back to #CCF. eDenE 18:39, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

  • The new colours are absolutely fine with me, unless it can be demonstrated that there is some kind of problem with using them (besides "I don't like it"). Using red for North Korea has been suggested before (see above), without opposition. Edene: your last edit to the template means that the colour can't be manually changed. Is there some way to fix it?PC78 18:45, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

  • Strong keep original color for South Korea-related articles. I also feel there's no need to have different colors for South and North Korean articles (as many articles are relevant to both), but if the decision to do so is made, I support keeping the original color for South Korea-related articles. I maintain that it was wrong, without discussion, to unilaterally impose the sky blue color instead of the color we formerly used with no problem. The sky blue is too similar to the light gray-blue color used for China-related articles and over a period of years this light purplish color has become widely associated with Korea-related articles. Badagnani 18:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
    • I still don't know what you mean about the colour being too similar to that used by China-related articles. So far as I can tell, they use the same (or similar) light purple that this one uses. Can you please provide some examples? PC78 18:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - No, we created the "Chinesename" template modeled exactly on the "Koreanname" template, with the difference that the bar on top went from light purple to light greyish-blue. See Zha cai. So even though those boxes are very similar, the purple - blue distinction has worked really well to distinguish between articles that are primarily Korea-oriented and ones that are primarily China-oriented. Badagnani 18:58, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
  • OK then, I was looking at the template used in Mao Zedong. PC78 19:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - I don't know what that template is, but I don't think it's widely used. Right now mostly "Chinese" and "Chinesename" are used, and they both have the greyish-blue color. That one might be a custom-made one just for that article. Badagnani 19:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Let's stop here. I'm going to propose new sets of 3 colours soon and let people decide which colours to use. Because this template is mainly maintained by WikiProject Korea and new colours will be used for other Korea-related templates as well, the poll will be placed in WT:KOREA page. eDenE 19:07, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Please visit Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea#New_colours_for_WikiProject_Korea. eDenE 21:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move to Template:Infobox Korean name?

I'm going to echo Visviva's suggestion above to rename this template. {{Korean name}} is a completely different template altogether, so it would make sense to give this template a more distinctive name to avoid confusion. If need be, I believe a bot could be used to update articles with the new template name. Any thoughts? PC78 12:50, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Agree. May help to avoid confusion. Mumun η„‘ζ–‡ 13:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Agree. Confusion avoid to help May. Wikimachine 02:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Agree because of all the times I've put {{Korean name}} when I meant {{Koreanname}}. cab 02:21, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
One or two others have agreed with this proposal, and so far there have been no objections. I'll give it a few more days, then proceed with the move. PC78 00:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Y Done. A bot has been busy updating articles, so everything should now be using the new template name. PC78 21:19, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A few additions to the template

I've added fields for "othername1" and "othername2" to the infobox, which allow for up to two extra names that aren't covered by any of the other titles. See Hwang Jin-i and Gu, Prince Imperial Hoeun for a few examples of this new feature in action. I'll update the doc when I get around to it! :) PC78 00:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fonts still showing up strangely

The Latin-alphabet fonts for the "hanja" and "hangul" fields are still showing up in some kind of non-standard font (similar to the Latin fonts that come in CJK packages). Please fix this so they show up in the same (standard) font we have the rest of Wikipedia in. Badagnani 19:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

This non-standard font can be seen in the "hanja" field of Sujebi. Badagnani 19:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea what you mean. It looks fine to me. PC78 03:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Whatever you see, the fonts for the "hangul" and "hanja" fields are showing up as Asian-style Latin fonts (see the two screenshots). This should not happen at WP and this bug needs to be corrected promptly. Similar requests at other Asian templates have been ignored for months.

Badagnani 03:51, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, it doesn't show up like that on my screen. Are you sure this isn't a browser problem or something? I can post comparison screenshots if need be, but it's late and will have to wait until tommorrow. In any case, I can't see the problem being with this template, especially if other templates are similary affected. PC78 04:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The other template in which this problem occurs is Template:Zh-s. Badagnani 04:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Here's a couple of comparison screenshots from my computer:

Fontproblemscreenshot1.jpg
Fontproblemscreenshot2.jpg

Since I don't get the same problem as you, I strongly suspect that this is an external problem. AFAIK there's nothing in the template code that should affect the font style anyway. PC78 13:02, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Great, it looks fine for you. But it needs to work for everyone without showing up as a strange, non-standard, "Asian-style" font. This needs to be addressed and fixed promptly, not waiting months with no response like the other template. Badagnani 18:21, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

This is hardly a matter of supreme importance that "needs to be addressed and fixed promptly". In any case, you're not likely to find a solution here. Perhaps you should try the village pump? PC78 00:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Six months is way too long for something as simple as this to go unaddressed. If you don't have the programming skills to do so, then your negative comment isn't really helpful. Badagnani 03:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I've already given you my advice, but if you don't want it then fine. Your trivial concerns are really no problem of mine. Sit here and wait another six months, and see where it gets you. With an attitude like yours it's a wonder anyone should want to help you. PC78 13:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

That is an un-Wikipedian comment and attitude. The weirdly showing up font is problematic not just to "me" but to our community and encyclopedia as a whole, as it looks unprofessional. Badagnani (talk) 17:11, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for the super late interruption. However, what Badagnani is experiencing is totally normal. That happens because for that specific region of text, the language setting is set to Korean, and your browser tries to use Korean font. Sorry, but this is not a bug and won't be addressed. eDenE 16:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)