Template talk:Infobox Flag

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Contents

[edit] Field names

Is it possible to have an alternate version with the commonwealth spelling of colour? It seems weird that the flag of Canada has an incorrect (Canadian English) spelling on it. -- Earl Andrew - talk 05:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll try it out soon. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Can someone think of a spelling-neutral alternative for "color"? PoccilScript 01:09, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we could do "Elements" and I can do a brief sum-up, I will have the color information there but not in it's current format. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 01:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
That's a rather good idea. Perhaps it will cover patterns as well as colors. PoccilScript 01:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes it will. Here is the example I will use for the Canadian flag article "A red, white, red tricolor with a red maple leaf in the center." For Belarus, it would be "red and green bicolor with the national ornament charged at the hoist." That is how simple most will be. All symbolism of the different parts will be dealt with in the article itself. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 01:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Given this evolution towards using this field for a brief description of the design, would not a better tag than Elements be Design? The intent is no longer just a list of colors or elements used, but these together with how they interrelate; i.e., the design. --ScottMainwaring 05:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Since there were no objections, I went ahead and made the change. --ScottMainwaring 07:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Design

To me, the "Design" section of the infobox is not good in this case, as it is not an option, you must use it, which shouldn't be like that. Also, the design can clearly be seen on the image of the flag, and the design is mentioned in the article. A•N•N•A hi! 01:35, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

To a vexillologist (like I am), we can tell about said designs. But, the main point of these articles and the infoboxes is to explain what the elements of the flag are. So, with the infobox, it makes it quick. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, Scott made the changes. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 03:48, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
OK. That's fine. I'm a vexillologist, too. A•N•N•A hi! 22:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New layout

The layout is fine, but I just think having 2 or more flags in one infobox is pretty huge, especially for many flag articles are just stubs now. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

But, Zscout370, some countries have several versions of their national flag. Since they are all versions of the national flag, they should all be listed under "Flag of (country)". In other words, to take an example, the civil ensign of Israel is just as much a national flag of Israel as is the one flying over that county's capitol. To be complete, the Flag of Israel article should cover both flags, and the infobox should allow them to be easily compared.
As far as stubs are concerned, are you saying there should be some kind of "stub" version of the infobox, so that it doesn't dwarf the text in the article itself? I'm not following your logic here. I think the solution in the stub case is to lengthen the article text, not to truncate the infobox. --ScottMainwaring 08:23, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I think I am having a hard time understanding your definition of "national" flag. When I think of national flag, I always think of the flag that is used for the Olympics, UN, state functions (with a few exceptions, like Taiwan). I know many South American countries have a "government" flag. I consider that to be the state flag (just one notch below national flag). Some of the flags you consider national, are just ensigns that can easily be covered without an infobox (unless it is a case where the national flag is the national ensign, like the United States). I have not taken a look yet at the Israeli article, but I probably won't make any changes there (since I don't have a lot on the Israeli flag at my home). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 08:50, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Here's how the Dictionary of Vexillology at Flags of the World defines national flag:

  • (1) A flag that represents an independent state, especially a nation-state.
  • (2) A flag of a formerly independent state or of a non-independent national group (see also ‘tribal flag’)
  • (3) That flag which is generally thought of as representing a state when specific circumstances of display are not considered – for example, some flag books might give a plain tricolour with stars as the national flag of Venezuela, whilst others may show the flag with arms [...].
  • Please note that in some countries the national flag is available for use by all citizens. In other countries, however, the national flag is restricted to official use by law or custom, with a variant of it as a civil flag for use by private citizens. Please note also, that the national flag may have other variants with specific uses on land and/or sea, and that these are herein listed separately according to type (see also those flags listed under ‘ensign’, as well as ‘civil flag’, ‘jack’, ‘state flag’ and ‘war flag’).

The primary definition, (1), is the one I'm using: a national flag is a flag that represents a nation. A civil flag, government ensign, or war flag are all varieties of national flag in this sense. The tertiary definition, (3), is the one you're using: of the national flags that represent a nation, the one that is used by default (I think this includes "the Olympics, UN, state functions" that you mention). It's from this sense that we can talk of "the national flag of Japan" as if there is only one (the hinomaru) and not three.

I think the present infobox layout (and by extension, scheme for a "Flag of (Country)" article), well represents the situation, in all its complexity: the overall box is titled "Flag of (County)" because all the flags listed within are in fact national flags of that country. However, not all are "created equal" so to speak: they are listed in an order that puts the default flag first. --ScottMainwaring 17:00, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am using definition three. One thing I like the infobox is that if you want information to be excluded, then it can be excluded. But I think it should be an article by article case, since it seems what one country would consider their national flag, others might consider a few to be it. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
About the infobox itself, I have a concern. In the names section, do you think instead of shifting multiple names from left to right, can you make it where the second name goes below the second name. Even on a 1024x768 pixel monitor, I personally think the infobox used on the Japanese flag article seems to smash all of the lead section together. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
You can put a 
<br>
in front of the Morenames value to accomplish this. But that turns out not to help the Japan article; I think the problem is due to ANNAfoxlover's edit to Template:National flag entry increasing the flag size. I think the infobox would look better — especially if it includes multiple flags — with a smaller image width/height for the flag. --ScottMainwaring 19:28, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Since most flags are SVG's anyways, we can shrink the size of the box and if users want to see details, they can just click the flag image. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:33, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move

I need a place to move this template to. The title "Infobox national flag" gives the impression that the template is only for national flags. I would move it to "FlagBox", which is currently being used by a template for deletion, but I would like some more simple suggestions. ANNAfoxlover 21:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification

My edit here was mistaken as at first glance I thought this edit by ANNAfoxlover had changed the thumbnail size rather than the table size. 240px is fairly standard for infoboxes, though I wouldn't object a higher size such as 300px considering the design parameter value generally takes up several lines. –Pomte 06:22, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I just reduced the line height, so the text fields don't take up so much space. The template width, as it is at the moment, is good. - 52 Pickup 10:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category

This template currently places articles in the category "{{{type}}} flags". In general, these are national flags and are places in Cat:National flags. However, when the flag is not a national flag, there is often no appropriate category "XXX flags", and the page only belongs in something like "Flags of Australia". I think it would be better to remove the category from the template, and leave categorisation to the normal part of the article. JPD (talk) 12:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Done. --ScottMainwaring (talk) 20:42, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal to rename this template

I just wondered whether we really need the word "Infobox" in the template name. Would it not be clearer to have this template at Template:National flag? Green Giant (talk) 11:27, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually I have noticed that there are a large number of flag articles using this template for entities which are not nations. Would it not be more appropriate to rename as Template:Infobox flag so that it could become a generic template rather than being restricted to national flags? Green Giant (talk) 11:36, 20 January 2008 (UTC)